dave_bass5 Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Guys I got a UL212 at the beginning of the month from Woodandtronics in Italy. Ive now done two gigs with it and i think i have a problem. There seems to be a rasping noise coming from the top driver. Ive tightened all the screws in the cab, ive put my hand in to make sure nothing is touching the driver but its still there. Its not coming from the bottom driver though. Even at only one on the master of my SA450 or GK its there. Even if i turn the low control almost all the way back. The driver looks ok but i really want some opinions before i think about sending it back. Ive tried two other cabs and neither of them do this (and the UL212 didnt when i first got it). So, anyone got any ideas what to look for? Im willing to pay a small amount to get it fixed rather than have to ship it back but i want to be sure im not being over fussy. Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 check with walbassist to see if he still represents them in the UK, he could offer some advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 28, 2007 Author Share Posted May 28, 2007 [quote name='Crazykiwi' post='8205' date='May 28 2007, 06:09 PM']check with walbassist to see if he still represents them in the UK, he could offer some advice.[/quote] Thanks, ill do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzbassist Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='8207' date='May 28 2007, 06:10 PM']Thanks, ill do that.[/quote] Hello chaps Thought I'd reply here rather than PM as this is general advice. Damage to Epifani drivers is very rare; in all the cabs Enrico has supplied in the UK after the customer had an initial consultation with me, I know of no returns. One possiblity is to lift it out and re-seat it, and don't make the mistake of [u]over[/u]tightening! Failing that try touching the edge of the cone when you play very quietly to see if that makes the rasping go away, or at least isolates the area that is problematic. Given that one driver sounds fine and the other doesn't then it certainly sounds like the problem is down to the driver itself, but I'm afraid you'll need to speak with Enrico about getting it sorted as I hold no stock. I am sure he will sort you out as quickly as he can. Best of luck! Gareth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxblood Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Just an idea: I wonder if the driver in question has somehow been mounted unevenly - i.e. that the screws round the outer rim of the basket haven't all been tightened to the same degree, causing a slight twisting/bending of the frame? Might it be worth slackening them all off and then gently re-tightening them to see if it cures the problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 28, 2007 Author Share Posted May 28, 2007 Thanks guys. I have contacted Enrico and had a response. ill be speaking to him tomorrow. The last thing i want to do is have to return it so im open to any suggestions. Regarding touching the cone. ive tried that. Ive also had my hand inside to have a feel around to see if anything is loose or touching the cone. its not. I didnt have the sound before yesterday (but on sat night i had another, almost glass like sound coming from the same place. this was at the gig and so i couldnt really sort it out. when i got home the sound had gone, replaced by this one)so as for tightening or over tightening the screws, well i didn't touch them until after the problem appeared. I haven't tried re-seating the driver. i guess i could try that if anyone thinks it might help. I checked the speaker screws but none were really loose and as i didnt want to damage anything i just checked them rather than tightening them too much. The other thing i noticed when i took the handle off to have a look inside was how loose the screws were holding the handle. Now for a cab costing almost £800 this is just not on. There are 10 screws holding the handle on. 4 are more like bolts as there is a metal "thing" (i have no idea about woodwork) the other side of the side panel that the screw screw it to. But one is missing and so the bolt practically fell out. the other six are wood screws and i got all but one out by hand they were that loose. And it took me around 10mins to get the handle back on as the metal "things" kept falling into the cab or just spinning. Totally disappointed with the build quality. Most of the grill screws were also hanging off when i got it. I have checked my UL115 and there are no issues with that so i know its not the bass or heads. Funny thing, when i got a 112NYC earlier this year i had a similar problem although that seemed to be down to the lows causing this noise, this time i can play almost all the way up the neck, with the bass EQ flat and the low EQ on the amp backed off from centre and still i can hear it. We had started recording to day and it meant i couldn't mic the cab up. I do want to make it clear that this is in no way a reflection on Enrico, its obvious the cab left Epifani this way and Enrico is just as shocked as i am. ill keep the thread updated if anything happens. I guess at worse ill have to pay for it to go back to Italy. Not looking forward to that bill but if it has to be done then ill have to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Sorry to here you have problems - you dont seem to have had much luck lately. Thats the problem with getting stuff from abroad. When I had a problem with my EBS Neo 2x12 I took it back to Bernie and it was fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 28, 2007 Author Share Posted May 28, 2007 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='8372' date='May 28 2007, 10:48 PM']Sorry to here you have problems - you dont seem to have had much luck lately. Thats the problem with getting stuff from abroad. When I had a problem with my EBS Neo 2x12 I took it back to Bernie and it was fixed.[/quote] Yeah, i try and avoid ordering stuff if i can help it just for this reason. I live near the Bass Center and it would be great if they actually stocked anything i needed but they dont. Im thinking i should have gone with my instincts and got a 1212L but thought the UL212 sounded just the job. Lovley cab though. Even with this problem ill be using it for gigs unless i have to send it away. Im sure this will take a while to sort out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 29, 2007 Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 Just wanted to update you guys. I have just taken the driver out of the cab and put it next to the cab and its still doing it. I cant see any damage but i cant think of anything else now other than to get the driver replaced. I must say how surprised i was at how light the driver is. The last time i held a speaker i almost dropped it because of the weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbm Posted May 29, 2007 Share Posted May 29, 2007 Have you registered the cab with Epifani for warranty? Call or email Nick Epifani in NYC and explain the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 29, 2007 Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 [quote name='obbm' post='8818' date='May 29 2007, 08:57 PM']Have you registered the cab with Epifani for warranty? Call or email Nick Epifani in NYC and explain the problem.[/quote] I haven't because on the website it states (as far as i can see) that the warranty is for the USA only. I thought my warranty was with Wood&tronics. I have email Epifani yesterday but not heard anything from them yet. Ill wait to see what Woodandtronics say first as if i have to get the driver shipped i would rather deal within Europe than the states. should be cheaper i hope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 29, 2007 Author Share Posted May 29, 2007 Just had a reply from Enrico and the European distributor should be getting in touch tomorrow to help sort it out. Anyone know if i would damage the remaining driver if i used the cab with only one driver in it? I looked it up and its rated at 400watts @8homs so in theory i should be ok with my SA450 only putting out 300watts @8ohms and i wont be needing that much power in the next couple of weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Just a thought! You mentioned that one of the 4 handle internal retaining nuts (probably not the most accurate name but I've seen enough driver mountings to know what you mean) was missing. It hasn't by any chance come loose and been attracted/magnetised to the back of the driver, possibly putting a nick or tear in it. I'd expect it to still be lodged there but you never know! Either way that fixing may still be inside the cab, so I'd try and find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='9028' date='May 30 2007, 10:16 AM']Just a thought! You mentioned that one of the 4 handle internal retaining nuts (probably not the most accurate name but I've seen enough driver mountings to know what you mean) was missing. It hasn't by any chance come loose and been attracted/magnetised to the back of the driver, possibly putting a nick or tear in it. I'd expect it to still be lodged there but you never know! Either way that fixing may still be inside the cab, so I'd try and find it.[/quote] Good idea but when i took the handle off i did find that bit sitting in the padding next to the handle so it hadn't been near the driver as far as i can see. The driver looks fine to my eyes. no rips or tears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 (edited) What warwickhunt says rings a bell for me. I have a Tokai Talbo Jr guitar which has a built-in amp and speaker. After a while the sound coming from the built-in speaker started to get a sheen of nasty distortion irrespective of volume (except so low that that the acoustic sound of the guitar drowned it out) or battery strength. Opening up the guitar revealed a whole load of string ball-ends (from broken strings) clustered onto the back of the speaker magnet. Removing them immediately restored the sound to normal no more horrible sheen of distortion. Since you mentioned that there seemed to be some fixings missing internally, I'd have a good look feel all the way around the magnet and chassis of the speakers to see if they've picked up any magnetically attracted passengers. On the Talbo the ball-ends weren't touching the cone at all but were obviously vibrating in sympathy with the speaker, just adding a nasty top edge to the sound. Edited May 30, 2007 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 [quote name='BigRedX' post='9069' date='May 30 2007, 11:44 AM']What warwickhunt says rings a bell for me. I have a Tokai Talbo Jr guitar which has a built-in amp and speaker. After a while the sound coming from the built-in speaker started to get a sheen of nasty distortion irrespective of volume (except so low that that the acoustic sound of the guitar drowned it out) or battery strength. Opening up the guitar revealed a whole load of string ball-ends (from broken strings) clustered onto the back of the speaker magnet. Removing them immediately restored the sound to normal no more horrible sheen of distortion. Since you mentioned that there seemed to be some fixings missing internally, I'd have a good look feel all the way around the magnet and chassis of the speakers to see if they've picked up any magnetically attracted passengers. On the Talbo the ball-ends weren't touching the cone at all but were obviously vibrating in sympathy with the speaker, just adding a nasty top edge to the sound.[/quote] Thanks but im sitting here with the speaker in my hand and there is nothing either hanging off or loose. When i was comparing the two drivers last night, only testing one at a time the good one would jump around where as we faulty one hardly moved. But the sound is as you describe. Im wondering if i should just buy a new driver. might work out quicker than waiting for the musical box (the distributor) to sort out and if i have to send the cab to them the shipping cost might be dearer than just getting a driver direct from Epifani. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obbm Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='9077' date='May 30 2007, 11:55 AM']Thanks but im sitting here with the speaker in my hand and there is nothing either hanging off or loose. When i was comparing the two drivers last night, only testing one at a time the good one would jump around where as we faulty one hardly moved. But the sound is as you describe. Im wondering if i should just buy a new driver. might work out quicker than waiting for the musical box (the distributor) to sort out and if i have to send the cab to them the shipping cost might be dearer than just getting a driver direct from Epifani.[/quote] Dave, if you have a faulty driver then Epifani should ship you one immediately at their expense for you to install. As the manufacturer the buck stops with them. They have to support their customers. No way should you consider sending it back anywhere at your expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Can you exchange the drivers with each other in the meantime (changing positions and wiring connections) just to rule out another point of failure? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Absolutely agree with OBBM. Not only is it still under manufacturers warranty but WoodTronics should be bending over backwards to help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 [quote name='Muppet' post='9085' date='May 30 2007, 12:10 PM']Can you exchange the drivers with each other in the meantime (changing positions and wiring connections) just to rule out another point of failure? Steve[/quote] Yep, done that. i even had them both running one at a time out of the cab to rule out the cab itself. I now have the good one sitting in the top position of the cab. im tempted to use it for a couple of smaller gigs coming up as its still a 400watt cab but maybe its best to just use my UL115 for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 [quote name='Muppet' post='9085' date='May 30 2007, 12:10 PM']Can you exchange the drivers with each other in the meantime (changing positions and wiring connections) just to rule out another point of failure? Steve[/quote] Good call. Shame it didn't reveal anything! So it definitely sounds like you have driver failure of some form. With no input into the cab (no amp etc.) is there a scraping sound when you 'gently' push the speaker cone/coil backwards and forwards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 30, 2007 Author Share Posted May 30, 2007 (edited) [quote name='warwickhunt' post='9098' date='May 30 2007, 12:33 PM']Good call. Shame it didn't reveal anything! So it definitely sounds like you have driver failure of some form. With no input into the cab (no amp etc.) is there a scraping sound when you 'gently' push the speaker cone/coil backwards and forwards?[/quote] just tried that and no, cant hear anything or feel anything. The driver is out of the cab now. Didn't see the point in putting it back in but i can to test it out if anyone has any other suggestions although would have to do that in the evening when everyone has gone home I just hope this happens when it gets tested. Im not imagining it and it is quite noticeable so im sure it is faulty but the speaker looks fine. Nothing is rattling either. Had an email from woodandtronics and Musical box dont open until 3.30 so i should hear something later this afternoon. Cheers Edited May 30, 2007 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiiight Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I too have a UL212 and I had the exact same problem after only using it for two practises. I shipped it back to the gallery for Alex to have a look at, he ended up having to get a replacement driver from Epifani because they said they didn't know what was wrong with it. By all accounts Alex had to ship the old driver back to Epifani so that they could see what was wrong with it. Had the cab back for a couple of weeks now and all is fine and dandy at last, but i didn't really expect to have these problems or any problems for that matter with a brand new £800 cab!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 31, 2007 Author Share Posted May 31, 2007 [quote name='kiiight' post='10228' date='May 31 2007, 10:12 PM']I too have a UL212 and I had the exact same problem after only using it for two practises. I shipped it back to the gallery for Alex to have a look at, he ended up having to get a replacement driver from Epifani because they said they didn't know what was wrong with it. By all accounts Alex had to ship the old driver back to Epifani so that they could see what was wrong with it. Had the cab back for a couple of weeks now and all is fine and dandy at last, but i didn't really expect to have these problems or any problems for that matter with a brand new £800 cab!!![/quote] Well im sort of glad im not the only one. I was in too minds as to whether to complain about it or not at first. you cant hear it when the band are playing but the more i thought about how much this cab cost the more wound up i got. I notice there are a few posts about the QC of Epifani these days. I was really shocked at the poor quality of my UL212 when i first got it. I could have sent it back but i can live with it once the driver is sorted out. It would cost me around £100 to send the cab back so i insisted i would only sned the driver. I have had to ship the driver back to the european distritor at my cost which is going to cost £61. luckly my firm is paying half but im still not happy this has happened. Epifani also asked for the driver back but again, at my cost. I should have the new one back by the end of next week or early the following week but as we know, these things never go to plan. Its no ones fault but i doubt i will order from over seas again. I sholud have go the 212NYC from the Gallery when i first tried it. Its heavier than my UL212 but im sure it sounded a bit better. By the way, i have been told the driver is worth about 100 euro's. make me wonder why the cab costs so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted May 31, 2007 Share Posted May 31, 2007 I may have missed something here, but why do you have to pay anything at all to get this sorted? surely all shipping costs should be picked up by the manufacturer on a brand new cab. I would no way pay a bean. This sucks, I feel for you. Can't help thinking that a Markbass 1*12 cab would have done it for you all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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