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Guest subaudio

Hey all

I had my second rehearsal with my new band on Double bass last night and I am loving it, we had more band members today, electric guitar and another acoustic guitar and I was struggling to be heard a bit, i am pulling on the strings quite hard, so I dont think it's a technique issue (could be wrong though), I was wondering if strings make a difference, the ones on my bass are still quite new, or if raising the action helps, although it is pretty high already, any advice would be greatfully received.

Edited by subaudio
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Guest subaudio

[quote name='TheRev' post='76003' date='Oct 18 2007, 02:09 PM']Use a louder amp?[/quote]


Hi Rev, it's all acoustic (apart from electric guitar), I have a pickup installed but am needing to get more projection and volume from the bass itself, without an amp, old school styley

Edited by subaudio
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Guest subaudio

[quote name='alexclaber' post='76021' date='Oct 18 2007, 02:50 PM']Experiment with where in the room you are standing to use the acoustics in your favour.

Alex[/quote]

Hi Alex, that makes sense, i'll give it a go, I have also read elsewhere about using the weight in your arm rather than a finger pluck, will try both.

Marti

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That is the problem once a double bass gets to compete with a loudish ensemble, the volume. As you stand next to the bass, the bass's maximum volume gives off from the front of the instrument and moves away from you. Volume does come off the back too but as you are finding, not enough. I used to sometimes shove my ear against the neck, a strange style!
As you have electric guitar and I assume drums, you may actually need a small amp for yourself. Raising the strings will give off more volume but will also make you change your playing style, possibly causing undue strain. I cannot comment about different string volumes as I've always used the same make of Thomastic strings.
If you haven't taken double bass lessons, even a few from an established player will possibly enlighten you on your technique.
Now you know why the Fender Precision became so popular, easier volume over drums and horns and finally, the bass player was HEARD. Whenever I watch those old big bands playing, I give respect to those hard working double bass players.





[quote name='subaudio' post='75917' date='Oct 18 2007, 10:07 AM']Hey all

I had my second rehearsal with my new band on Double bass last night and I am loving it, we had more band members today, electric guitar and another acoustic guitar and I was struggling to be heard a bit, i am pulling on the strings quite hard, so I dont think it's a technique issue (could be wrong though), I was wondering if strings make a difference, the ones on my bass are still quite new, or if raising the action helps, although it is pretty high already, any advice would be greatfully received.[/quote]

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Guest subaudio

[quote name='mybass' post='76040' date='Oct 18 2007, 03:45 PM']That is the problem once a double bass gets to compete with a loudish ensemble, the volume. As you stand next to the bass, the bass's maximum volume gives off from the front of the instrument and moves away from you. Volume does come off the back too but as you are finding, not enough. I used to sometimes shove my ear against the neck, a strange style!
As you have electric guitar and I assume drums, you may actually need a small amp for yourself. Raising the strings will give off more volume but will also make you change your playing style, possibly causing undue strain. I cannot comment about different string volumes as I've always used the same make of Thomastic strings.
If you haven't taken double bass lessons, even a few from an established player will possibly enlighten you on your technique.
Now you know why the Fender Precision became so popular, easier volume over drums and horns and finally, the bass player was HEARD. Whenever I watch those old big bands playing, I give respect to those hard working double bass players.[/quote]

Hi Mybass

That all makes good sense, I have had a few lessons, and may well get some more in a few months, I am buisy translating the theory into practicall band situation things, volume was fine as a three peice but with growing numbers I need something extra, I dont want to raise the strings as i will need to get adjusters fitted I asume and dont have the cash at the mo.

Know what you mean about the guys pre Fender in loud bands, I have a GK MB150 which is ideal but dont fancy carrying that and a double bass on the bus much :)

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I'm going to try to remember a quote i read by Billy Higgins (Jazz Drummer) it went something like this.
"You're supposed to make love to the drums not rape them, all the best horn players listen really hard to the bass, so you're not supposed to drown it out"
If more drummers took this simple bit of advice then the bass players down the generations since these type of drummers were around (although to be fair some still are, especially Americans) would have had less ball ache about being heard. And the dynamic range of the music being played would have been wider (LOUD [i][/i]and [i][/i] quiet) which in turn is more interesting, exciting for the listener etc etc.....
I've been told to turn up all my working life. I always reply "No, you turn down"
Jake

Edited by jakesbass
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Guest Jecklin

How high are your strings at the moment? (measure at the end of the fingerboard from its surface to the underside of the string)

What strings are they?

Raising strings may help quite a bit. Aswell as increasing the pressure on the bass top it also gives you a lot more space to get the string moving.

My group only plays entirely acoustically and it is so refreshing and enjoyable to have sound solely coming from bits of wood.

We are blessed with a drummer who understands volume (although it isn't specifically rhythm based music so there is a lot of space in the sound). None the less I got my strings taken up quite a bit (9mm on the g going to 15mm or so for the E) This is high fo a steel based string. The accepted standard is around 7 - 11 mm (G-E)

You don't necessarily need adjusters either:
It is possible to add a small shim under the bridge feet.

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Guest subaudio

[quote name='jakesbass' post='76072' date='Oct 18 2007, 04:39 PM']I'm going to try to remember a quote i read by Billy Higgins (Jazz Drummer) it went something like this.
"You're supposed to make love to the drums not rape them, all the best horn players listen really hard to the bass, so you're not supposed to drown it out"
If more drummers took this simple bit of advice then the bass players down the generations since these type of drummers were around (although to be fair some still are, especially Americans) would have had less ball ache about being heard. And the dynamic range of the music being played would have been wider (LOUD [i][/i]and [i][/i] quiet) which in turn is more interesting, exciting for the listener etc etc.....
I've been told to turn up all my working life. I always reply "No, you turn down"
Jake[/quote]

Hi Jake, great post, I think I need to adopt your standard reply, even playing electric bass in bands there is always an issue with the drummer or guitarist or both trying to drown out the singer, never could get my head around why a musician would want to do this.

Thinking back to the rehearsal, the vocalists were also struggling to be heard, the culprit i feel is again the electric guitarist (no drummer at the mo), I'll have a word with him at the next rehearsal.

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Guest subaudio

[quote name='merchant' post='76264' date='Oct 19 2007, 12:10 AM']How high are your strings at the moment? (measure at the end of the fingerboard from its surface to the underside of the string)

What strings are they?

Raising strings may help quite a bit. Aswell as increasing the pressure on the bass top it also gives you a lot more space to get the string moving.

My group only plays entirely acoustically and it is so refreshing and enjoyable to have sound solely coming from bits of wood.

We are blessed with a drummer who understands volume (although it isn't specifically rhythm based music so there is a lot of space in the sound). None the less I got my strings taken up quite a bit (9mm on the g going to 15mm or so for the E) This is high fo a steel based string. The accepted standard is around 7 - 11 mm (G-E)

You don't necessarily need adjusters either:
It is possible to add a small shim under the bridge feet.[/quote]

Hi Merchant

Not sure what strings they are rather embarasingly, I got them with the bass which was second hand.

The action I would say is deffinatly +10mm, I would say closer to 15 but will check.

Good news about the extenders, not sure why I didnt figure out about shims.

I know what you mean about being purely acoustic, we have a gig in December at a carbon neutral event, no lighting no amps no nothing but acoustic instruments, thus the post really as i want to make sure I can be heard.

We are auditioning drummers on monday so that should be fun

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Guest Jecklin

That event sounds wicked!!

For now I wouldn't worry about the string height. If it had been set low (around 7mm for all strings) It would be worth exploring.
It is amazing how a bass can project unamplified. Your next worry will be the crowd noise!!


Not only do heavy handed drummers and deaf guitarists need re-educating, but a crowd actually needs to listen, rather then stand there chatting. I digress.

some points to consider:

The problem I've encountered with electric guitarists is the high frequency harmonic content in the sound. If you get a drummer who has a bright kit (especially the cymbals) it could be trouble as they both occupy the same frequncy field so will compete to be heard. A darker sounding kit (often employed in jazz and acoustic music) is a solution

A smaller kick drum can help keep the low end clean, but a hard stomper will make any bass drum a cannon.


Good luck talking to the E' guitarist.

Thomas

Edited by Jecklin
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[quote name='subaudio' post='76338' date='Oct 19 2007, 09:08 AM']I know what you mean about being purely acoustic, we have a gig in December at a carbon neutral event, no lighting no amps no nothing but acoustic instruments, thus the post really as i want to make sure I can be heard.[/quote]
So, no problems with Mr 'Lectric Geetar for that one then :)

Wulf

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Guest subaudio

[quote name='wulf' post='76423' date='Oct 19 2007, 11:43 AM']So, no problems with Mr 'Lectric Geetar for that one then :)

Wulf[/quote]


I might tell him they're all like that :huh:

The gig is with these guys in case anyone's intrested.

[url="http://www.myspace.com/powerdownordie"]http://www.myspace.com/powerdownordie[/url]

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[quote name='subaudio' post='76334' date='Oct 19 2007, 08:56 AM']Hi Jake, great post, I think I need to adopt your standard reply, even playing electric bass in bands there is always an issue with the drummer or guitarist or both trying to drown out the singer, never could get my head around why a musician would want to do this.

Thinking back to the rehearsal, the vocalists were also struggling to be heard, the culprit i feel is again the electric guitarist (no drummer at the mo), I'll have a word with him at the next rehearsal.[/quote]
Hi Sub, the reason in my view musicians would want to do this is primarily one of ego which really good bass players, by their giving gesture of support cannot afford to have. That is also why so many bass players are producers because through said lack of ego, they have the ability to listen to the music for the [i]sake [/i]of the music. In my experience we have good ears too. Ultimately though its about the individual and when you get a band full of people with a good perspective on the music its to die for (I've been lucky and have been in some)
I'll give another quote which happens to be the best compliment I was ever given, Picture the scene.... I was in a dingy little pub in deepest darkest Kent working really just as a stop off to go across the channel for a couple of weeks in Germany, playing a mixture of Jazz and blues with a great Piano Man TJ Johnson (now hot on the London and European circuit) we were playing for beer and food and somewhere to sleep but nevertheless the audience were up for a party and we had a rocking good time (Pete Cotterill on drums, now sadly departed, one of the finest musicians I ever encountered, such a character he even had a Radio Four programme dedicated to his life) At the end of the gig this odd looking guy comes up and starts wittering on to us about being a local composer (we thought he was going to be a boring punter but he turned out to be really nice) he made little comments to all the band which they all seemed to appreciate, then he turned to me and said, "and you, what makes you a good bass player is, you play great lines and you've got no ego"
I was dumbstruck, his sincerity was obvious and never before or since has anyone said something so positive and insightful to me. I will remember it forever.
Hope you're still awake
Jake

Edited by jakesbass
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Guest subaudio

[quote name='jakesbass' post='76692' date='Oct 19 2007, 07:43 PM']Hi Sub, the reason in my view musicians would want to do this is primarily one of ego which really good bass players, by their giving gesture of support cannot afford to have. That is also why so many bass players are producers because through said lack of ego, they have the ability to listen to the music for the [i]sake [/i]of the music. In my experience we have good ears too. Ultimately though its about the individual and when you get a band full of people with a good perspective on the music its to die for (I've been lucky and have been in some)
I'll give another quote which happens to be the best compliment I was ever given, Picture the scene.... I was in a dingy little pub in deepest darkest Kent working really just as a stop off to go across the channel for a couple of weeks in Germany, playing a mixture of Jazz and blues with a great Piano Man TJ Johnson (now hot on the London and European circuit) we were playing for beer and food and somewhere to sleep but nevertheless the audience were up for a party and we had a rocking good time (Pete Cotterill on drums, now sadly departed, one of the finest musicians I ever encountered, such a character he even had a Radio Four programme dedicated to his life) At the end of the gig this odd looking guy comes up and starts wittering on to us about being a local composer (we thought he was going to be a boring punter but he turned out to be really nice) he made little comments to all the band which they all seemed to appreciate, then he turned to me and said, "and you, what makes you a good bass player is, you play great lines and you've got no ego"
I was dumbstruck, his sincerity was obvious and never before or since has anyone said something so positive and insightful to me. I will remember it forever.
Hope you're still awake
Jake[/quote]

Hi Jake

Great story, and good advice worth remembering.

Marti

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