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Vintage basses of tomorrow


paul, the
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[quote name='paul, the' post='6790' date='May 25 2007, 08:26 PM']According to these definitions...

9. representing the high quality of a past time: vintage cars; vintage movies.
11. being the best of its kind: They praised the play as vintage O'Neill.

2. Characterized by excellence, maturity, and enduring appeal; classic.

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What of today's mass produced basses (if any) would be considered the vintage basses of the future?

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paul.[/quote]

I'm serious about this, anyone on BC think they're pretty shrewed?

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Shrewd? Thats setting someone up for a fall, innit? :)

I think there are some basses that achieve a certain iconic status through a combination of band associations and general availability so I'd say they're the ones to go for. However its important to bear in mind that the pre-CBS boom was driven by baby-boomers with a severe case of nostalgia and a bucket load of money thanks to the 80's stockmarket boom.

Obviously Wal basses are a classic in the making in that they look set to attract huge sums for the forseeable future. If we don't already own a Wal then we've probably all missed the boat on that one. :huh: I remember there was a bit of a blip in the prices of Jaydees for reasons of nostalgia a few years back too. However, it looks like they might have settled back down again in the last year or so. At the height of the madness I even saw a refinished flat pink Supernatural Mark King with pink neck LED's go for £1300 on one Ebay auction.

Ibanez Musicians are probably worth investing in if you can get them for less than £300. There's a nostalgia thing going for them at the moment. Similar fallout effect for anything early 80's and japanese really, particularly Ibanez basses.

Steinbergers are probably worth getting if they're below £1k, too. Particularly white ones which were relatively rare. Trouble is, because they're graphite, there's not as much mystique attached to them over aging etc. So although I would've backed them a few years back, it looks like the 20 year window of desirability has passed them to a large extent.

It could be argued that 70's Alembics are potential investment with their high standards of build quality and iconic status. But I don't think they were ever popular enough in the way that preEB Musicman's or Fenders were for them to accrue a lot of value to anyone but an Alembic collector.

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I don't think any of today's mass-produced basses have the potential to become highly desirable classics. There aren't any other makes that have such mass appeal. You don't see Ibanez, ESP or Dean instruments on TOTP, ...Later or any televised festivals.

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I think "classic" is the term we're looking for rather than "vintage" - for example, look at the nostalgic appreciation on here for the old Westone basses - particularly the Thunder 1 model - a budget starter instrument at the time, but becoming more sought-after because it happened to be a damn good instrument. I think many of us would consider it a "classic" of its era, no matter how modest it might have been.

It's probably reasonable to generalise & call anything pre-1980s "vintage", much as the term's used for anything pre 1930s by petrolheads. "Classic" doesn't have the same age connotation to me, and could be applied to any bass that's considered iconic, and representative of a particular era.

Jon.

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We are in an era where if anything is old enough someone will buy it, so in the future even undeserving candidates could become high priced classics. There were some good pre CBS Fenders and there were some terrible ones, but they are all sought after now, so original quality isn't the issue.

My vote is also for WAL. With low production runs (barely a trickle), incredible sound and build quality and already a fanatical following, these basses have to be in first place.

Last month a JG WAL (#4) with the leather scratch plate and switches on the pickups failed to get an Ebay bid starting at £1700. 5 years ago Martin Kemps, similar bass which he brought off Alan Spenner, went for £1000. Times change... I thought £1000 was expensive then, now I think £1700 is cheap. These are one-offs with a history which will make them highly collectable. Oh how I wish I had £1700!!!

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Another vote for Wal - a bit silly really as I've just sold mine but made a tidy profit even though it was the untidyest example I'd ever seen. About 10 years ago you could pick one up for buttons - I know one guy who had trouble shifting his in Glasgow and eventually settled for £350 and thought he'd done well at that!

80's Aria Pro basses, early 90's Warwicks, limited edition Lakland/Musicman basses maybe. Who knows what else...

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How about 80s Overwaters with the Thunderbird/Jazz crossed shape? There was an interesting article on Overwater in Bass Player Mag a few issues back, but there seems little info available on these older models and seemingly nothing about the history of the company on their web site. (I know I'd like a bit more info on the one I have - a 36" scale. 2 pup 5 string)

Also aluminium-necked Kramers provided that haven't been hacked about too much?

Edited by BigRedX
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[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='6999' date='May 26 2007, 08:39 AM']What about Warwicks? No potential there? They've reached a point of market saturation and were widely endorsed.[/quote]

I think it depends on whether there are recordings out there that have an unmistakeable Warwick sound. Wals certainly have the potential to be vintage classics because of the unmistakeable bass sound of the likes of Nick Beggs, Mick Karn, etc... Steinbergers maybe because of the reggae connection.

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BigRedX - if you want info on your Overwater get in touch with Chris up in Carlisle - contact details on their [url="http://www.overwater.co.uk"]website[/url]

He should be able to tell you a bit about it as he probably built it...

Cheers

John

Edited by jwbassman
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[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='6999' date='May 26 2007, 08:39 AM']What about Warwicks? No potential there? They've reached a point of market saturation and were widely endorsed.[/quote]

I reckon Warwicks will be the big vintage bass guitar in around 20 years time (as well as Fender and Gibson obviously), particularly the German made ones of the 80's. They even fetch big prices now at the moment! If I had the raw capital handy, I'd invest in a few, but sadly my pockets are as empty as a Frenchman on Valentine's Day.

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I'd probably say in 20 years or so pre 1998 Waricks would be worth something, you know, those made in Germany.


Fenders/Gibbo's will always be vintage instruments no matter what. In 20 years a 2000 model will be worth something.

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[quote name='Bigwan' post='7105' date='May 26 2007, 12:53 PM']Another vote for Wal - a bit silly really as I've just sold mine but made a tidy profit even though it was the untidyest example I'd ever seen. About 10 years ago you could pick one up for buttons - I know one guy who had trouble shifting his in Glasgow and eventually settled for £350 and thought he'd done well at that!

80's Aria Pro basses, early 90's Warwicks, limited edition Lakland/Musicman basses maybe. Who knows what else...[/quote]

I had a similar experience. I sold someone an Ibanez Ergodyne 5 string a few years ago and the guy had a Wal fretless that he lent me as collateral whilst he was sorting out the funds. He would probably have accepted a straight swap at the time. At the time, I didn't appreciate the true value of such an instrument. I also owned Ped's Vigier fretless at the time and didn't think I needed it.

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I think Chris is right that high value instruments that are out of reach of many young bass players will always reach a premium after 20 odd years, but also I think it's almost impossible to second what the market will be doing in 20 years time, as so much of it is down to high profile players.

Looking back, Beck's association with Danelectro, Johnny Ramone's with Mosrite, and Kobain's with Musicmasters have all pushed up the price of what were cheap instruments. It's nothing to do with quality per se, just peoples' perception of that quality (and of course fashion). So if a high profile player started using, say a Gibson Victory, we could expect the price to rocket.

So yeah, Aria Pros and Westones might shoot up in value, but only if they gets that celebrity endorsement.

Having said that, I'm amazed at how comparatively cheap vintage Ricks are - high profile classic basses that are in vogue with many bands at the moment. Their fashionable status only seems to have benefitted the Jap copies at the moment.

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[quote name='paul, the' post='7636' date='May 27 2007, 02:20 PM']Completely overlooked G&L - I can't say I'm a big fan of their appearance, but they sound great.[/quote]

What, no Musicman ?
(pre and post EB)

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I'm not just saying this because I own one but I think the DeArmond Pilot DLX will be recognised as a bit of a classic in a few years, bugger all built before Fender bought them and stopped production, korean but great build quality and tone. Doubt mine would be worth much, battle scars all over it, but i've owned it for 6 and a half years now and I've never played a bass that felt so right to me...

tom

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[quote name='Buzz' post='7358' date='May 26 2007, 10:19 PM']I'd probably say in 20 years or so pre 1998 Waricks would be worth something, you know, those made in Germany.
Fenders/Gibbo's will always be vintage instruments no matter what. In 20 years a 2000 model will be worth something.[/quote]

Well firstly, Warwicks are still being made in Germany. It is true that some players favour some aspects of the pre-98 construction, i.e. neck profile, neck wood, etc. I've encountered a few players who exclusively play pre-90's Warwicks, due to the EMG no longer being stock after their tiff with Spector IIRC and other construction differences. Whether this will lead to increased market prices for pre-98 Warwicks in the future remains a possibility. Though when I was checking out the eBay market for Warwicks a few months ago, pre-98 trait didn't seem to factor into price at all.

Also you have to realise a lot of Warwick endorsers at the moment from what I've seen use modern Warwicks. So I'm not sure the demand for pre-98 will surface.


[quote name='Musky' post='7499' date='May 27 2007, 10:02 AM']Having said that, I'm amazed at how comparatively cheap vintage Ricks are[/quote]

Yeah... I've noticed that too. Why is that?

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I recently realised I knew nothing about my bass, so I thought I would do some research.

I think my bass would be a contender if anyone knew they existed.

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It's a 1997 Californian Series Precision special. The model was only made for two years between 1996 and 1998 and features passive vintage p/j pickups and a jazz neck. So it has a vintage (RI) tone, with a little extra versatility and ease of playability.

And it receives healthy reviews on harmony-central

[url="http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Electric+Bass/product/Fender/California+Precision+Bass+Special/10/1"]http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews...ss+Special/10/1[/url]

This one isn't mine, but I hope to spray it this colour or dark brown.







Would putting covers on detract from its value?

Does anyone know where you can get those spots/inserts shown on the first picture to cover the drill holes for the bridge cover?


Cheers,

Paul.

Edited by paul, the
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