Lisa_Witch Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 My live setuip is usually fairly straightforward: Head, cab, tuner and distortion pedal. However, the latter sometimes causes issues live by producing a horrible feedback sound over the distortion, so I was hoping to draw on the collective wisdom of this place. The offending item is an Ibanez Phat Head Bass Overdrive, and whilst I've never had any issues with it in rehearsals, if the setup is put through a DI onstage, about 50% of the time it does the squeaky thing and I end up not using it. I'm sure there is a simple answer, but for some reason (and feel free to berate me if it is simple!), I haven't found it ... Heeeeelp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colda Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 [quote name='Lisa_Witch' post='87288' date='Nov 12 2007, 01:21 PM']My live setuip is usually fairly straightforward: Head, cab, tuner and distortion pedal. However, the latter sometimes causes issues live by producing a horrible feedback sound over the distortion, so I was hoping to draw on the collective wisdom of this place. The offending item is an Ibanez Phat Head Bass Overdrive, and whilst I've never had any issues with it in rehearsals, if the setup is put through a DI onstage, about 50% of the time it does the squeaky thing and I end up not using it. I'm sure there is a simple answer, but for some reason (and feel free to berate me if it is simple!), I haven't found it ... Heeeeelp![/quote] Might well be that the signal that you're sending to the desk is clipping too much. I also use a PD7 but not had such issues, mine tends to live on the blues overdrive settings as prescribed in the manual (but with a bit more level). Putting my 'sound guy' head on, are you using the DI from your head or one suppiled by the venue? - with my 'old and wierd' rig I'm using a old FAL 150w head and either a ART Tube MP or Behringer MIC200 (as the ART is starting to misbehave) as the preamp, whilst I can use the preamp as a DI, I find it better to use a seperate DI unit (Behringer DI100) and talk the line out from the head into it (making it 100% post everthing) and set the attenuation accordingly. The reason why I started doing this is because the vast majority of the time when taking the DI from the head it clips far too much - by ensuring that the desk get a much more manageable signal means that everyone is happier and all works much better hope this helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Where is the distortion coming from? Your stage amp or the main PA? Wulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Maybe the soundguy needs to roll off the top end. Your bass rig wont be putting out the same high frequencies as the on-stage monitors, which are probably creating the feedback. You could always turn the gain on the pedal down! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa_Witch Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 It seems to do it with or without the gain up, so I think there might be something in trying to make a more manageable signal for the desk. The DI usually comes straight from my Orange AD200B head. The ongoing project that is fiddling with gear continues ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 [quote name='Lisa_Witch' post='87288' date='Nov 12 2007, 01:21 PM']My live setuip is usually fairly straightforward: Head, cab, tuner and distortion pedal. However, the latter sometimes causes issues live by producing a horrible feedback sound over the distortion, so I was hoping to draw on the collective wisdom of this place. The offending item is an Ibanez Phat Head Bass Overdrive, and whilst I've never had any issues with it in rehearsals, if the setup is put through a DI onstage, about 50% of the time it does the squeaky thing and I end up not using it. I'm sure there is a simple answer, but for some reason (and feel free to berate me if it is simple!), I haven't found it ... Heeeeelp![/quote] MB1. Blatantly obvious ,simple answer, being dont use it!,of course.......but i know you want to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa_Witch Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 [quote name='MB1' post='87443' date='Nov 12 2007, 05:43 PM']MB1. Blatantly obvious ,simple answer, being dont use it!,of course.......but i know you want to![/quote] I'll wang it in t'bin if it doesn't start behaving soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wulf Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 The person running the sound desk should be able to monitor the signal coming through from the bass and attenuate the gain. Some are better than others. Having said that, if the pedal drastically increases the signal and you only use it from time to time, maybe the sudden increase is catching them out. What happens if you use the pedal at your typical stage volumes but only going through your amp and not feeding to a PA? Wulf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa_Witch Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 [quote name='wulf' post='87450' date='Nov 12 2007, 05:48 PM']The person running the sound desk should be able to monitor the signal coming through from the bass and attenuate the gain. Some are better than others. Having said that, if the pedal drastically increases the signal and you only use it from time to time, maybe the sudden increase is catching them out. What happens if you use the pedal at your typical stage volumes but only going through your amp and not feeding to a PA? Wulf[/quote] There is never any problem with it when there's no PA involved As far as settings on the pedal itself are concerned, I usually just push the gain a bit to thicken the sound and have a slight volume boost on some sections. Nothing exciting; it's not like I'm doing solos, hence why it's so frustrating that I sometimes have to leave it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Is your DI post EQ? Do you EQ out a lot of highs? I'm guessing no to both these questions, and that could be your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) Is it possible to put the pedal through an effects loop on the amp? My TF 'HATES' having pedals in front of it (bass > pedals > amp), giving feedback through my gear and PA and is absolutely fine when effects are in the appropriate loop. Edited November 12, 2007 by warwickhunt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) Welcome to basschat Not a big user of effects myself but as it appears that the problem is the DI out on the Orange I can make 2 suggestions. 1.Stick a mike in front of the cab and forget the DI. 2.Get a DI box and split the signal: bass-->distortion-->DI-->Amp and take the PA feed from the DI box. Edited November 12, 2007 by bass_ferret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Using a mic is a good suggestion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa_Witch Posted November 13, 2007 Author Share Posted November 13, 2007 [quote name='cheddatom' post='87539' date='Nov 12 2007, 07:58 PM']Using a mic is a good suggestion![/quote] Lots of excellent advice here! I'm off to the lab now ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colda Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 A mic is a good idea - I always dual channel the bass (DI+mic) generally pushing more low end on the DI and leaving the mic more or less flat (sometimes pushing the highs). I have to give credit to Peter Perrett Jr (Love Minus Zero) for this method as it's what we did when they played at our venue and the bass sounded so sweet I've been doing the same thing ever since. So, when DI'ing the bass ask the sound guy if he has a spare channel (never known anyone to say no) and when he says yes tell him to put a mic up your cab and dual channel your bass - any sound guy that this technique is new to will generally thank you as it gives more control FOH to get the sound right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I use a bi-amp rig, so I guess it's more common for people like me, but, i've always got the soundman to DI and take all the high end off, and mic my 2 x 12" amp for the top end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Could the sound engineer be adding compression? If so the change in volume would mean the threshold of the compressor would be set to the wrong area would give stupid amounts of compression bringing out the quitest parts of the sound and crushing the biggest. IE destroying the bass in the sound and making the treble MUCH higher, could cause some major feedback issues. Ok its unlikely to happen at every gig but i have met some bloody stupid sound engineers who dismiss my opinions and ideas live (as band manager and usual engineer) simply because im 21 and cant of had much experience obviously. Im getting fed up of being told to F off tbh, saying that ive met a couple of guys who during the gig really do listen to the band (and me) and weve had a much better experience because of it. Go figure eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted November 14, 2007 Share Posted November 14, 2007 (edited) Dear Lisa... Ive used Ibanez pedals,and they do get squeally at large venues....and Ive an ancient one from 84 My guess is you use it either full on or not at all,that is saying..kinda...TOTAL overdrive to get an 'Industrial' dirt sound. (think Treponem Pal,Marduk..that superfuzzy sound).. well Ive listend to the MYspace and you dont seem to use that sort of sound an awful lot except for cresendo's or just to add grunt in that 'bit' that needs it... To be frank I think a simple FX like you have,as others have,pointed out will be just a bit to much in a venue,trying to stop it going into the Squeal territory ,just finding that sweetspot venue to venue,is to time consuming,what I 'think' you need is a decent amount of grind straight out of the amp. Best thing I can recommend Is the Tech21 SansAmp Bassdriver DI for Metal/Rock, Its built for metal,built from Metal,and is an industry standard in both recording and stage use..... and it comes as a footswitchable unit..has a lineout direct to the board..and a seperate clean signal to the board if you wish,as well as the standard output to the amp.....and its easy as pi55..to use. I have not used Orange amps,except old ones,and found them quite clean,and disliked FX,my mate used a Biamping system and just used his for lows (and a Peavey for highs),the SansAmp might be what you need,its tough as an old mother and after using one for over 3 years,I can say its never keeled over on me,broken or given up,and thats from playing weddings to Funeral Doom,plus anything in between. pricey at about £189 in Denmark st..online you can get them at £20 less,but its a hunt and you do pay for postage...so..... Goodluck Edited November 14, 2007 by ARGH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa_Witch Posted November 16, 2007 Author Share Posted November 16, 2007 [quote name='ARGH' post='88631' date='Nov 14 2007, 08:32 PM']Dear Lisa... Ive used Ibanez pedals,and they do get squeally at large venues....and Ive an ancient one from 84 My guess is you use it either full on or not at all,that is saying..kinda...TOTAL overdrive to get an 'Industrial' dirt sound. (think Treponem Pal,Marduk..that superfuzzy sound).. well Ive listend to the MYspace and you dont seem to use that sort of sound an awful lot except for cresendo's or just to add grunt in that 'bit' that needs it... To be frank I think a simple FX like you have,as others have,pointed out will be just a bit to much in a venue,trying to stop it going into the Squeal territory ,just finding that sweetspot venue to venue,is to time consuming,what I 'think' you need is a decent amount of grind straight out of the amp. Best thing I can recommend Is the Tech21 SansAmp Bassdriver DI for Metal/Rock, Its built for metal,built from Metal,and is an industry standard in both recording and stage use..... and it comes as a footswitchable unit..has a lineout direct to the board..and a seperate clean signal to the board if you wish,as well as the standard output to the amp.....and its easy as pi55..to use. I have not used Orange amps,except old ones,and found them quite clean,and disliked FX,my mate used a Biamping system and just used his for lows (and a Peavey for highs),the SansAmp might be what you need,its tough as an old mother and after using one for over 3 years,I can say its never keeled over on me,broken or given up,and thats from playing weddings to Funeral Doom,plus anything in between. pricey at about £189 in Denmark st..online you can get them at £20 less,but its a hunt and you do pay for postage...so..... Goodluck[/quote] Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 I don't think you can generalise about all Ibanez pedals like that. Any distortion pedal has the potential to feedback. 99.9% of distortion pedals have the potential to sound good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted November 16, 2007 Share Posted November 16, 2007 If you can afford it the EBS Microbass II is supposed to be loads better than the BDDI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerboy Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 This might sound really weird, but is the soundman taking your bass DI signal before your amp? I've been to loads of places where they do this (for a whole variety of dubious reasons) and it would mean that anything your amp or EQ settings do to remove nasty squealy frequencies wasn't happening in the monitors and out-front. Hence feedback. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Some amps don't have the option of a DI post e.q so the soundman should know how to eq the bass if he's using a DI in this way. Obviously, they won't always be great soundmen, but, you think they'd know the basics of what they are doing if it's their job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colda Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 [quote name='cheddatom' post='95066' date='Nov 27 2007, 01:41 PM']Some amps don't have the option of a DI post e.q so the soundman should know how to eq the bass if he's using a DI in this way. Obviously, they won't always be great soundmen, but, you think they'd know the basics of what they are doing if it's their job.[/quote] 'tis true - but most amps have a line out, so you can always ask the soundman to DI that rather than the input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangerboy Posted November 29, 2007 Share Posted November 29, 2007 I've known soundmen pointedly refuse to take a DI or lineout from the bass head, and demand to take it before, claiming 'interference'. I'd argue that there are plenty who don't really know what they're doing, at least on the crappy London venue circuit I inhabit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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