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Problem with my new UL212. Need advice


dave_bass5
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[quote name='nottswarwick' post='10245' date='May 31 2007, 10:46 PM']I may have missed something here, but why do you have to pay anything at all to get this sorted? surely all shipping costs should be picked up by the manufacturer on a brand new cab. I would no way pay a bean.

This sucks, I feel for you. Can't help thinking that a Markbass 1*12 cab would have done it for you all along.[/quote]

you are probably right but i have asked both parties and they said i would have to pay the shipping, albeit one way.
While i dont think its fair im not going to waste time arguing with them. If i can get it fixed quickly for £30 im happy.

The way i see it is if you can get it back to the shop, they can send it off. I ordered from a store in Italy so i have to get it back to them.
If thats not the case then maybe ill try and get the money back but ill see what happen over the next week or so.

Ill email woodandtronics tomorrow and ask about the shipping cost.

I will be using my UL115 for the next two gigs and im quite looking forward to it. I was going to use the UL212 with just the one driver and im sure that would work well but because i dont drive it takes a bit of arranging to get my gear home and then back to gigs so ill leave the UL212 at work where i can put the driver in and then swap it over with the UL115.

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Just a quick update.
The new driver is on its way to me, it should be here mid next week.
Only thing thats bothering me is i have been told the speaker looks different to my old one.
The email said it is for Epifani cabs and i have asked them to check its the same spec.
Im sure it will be fine. might even be one of the new ones although i doubt it.

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[quote name='dave_bass5' post='14103' date='Jun 8 2007, 11:54 AM']Just a quick update.
The new driver is on its way to me, it should be here mid next week.
Only thing thats bothering me is i have been told the speaker looks different to my old one.
The email said it is for Epifani cabs and i have asked them to check its the same spec.
Im sure it will be fine. might even be one of the new ones although i doubt it.[/quote]

From whom is the speaker coming?

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[quote name='dave_bass5' post='10243' date='May 31 2007, 10:42 PM']By the way, i have been told the driver is worth about 100 euro's. make me wonder why the cab costs so much.[/quote]

Because people are willing to pay that much! There is a hell of a lot of mark-up on this kind of gear, somewhere in the order of 100% by the manufacturer and then another 100% by the retailer. Divide the selling price by four and that's what it would cost to self build (assuming their ability to bulk buy negates the lack of labour costs for DIY).

Alex

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='14155' date='Jun 8 2007, 12:59 PM']Because people are willing to pay that much! There is a hell of a lot of mark-up on this kind of gear, somewhere in the order of 100% by the manufacturer and then another 100% by the retailer. Divide the selling price by four and that's what it would cost to self build (assuming their ability to bulk buy negates the lack of labour costs for DIY).

Alex[/quote]

Agreed.
I supposed we no choice but to pay it if we want the gear.

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Dave, I feel for you bro'.

Keep a note of ALL your out of pocket expenses and present it to Wood&tronics when you are happy all is well.

There is no way you should be out of pocket in any way, shape, or form, regardless of wether you are buying from overseas or not. If you buy something new on t'bay and it's faulty you don't have pay to return it.

This company should be bending over backwards right now to help you out. I'm gassing for a new rig ( although I love mine - Maslows hierarchy of needs I think !!! ) and am looking at MAYBE getting one from Germany. No way I'd be paying anything to send it back if it was goosed.

An £800 cab should come hand delivered in a velvet sack.

S

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[quote name='bassbluestew' post='14188' date='Jun 8 2007, 01:49 PM']Dave, I feel for you bro'.

Keep a note of ALL your out of pocket expenses and present it to Wood&tronics when you are happy all is well.

There is no way you should be out of pocket in any way, shape, or form, regardless of wether you are buying from overseas or not. If you buy something new on t'bay and it's faulty you don't have pay to return it.

This company should be bending over backwards right now to help you out. I'm gassing for a new rig ( although I love mine - Maslows hierarchy of needs I think !!! ) and am looking at MAYBE getting one from Germany. No way I'd be paying anything to send it back if it was goosed.

An £800 cab should come hand delivered in a velvet sack.

S[/quote]

Thanks Stew.
About getting the postage back.
Is there a law that says i can? Ive not had to do this sort of thing and i would have imagined if it was Law then wood&tronics would have offered it up front.
So far its cost me £30 (and my company is paying the other half) and a bottle of wine for the girl friend to give me a lift to my drummers house.

I must add that wood&tronics have been very helpful, giving the distributor a kick as they dont always answer their emails quickly.

I must admit its not and ideal situation now. Even if the new driver works ok ill have a cab with two different driver in it. not a problem sound wise i hope but like you said, for a £800 cab its not good enough (and the handle screws still need sorting)

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[quote name='dave_bass5' post='14158' date='Jun 8 2007, 01:04 PM']Agreed.
I supposed we no choice but to pay it if we want the gear.[/quote]

Thus you have to question why you want the gear and if you can get similar performance from either DIY or less heavily marked up gear (Carvin, Avatar and Acme for instance, as they all sell direct)?

Alex

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='14244' date='Jun 8 2007, 03:57 PM']Thus you have to question why you want the gear and if you can get similar performance from either DIY or less heavily marked up gear (Carvin, Avatar and Acme for instance, as they all sell direct)?

Alex[/quote]

For me it was a combination of size, power, weight, loudness, 2x12, 4ohms and voicing.
yes, there are similar but the UL212 scores on all the points.
I also got to try out the NYC version in a shop (as i did with my UL115).
I have no experience with any of the cabs you mention but im guessing by direct you mean from the USA (of course i could be wrong) so there will be import duty etc to pay.

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Well the new driver has arrived and im not happy.
Its a be&C 12/182D-8 if that means anything to anyone. It feels heavier (in fact it is as i weighed it) and i dont understand the connections on it although i can probably figure it out. The older driver was an Eminence driver and i do expect the drivers to match up.
I have emailed Enrico about this and he is looking in to it but i have also threatened to send the cab back for a full refund.

Edited by dave_bass5
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[quote name='dave_bass5' post='16866' date='Jun 13 2007, 01:48 PM']Well the new driver has arrived and im not happy.
Its a be&C 12/182D-8 if that means anything to anyone. It feels heavier (in fact it is as i weighed it) and i dont understand the connections on it although i can probably figure it out. The older driver was an Eminence driver and i do expect the drivers to match up.
I have emailed Enrico about this and he is looking in to it but i have also threatened to send the cab back for a full refund.[/quote]

Damn, this is turning into a right nightmare! Epifani recently changed from be&C to Eminence drivers so it looks like you've got one old, one new. Both are good speakers, however they're not at all identical. I would strongly advise against using the cab with mismatched speakers, as they will interact in strange ways within their shared airspace.

Good luck reaching a resolution!

Alex

P.S. I notice that once again a lone letterB is being turned into the word be. V annoying...

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='16879' date='Jun 13 2007, 02:05 PM']Damn, this is turning into a right nightmare! Epifani recently changed from be&C to Eminence drivers so it looks like you've got one old, one new. Both are good speakers, however they're not at all identical. I would strongly advise against using the cab with mismatched speakers, as they will interact in strange ways within their shared airspace.

Good luck reaching a resolution!

Alex

P.S. I notice that once again a lone letterB is being turned into the word be. V annoying...[/quote]

Alex
Thanks for the help. Yes, after a bit of research i found that Series I had be&C and series II have Eminence. Even though i have a series I cab your right and i shouldn't mix the drivers.

By the way, I did fix the be to be right after i posted but didn't update the edit as my boss walked in to the room.

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Dave,
Sorry mate but this is getting sooooooo complicated I'd be sending the whole lot back, and demanding - yes the time has come for demanding - a completely new cab ( with matching drivers ) and a full refund of all your out of pocket expenses to date PLUS some compensation for being mucked about by an apparently top end shop and manufacturer. A pair of cabinet covers maybe ??
All this to be done on the understanding that if the new cabinet is not absolutely perfect it will be shipped back at their expense for a full and immediate refund.

If they are sticky you should perhaps point them in the direction of this thread to see how both their reputations in the UK bass playing community are hanging by a thread. It will certainly make people think twice before going down the route you have, however a successful and happy outcome would go a long way to restore confidence in them fully I'm sure.

You asked if there was some sort of law ?? Contact your local Cunsumer Advice centre, goods sold have to be "fit for purpose" and this cab obviously isn't. I'm sure European Law will apply but basic consumer rights will remain unaffected I'm sure.

You have been MORE than reasonable in a completely unacceptable situation - time to get tough I think.

Good luck man,
Stewart

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Thanks Stew
you are of course right on all those points.
While its not a good situation i cant put all the blame on Wood&tronics. It was Musical box (the distributors) who replaced the driver. I even had an email saying that it looks different but dont worry. Looking and sounding being two different things of course.
So far W&T have been helpful and also sympathetic and im still willing to let them sort it out. Its much quicker and cheaper to get me a driver than for me to have to return the cab for a refund. If i did that i would have no cab and no money to get a new one with until the refund comes through.
Ill keep hold of the be&C driver until the new one arrives. If it takes ages then at least i have a working cab here, even if its not right.

Edited by dave_bass5
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Just an update. I have agreed on a new be&C driver. they can ship one out and ill send the Eminence back to them but so far i get the feeling they want me to pay. Im not going to and have told them that. Im just waiting to hear back. Also my emails are getting bounced from thier main email address so ive used one that is in the footer of the email but i get the feeling they dont respond to that.
Bloody mess.

Also i notice my edits arent updating, even though its showing as edited by...... in the message above

Edited by dave_bass5
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[quote name='dave_bass5' post='16959' date='Jun 13 2007, 03:33 PM']Just an update. I have agreed on a new be&C driver. they can ship one out and ill send the Eminence back to them but so far i get the feeling they want me to pay. Im not going to and have told them that. Im just waiting to hear back. Also my emails are getting bounced from thier main email address so ive used one that is in the footer of the email but i get the feeling they dont respond to that.
Bloody mess.

Also i notice my edits arent updating, even though its showing as edited by...... in the message above[/quote]

Whilst you're the one being inconvenienced I'd just keep quiet about who's paying for the return or at worst nod my head and say 'yes of course I'll return the driver at my cost' (though don't put it in writing), and at such time as you are a in possession of a pair of matched drivers and a fully working cab... I'd let them arrange collection of the odd speaker at their cost!

This may seem callous but you've been a damn sight more patient than I would!

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[quote name='warwickhunt' post='17010' date='Jun 13 2007, 04:27 PM']Whilst you're the one being inconvenienced I'd just keep quiet about who's paying for the return or at worst nod my head and say 'yes of course I'll return the driver at my cost' (though don't put it in writing), and at such time as you are a in possession of a pair of matched drivers and a fully working cab... I'd let them arrange collection of the odd speaker at their cost!

This may seem callous but you've been a damn sight more patient than I would![/quote]

Thought about that and will do it but i get the impression they want the Eminence back first.

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[quote name='dave_bass5' post='16959' date='Jun 13 2007, 03:33 PM']Just an update. I have agreed on a new be&C driver. they can ship one out and ill send the Eminence back to them...[/quote]

I don't know if you've read the various posts on talkbass about the be&C vs Eminence woofers, but the consensus seems to be that the Eminence woofers sound more like the old ferrite magnet woofers as found in the NYC cabs - thicker bottom, less high midrange. You mentioned that you prefer the sound but not the weight of the NYC 212 so I thought I better point that out sooner rather than later! Also should you need to replace the woofers at any time in the future, the Eminence ones will be less expensive.

Alex

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[quote name='dave_bass5' post='17015' date='Jun 13 2007, 04:32 PM']Thought about that and will do it but i get the impression they want the Eminence back first.[/quote]

Tell them you need the speaker to use cab, if you are forced to return the speaker first then you will be losing money through lost gigs and would want remuneration. Just a tip whilst you are wading your way through this farce but whenever you speak to some one make a point of saying 'sorry who am I speaking to... could you spell that for me', even if you plainly know who it is. Be polite about it but make sure that they know that you are making notes of names. You'd be amazed how effective that can be at producing results!

I take my hat off to you as I'd have said stuff it many moons ago.

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Dave, are you copying Nick Epifani on all your emails. If not I suggest that you do it. Also point out this thread. There is nothing quite like a bit of adverse publicity to get results from the top.

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[quote name='alexclaber' post='17019' date='Jun 13 2007, 04:43 PM']I don't know if you've read the various posts on talkbass about the be&C vs Eminence woofers, but the consensus seems to be that the Eminence woofers sound more like the old ferrite magnet woofers as found in the NYC cabs - thicker bottom, less high midrange. You mentioned that you prefer the sound but not the weight of the NYC 212 so I thought I better point that out sooner rather than later! Also should you need to replace the woofers at any time in the future, the Eminence ones will be less expensive.

Alex[/quote]

Alex
Thanks for pointing that out. I have read up on the differences over on TB. Funny thing is ive not been 100% with the sound of this cab so im thinking maybe its the drivers i dont like. The low mids are thick but i feel maybe they are a bit over powering the low end. I love the sound of my UL115 and while i know they are different i feel its a bit clearer sounding.
Im still waiting to hear back from Italy. seems MB dont like my yahoo email address as my messages are bouncing so im using another one that it seems they dont check often.

As a side note do you or anyone else have any experience with wiring up a be&C driver? Its got this plastic spring loaded thing on it, a bit like a hifi speaker but the wires in the cab have spade connectors and im guessing i might have to cut them off.

thanks again

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[quote name='obbm' post='17023' date='Jun 13 2007, 04:44 PM']Dave, are you copying Nick Epifani on all your emails. If not I suggest that you do it. Also point out this thread. There is nothing quite like a bit of adverse publicity to get results from the top.[/quote]

I have emailed Shawn at Epifani about this, i dont have Nicks email but ive not given them a link to this thread.
Maybe i should.

EDIT: Just noticed the email address i have been using for Shawn is actually nicks so maybe he has seen them

Edited by dave_bass5
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[quote name='dave_bass5' post='17032' date='Jun 13 2007, 04:52 PM']Alex
Thanks for pointing that out. I have read up on the differences over on TB. Funny thing is ive not been 100% with the sound of this cab so im thinking maybe its the drivers i dont like. The low mids are thick but i feel maybe they are a bit over powering the low end. I love the sound of my UL115 and while i know they are different i feel its a bit clearer sounding.
Im still waiting to hear back from Italy. seems MB dont like my yahoo email address as my messages are bouncing so im using another one that it seems they dont check often.

As a side note do you or anyone else have any experience with wiring up a be&C driver? Its got this plastic spring loaded thing on it, a bit like a hifi speaker but the wires in the cab have spade connectors and im guessing i might have to cut them off.

thanks again[/quote]

I can't believe a quality driver and cab manufacturer are using those spring-loaded connectors (or have they improved massively lately)! I may be wrong but when you've gone to the expense of buying a quality cab you'd expect it to be internally hardwired with an appropriate spec' cable, surely the benefits would outweigh the speed of connection etc?

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[quote name='warwickhunt' post='17036' date='Jun 13 2007, 04:58 PM']I can't believe a quality driver and cab manufacturer are using those spring-loaded connectors (or have they improved massively lately)! I may be wrong but when you've gone to the expense of buying a quality cab you'd expect it to be internally hardwired with an appropriate spec' cable, surely the benefits would outweigh the speed of connection etc?[/quote]

This is what it looks like

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