Musky Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='47110' date='Aug 18 2007, 12:11 PM']With respect, this is utter cobblers. For a looong time after the CBS takeover, Ps and Js continued to be made using stockpiled parts, on the same production lines, with the same machinery, by the same employees who had been there for years. Things only started to deteriorate when there were wholesale changes to the process aound '73.[/quote] Actually, I really don't think it is. CBS [i]did[/i] look for ways to cut corners, including Indian rather than Brazilain rosewood fingerboards, plastic fingerboard markers, messing with contours (something that was probably most visible on telecasters, particularly changes to the neck pocket notch) and poly finishes. And although Jazz didn't get the 3 bolt treatment until '73, the telebass and guitars got it in '71. The same machinery and personnel may have been involved but a huge increase in output accompanied the CBS takeover. It may have been pure snobbery, but even in the early seventies this 'utter cobblers' was common currency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 I'm talking about Ps and Js, not Tele guitars or basses. R&D was not CBS' stong point. The things you've mentioned (rosewood, inlays, etc) do not affect the playability of the instruments. The QC may have slipped a bit as the volume increased, but nowhere near the amount you suggest. Having said that, as long as some people are under the impression that Fender started to turn out dogs as soon as CBS took over, it means the rest of us can pick up great basses for reasonable money. And for that, I thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 No you're quite right, it would be ridiculous to suggest that quality somehow plummeted the day CBS took over, and that wasn't my intention. More that it was a process that reached it's nadir by the early eighties, and to be fair Fender were actually using poorer quality woods just before CBS took over (something that CBS would inevitably take the can for, in some punters eyes). Having said that, I've seen enough early 70's basses to realise that quality control wasn't up to todays standards, for instance. There are plenty of nice ones, but plenty of dogs as well - hence the comment about buying blind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzibass Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 [quote name='ste_m3' post='46565' date='Aug 16 2007, 06:59 PM']Well, I walked into a small time local music shop. And on the wall he had hanging up a really nicely mojo'd 77 Presicion, so naturally i and him got speaking. The 77 was up at a grand. and next to it was a CAR mexiacan precision (i know, i thought these were all japanese too, but the headstock deffinatly said mexican) So, i pulled down the '77 and started to tinkle around. The first thing i noticed was that this thing was bloody heavy! but also, this thing was a nightmare to play! I mean, i know setups are essential, but you would have thought that it would have had at least one setup in its 40 year life! It was completly un-slappable, and any chord i tried to play just came out with a sound that my ears plain didnt like. The bassist/owner agreed. Then i pulled the Mexi down and started plonking, and the first thing i noticed was how bright the tone knob would let this go compared to the '77. (both had new roto rounds on) alas, i thought i was in for a twangy time, but on pulling the tone knob down it got just as deep and thumpy as the '77. Whats going on?! Chordal pieces chimed out, and slap pinged just how i like it. whats going on?! The only thing the 77' had in its favour was the fact that the neck was slightly faster (i think the edges on it were a bit rounder, although i didnt check, thats just from memory) so which would i have? Well, the '77 of course, it was sunburst and worn away in places. That makes a good bass, right?[/quote] Scuse for being dim - but was is 'CAR'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Candy Apple Red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) [quote name='bass_ferret' post='47041' date='Aug 18 2007, 12:26 AM']Yes - why slap a precision. If you want to slap - get a slappers bass. Personally I think slap is a busted flush and only of use in an 80's tribute band but if you have to do it - thats what Jazz basses are for (or Alembic, GB, Status, Musicman and anyone I've left out that might be offended).[/quote] Plenty of Guys Slap on a Precision..... Nice new strings...sounds great , and punchy... Check out Freddie Washington... a master at slapping on a Presicion...! As for just in 80'S bands....uumm Most guy's here will tell you..todays working Bassist needs to have all the styles up there sleeves.. You never know whats thrown at you when you turn up at a gig/show/session/dep whatever. Ok if you just do one style..and that's what you wanna do..or if thats what you known for... but that limits your options for work. Every function band in the world seems to do 'Car Wash' ..in just about every key but the original...!! Oh well Mr Miller and Co might as well hang up there boots then.... Garry Edited August 20, 2007 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul, the Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 (edited) [quote name='paul, the' post='46707' date='Aug 17 2007, 02:53 AM']To be honest though, I don't really like the modern tone[/quote] Except for Fodera basses, they make me as giddy as a schoolgirl. Oh and [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=K-9SZ3vwpEw"]US Spectors[/url] Edited August 20, 2007 by paul, the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Slap a P-bass? Why not? The Brothers Johnson from the 70s did it, and very well too. Having said that, I dislike slap, and do not like others slapping on my basses. Petty, maybe, butr there you are. As to the vintage thing, I wouldn't ever waste my money. Even pre-CBS Fenders are no better or worse than current models, by any reasonable comparison. And current 3-bolt re-issues are as stable as their 4-bolt partners. The idea wasn't wrong, just CBS-era Fender's implementation. CBS did not invent the three-bolters, they merely introduced it. Done correctly, it's a perfectly good joint, and Leo was rightly proud of it, for it was his, and he took it on right through to G&L. I would stack my 2004 MIM P against [u]any[/u] old Precision, and it would likely be as good, by any objective comparison. And I'll mojo mine the [b]proper[/b] way. By gigging it for a decade or two... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 [quote name='lowdown' post='47603' date='Aug 20 2007, 10:51 AM']Plenty of Guys Slap on a Precision..... Nice new strings...sounds great , and punchy... Check out Freddie Washington... a master at slapping on a Presicion...! As for just in 80'S bands....uumm Most guy's here will tell you..todays working Bassist needs to have all the styles up there sleeves.. You never know whats thrown at you when you turn up at a gig/show/session/dep whatever. Ok if you just do one style..and that's what you wanna do..or if thats what you known for... but that limits your options for work. Every function band in the world seems to do 'Car Wash' ..in just about every key but the original...!! Oh well Mr Miller and Co might as well hang up there boots then.... Garry[/quote] Of course you can slap a Precision - but if a newbie on here asked for recommendations for a bass for slap I doubt if anyone will suggest a P bass - other basses do it better. Probably the only bass you cant slap would be a Gibbo with a big fat bucker right at the end of the neck. Once upon a time you could not turn on the radio or watch TOTP without someone slapping and I must admit I did it myself in the 80's. I like to watch Jools and he has a very varied line up of acts - even if some of them are crap. The only slapping on the last series was Paul Simons bassist IIRC. Sure if you want to get every gig you can you need to be able to do it, even if it is only required for one song in 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 [quote name='lowdown' post='47603' date='Aug 20 2007, 10:51 AM']todays working Bassist needs to have all the styles up there sleeves.. You never know whats thrown at you when you turn up at a gig/show/session/dep whatever. Ok if you just do one style..and that's what you wanna do..or if thats what you known for... but that limits your options for work.[/quote] I dunno... I've got through my whole bass-playing life without knowing how (or wanting) to slap. It depends on where you want to take it, I suppose. I *do* know that the day I find myself slappin' out Car Wash will be the day before I sell all my gear and take up the trumpet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='47998' date='Aug 20 2007, 09:50 PM']I dunno... I've got through my whole bass-playing life without knowing how (or wanting) to slap. It depends on where you want to take it, I suppose. I *do* know that the day I find myself slappin' out Car Wash will be the day before I sell all my gear and take up the trumpet. [/quote] Funny you should say that.....[Trumpet] I started on Trumpet..playing in Glenn Miller Bands... Then when i was given the chance to play Bass in a band doing'Car wash' I was there...even though i kept arsing up the 'Slap break'... 30 years on and i still arse it up..... Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I always preferred playing that particular 'bass break' fingerstyle, always cut through nicer through a PA. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 [quote name='Sibob' post='48108' date='Aug 21 2007, 12:44 AM']I always preferred playing that particular 'bass break' fingerstyle, always cut through nicer through a PA. Si[/quote] Interesting you should say that... I watched Rose Royce in the Early 80's in a Cabaret club i was working in watford. And the Bass Player [original] did not slap the break with his thumb..... He patted it with his fingers...hard on the dusty end of the neck... There you go...that should start a riot..!! Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 Homer is right about the mojo, too. To me, mojo is wear and tear. Fingerboard crud uncleaned for decades is just that - dirt. And as someone who services other people's instruments, I can tell you that it's not nice. Buying a dirty instrument shouldn't cost more money, but less. It's simply not been cared for. A cruddy bass is likely to be exactly that, due to lack of attention. As an example, no-one in their right mind would want to actually play Jamerson's Precision. He abused it thoroughly, and despite the great music he made on it, it would not be a good bass now. If you're lucky enough to pick up well-cared-for vintage stuff, and it works for you, well and good. But a dirty old bass is just that, and, unless you're very lucky, it will only ever be that. *Particular dislike* Dirty maple fingerboards - yuk! They're supposed to look clean! And, as they are far easier to keep clean, where's the excuse for not doing so? Keep your tools clean, people. You'll be so glad you did. Rant over, sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 [quote name='Telebass' post='48555' date='Aug 21 2007, 08:53 PM']*Particular dislike* Dirty maple fingerboards - yuk! They're supposed to look clean! And, as they are far easier to keep clean, where's the excuse for not doing so?[/quote] Umm... it's rock and roll, not a job interview. Love, The owner of two cruddy-looking but wonderfully-playing basses x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted August 21, 2007 Share Posted August 21, 2007 WaterOfTyne, shall we send you some links for nice trumpets, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 The major part of my rant was paying good money for someone else's muck...but I stick with the 'keep it clean' bit. An uncared-for, dirty instrument isn't rock'n'roll, it's bad maintenance and laziness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 And yes, I sound like a right boring old fart. So be it. Keep 'em clean! If nothing else, it will make your strings last longer. Dirt costs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul, the Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 [quote name='Telebass' post='48734' date='Aug 22 2007, 09:45 AM']And yes, I sound like a right boring old fart. So be it. Keep 'em clean! If nothing else, it will make your strings last longer. Dirt costs! [/quote] The dirt keeps the funk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 [quote name='paul, the' post='48934' date='Aug 22 2007, 01:26 PM']The dirt keeps the funk.[/quote] [i]'Right on, brutha.. if the s*ht fits, wear it!'[/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul, the Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) As is editing pictures on paint No offense intended on the launder stickler. Edited August 22, 2007 by paul, the Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telebass Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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