Double Bass Buying Guide

[bassbloke]

I've decided that I have to get a double bass.

I spent an evening playing with an instrument a friend borrowed from college and loved it!

It would be really, really useful if someone on this forum with some experience could share some advice, such as price you should expect to pay, good or bad countries of origin, reccomended makes and warning signs.

Thank you

[Guest Jecklin]

The first thing anyone who is thinking about buying a (their first) double bass should do is STOP. Take a deep breath. Count to a hundred then get a teacher.

There are various ways to find teachers, but phoning music departments in schools in your area is a good start. They may not have a bass teacher, but will know of one.

This teacher will be invaluable in regard to every aspect of playing a doublebass.

Firstly you'll have lessons on their instrument.
An instrument way beyond the reaches of a first time buyer and this is a very very good thing as it will take the wow factor off basses you look at to buy.

Have lessons for a good couple of months (albeit 1 a week, one a fortnight or one a month).
Your teacher will address all the starting points and help tell you what to look for.

Now you are ready to go shopping.
Be prepared for this process to take months (I'm currently shopping for a new bass and have been since early september).

Your locale wil dictate what dealers you have to turn to, but be prepared to travel relatively long distances. It's worth it. The basses aren't going to come to you so you have to go to the basses.

Private sales are good, but you wont be able to take an instrument on approval like you might with a dealer. In instances like this you may have to take your teacher with you (yes you will probably have to pay for their time) to help judge if the instrument is worth it.

Rough costings:
If you intend to buy a brand new bass you will need at least £1500 (bag and bow will cost extra)
If you intend to buy a second hand bass you will need a grand as a minimum (you will definitely find something below this though)

You will find new laminate basses for under £1500, but I personally don't see these as a viable starting point. I'm not anti laminate basses, but there are some old gems out there that won't drop in value like a new lam bass does.
A carved bass will serve you better no matter what music you play.

Just have these words rining in your head:
DO NOT buy a bass unless you can play it.
DO NOT buy a bass from an internet shop.

In terms of brands/country or origin don't worry.
Every country that makes basses has made turkeys and diamonds.
Treat every doublebass on its individaul merits.

This isn't a buying guide, just some pointers.
Specifics are easier to deal with so please ask anything.

Where abouts in UK are you?

Thomas

[bassbloke]

Thank you for that information.

I'm based in Chessington, Surrey

[lonestar]

[quote name='merchant' post='94676' date='Nov 26 2007, 06:09 PM']The first thing anyone who is thinking about buying a (their first) double bass should do is STOP. Take a deep breath. Count to a hundred then get a teacher.

There are various ways to find teachers, but phoning music departments in schools in your area is a good start. They may not have a bass teacher, but will know of one.

This teacher will be invaluable in regard to every aspect of playing a doublebass.

Firstly you'll have lessons on their instrument.
An instrument way beyond the reaches of a first time buyer and this is a very very good thing as it will take the wow factor off basses you look at to buy.

Have lessons for a good couple of months (albeit 1 a week, one a fortnight or one a month).
Your teacher will address all the starting points and help tell you what to look for.

Now you are ready to go shopping.
Be prepared for this process to take months (I'm currently shopping for a new bass and have been since early september).

Your locale wil dictate what dealers you have to turn to, but be prepared to travel relatively long distances. It's worth it. The basses aren't going to come to you so you have to go to the basses.

Private sales are good, but you wont be able to take an instrument on approval like you might with a dealer. In instances like this you may have to take your teacher with you (yes you will probably have to pay for their time) to help judge if the instrument is worth it.

Rough costings:
If you intend to buy a brand new bass you will need at least £1500 (bag and bow will cost extra)
If you intend to buy a second hand bass you will need a grand as a minimum (you will definitely find something below this though)

You will find new laminate basses for under £1500, but I personally don't see these as a viable starting point. I'm not anti laminate basses, but there are some old gems out there that won't drop in value like a new lam bass does.
A carved bass will serve you better no matter what music you play.

Just have these words rining in your head:
DO NOT buy a bass unless you can play it.
DO NOT buy a bass from an internet shop.

In terms of brands/country or origin don't worry.
Every country that makes basses has made turkeys and diamonds.
Treat every doublebass on its individaul merits.

This isn't a buying guide, just some pointers.
Specifics are easier to deal with so please ask anything.

Where abouts in UK are you?

Thomas[/quote]

I have just started thinking along the getting some double bass lessons line too with a view towards possibly a EUB.

Thanks Thomas for a very helpful posting
Regards
mike

[guyl]

I'm afraid that the first thing you will find (with all due respect to merchant) is that double bass players take their instrument far too seriously.

Nothing like electric where anyone is actively encouraged to jump in and have a go.

You'll be told to spend a fortune on lessons. You'll be told to spend thousands on an instrument. You'll be made to think that you are not worthy of the dark art of Double Bass - and you're unlikely to ever be any good at it!

All this is nonsense. A half decent pickup and amp will compensate for your poor technique or rubbish instrument.

Upright bass is a wooden box with strings - it isn't really that complicated! Keep your eyes peeled - there are plenty of bargains around and the eastern europeans and chinese are making perfectly good basses that can be picked up for £500.

A decent repairman will soon make sure your bass is playable and just a couple of lessons will get you going technique-wise.

The big, fat, juicy sound that the bull fiddle makes, means you don't need play lots of notes to get gigging. Get into a band and get thumping out one or two notes per bar - that will be your best lessons.

I mean no disrespect to the "serious" bass playing fraternity, but I say "jump in and have a go". You'll love it!

[zero9]

Hello,

So, you're thinking of buying a Double Bass (DB).

I moved from Electric Bass to Electric Upright Bass to Double Bass. Last May I bought a new Stentor Arcadia DB and had it set up by a specialist (new bridge, new post, new strings and action adjusted to my style), total cost about £2k. The DB is made in China and came complete with cover and bow (both reasonable quality).

I am extermely happy with the Stentor and it plays and sounds superb.

I have never had lessons and found it fairly striaghtforward to get on with the DB. Trust your ears and put in as much practice as you can. You don't necessarily need a teacher (unless you feel this will boost your confidence or your trying to learn proper bowing technique). The important thing is to practice practice practice.... and if that doesn't work, practice some more (read some stuff on Danny Thompson).

Good luck with your move to DB.

Wil

[lonestar]

[quote name='zero9' post='95061' date='Nov 27 2007, 01:25 PM']Hello,

So, you're thinking of buying a Double Bass (DB).

I moved from Electric Bass to Electric Upright Bass to Double Bass. Last May I bought a new Stentor Arcadia DB and had it set up by a specialist (new bridge, new post, new strings and action adjusted to my style), total cost about £2k. The DB is made in China and came complete with cover and bow (both reasonable quality).

I am extermely happy with the Stentor and it plays and sounds superb.

I have never had lessons and found it fairly striaghtforward to get on with the DB. Trust your ears and put in as much practice as you can. You don't necessarily need a teacher (unless you feel this will boost your confidence or your trying to learn proper bowing technique). The important thing is to practice practice practice.... and if that doesn't work, practice some more (read some stuff on Danny Thompson).

Good luck with your move to DB.

Wil[/quote]

++1 on Danny Thompson he's one of my heroes what a player!
Probably the main inspiration for me to get interested in upright bass. can you suggest any further reading?

[TPJ]

Guyl, I'm sorry but I feel you are making silly sweeping generalizations. The Upright bass is difficult to learn and play. You buy a cheap sh1t instrument and it makes it all the harder. You need to take the Upright as serious as any other instrument you learn. I've never been told to spend a fortune on lessons and thousands on instruments. I researched and found that quality instruments cost thousands. There's a reason for that. You buy a sh1t double bass from China and you'll literally hurt yourself trying to play the thing. Plus you'll spend as much or more on repairs of an instrument that will never live up to what you need.

Yeah, jump in and learn but do it sensibly instead of chucking money away and physically hurting yourself.

Edited November 27, 2007 by TPJ

[guyl]

Apologies - no silliness or offensive generalisations ment.

Merchants post, whilst well meaning, make tackling the upright sound as if it can't be done without a teacher, without an instrument costing at least £1,500 and without difficulty.

The thread was started by Bassbloke who probably now feels a little bit daunted. I think the enthusiasts should be encouraging him and "demistifying" this great instrument.

I can only talk from my experience:
Although I have owned a number of basses, I am still gigging on my first which only cost £500. With a good pickup and amp and a regular service, it sounds great.
I am largely self taught - a couple of players gave me advice on technique when I started, and I try to learn from gigs that I watch.
I gigged on the instrument almost as soon as I started - roots at first, then roots and 4ths, then walking. I asked for music in advance if the gig was difficult to have something to practice towards.
Now people phone with far more gigs than I can manage and I am paid to play all over the UK.

In my opinion Bassbloke doesn't need to commit £thousands on instrument and teacher to get pleasure from the upright bass.

[Bilbo]

A word of caution from the Suffolk ignoramus....

After years of losing out jazz gigs to double bass players (and of being a genuine admirer of people like Paul Chambers, Dave Holland, Marc Johnson and Ron Carter), I decided I would have a go. I didn't have a lot of money so found an independent dealer in Surrey who sold me a, get this, half-size bass (I am 6' 1'' tall). I was so up for playing the thing and wanted one NOW that I fell for it. I had tried enquiring elsewhere but couldn't get anything for the £500 I had to spend so I though, 'Aah, well. At least it will get me started'.

Did it f***.

Firstly, I tried to get a classical teacher but they were all REALLY elitist, treated me like an arrogant pretender (I wasn't, I just wanted to learn) because I was over 30, and, because I couldn't get to them between 9-5 Monday to Friday, they couldn't meet my needs. I was too far out (geographically) to benefit from London teachers and decided to go it alone. It can't be that hard, right?

Bad mistake.

Bad technique.

Bad carpel tunnel syndrome.

Had to put the instrument down after 18 months, after playing only two gigs on the damn thing, and sold it back to the same dealer (for the money I paid for it, to be fair). I couldn't play for more than 15 minutes before the pain set in. Fortunately, my hand/arm problems didn't overly effect my electric bass playing so all was not lost but my little adventure with the double bass continues to give me some odd RSI type pains that, whilst not unduly bad, have resulted in my having to use an ergonomic computer keyboard due to difficulties with my left wrist.

In short, bassbloke, I would listen to Merchant. He sounds like he knows what he is taking about and may save you some considerable pain and frsutration later on. I wish I could have spoken to him before I went down the dead end I took. I urge patience and dedicated research into the field you are entering. A little time spent now will save you many years of wasted time later on.

My main regret is that my inability to deal with the bull fiddle has denied me the opportunity to play many genre's of music that, had I had a more positive experience, I could have enjoyed (classical music, certain shows, some jazz etc). I try very hard to use the electric bass for 'serious' musics (primarily jazz orientated) but, despite my ambitions, the electric is rarely called where the double bass is traditionally featured and I am condemned to a musical life populated by realtively superficial amatuers.

All because Basschat didn't exist in 1993!!

Edited November 27, 2007 by bilbo230763

[Guest Jecklin]

Wow this has been chugging along nicely.

I don't want to put anyone off playing double bass, and yes there is a great deal to be said for jumping in at the deep end.

I may come across as someone with an axe to grind but I really don't.

In reference to some of the points raised:

I don't play jazz per se and I don't come from a classical background (although the stuff I do now has a lot in common with contemporary classical). I started double bass after realising my hearing damage had stopped me wanting to continue playing in an amplified setting.

The words I speak in regards to buying a doublebass are somewhat of a cliche.
They are cliched for a reason.


I speak as some one that wishes I had taken more time buying a bass and had had lessons before buying a bass.

I only started having lessons once the pain in my left arm started to become more than an annoyance....I was spared developing full blown tendonitis and carpal tunnel syndrome by breaking my wrist and having to stop playing altogether for 2 months; and losing all my forearm muscle from being in plaster meant i had to start from scratch. A good thing. Every cloud....

However If I'm not careful I can tweak the tendons which leads to a slight flair up. ice and a weeks rest seems to do the trick.

I was very lucky that the bass I bought in relative ignorance started out functional and has now been turned into quite a player.

Yes playing with an amplifier makes you louder.
IT DOES NOT make up for poor technique.

Ok finding a teacher is not good enough. finding a teacher who is right for you is key.
Again I was lucky. At 28 I'm the oldest pupil my teacher has, but my musical concerns are very different from the school kids and my musical context is different from his conservatory pupils so the lessons are as much of a change for him as they are informative for me.

I'm perma-skint so I get a lesson once every 2 months or so. Not ideal, but enough to keep me in check.

Thomas

Edited November 27, 2007 by Jecklin

[jakenewmanbass]

just adding a quick two penneth'
Merchants advice is sound, it may be the case that some people can plonk away quite happily (and well) on a relative plank and have no problems, and gig and make others happy and all lovely, lovely.
BUT (and its a big one) take heed from Bilbos' story, it doesn't mean everyone will get away like that, there is a strong possibility that poor technique can lead to long lasting physical problems. So I would say, do get a reasonable instrument, and do get some lessons, I'm near Farnham Surrey and would happily give you a few pointers if not full on lessons if not recommend some London players who would do the same. And in Sutton (not far from you) is MJ Healey who has a shop full of Double Basses you could try. (well worth it to play a number of different ones to get an idea of what suits you).
BTW I'm not elitist or talking out of my arse, I've been a pro double bass player for nearly 20 yrs and have taught to degree standard, and I love the thought that there are more guys wanting to take it up, its a great instrument with a great history and is a very satisfying thing to get any level of achievement on.
whatever you decide, best of luck with it
Jake

Edited December 15, 2007 by jakesbass

[PaulKing]

[quote name='bassbloke' post='94631' date='Nov 26 2007, 04:50 PM']I've decided that I have to get a double bass.

It would be really, really useful if someone on this forum with some experience could share some advice, such as price you should expect to pay, good or bad countries of origin, reccomended makes and warning signs.

Thank you[/quote]

Some interesting opinions expressed on here, and as usual the truth is likely somewhere in the middle.
My first post here, I normally live at rockabillybass.com, which will give you an idea of what I do with my basses. I slap them about, which some might think is heresy. But there is NO BASS SNOBBERY over there. I still take my basses very seriously though. I think I've owned 10 different basses in nearly 20 years. Mostly budget end, but also one beautiful 1940s carved German bass, my pride and joy. I've got 3 acoustic and one EUB at the moment.

My opinion: Yes buy a bass and have fun, it's easy to get started, takes a lifetime to master, as most instruments.
Do take great care buying a cheap bass though. Even a good store like Footes in London sells Chinese and Romanian student basses that sound pretty rough, at well over £1000. And they feel uncomfortable too. Both of those factors can make them frustrating and disatisfying to play, and produce unpleasant noises which only deter you from persisting.

However you can pick up beautiful basses, new and second hand, for around £500. They come up on ebay, but you need to know what to look for. There's a fine Hofner on right now if you're quick.
Thomann on-line store - they sell Strunal (Czech) basses, which are beautifully made, wonderful to play and sound the business. £400-£1000. Look at the Thomann 2W (it's made by Strunal). They also sell Christopher I think, which are good chinese basses.

In the States you have more choice - Upton, Hawkes, Englehardt, American Standard, and the elusive original Kay basses (if you're lucky to find one). Plus King who make indestructible gigging basses for rock stars and bedroom wannabes alike.

But there are many Chinese basses you should avoid at all costs, they just don't cut it and have a reputation for falling apart. They just sound and feel vulnerable and cardboardy. They often have Italian or European sounding names, but they aren't. You CAN enjoy one of these, and you can have one that lasts perfectly well - I know plenty of people who are happy with theirs. But I bet that every single one of them would trade it for a Strunal if they had the opportunity to play one.

Then you have to choose the right strings and pick up. They DO make a difference. Low tension strings are MUCH easier to learn on, but might hold your technique back later on. Don't expect the strings that come on the bass to have much warmth and sustain. Thomastik Spirocore are pretty much the standard for most situations. There are several pick-up options. Whatever you choose first will be OK, but you'll want to experiment later on - personal choice.

So in short. Buy one. Spend £500+. Check the make carefully, and ask here, or at rockabillybass.com.
Buy some decent strings. Teach yourself to play. Enjoy. Nurse your sore fingers. polish the varnish. Change the strings again. Never look back.

[bassace]

Bassbloke, can I add my bit?

There's a lot of sense on this thread; not all of it coming to the same conclusion, of course. A lot of it seems to boil down to whether to get a teacher or not. I started many decades ago and apart from the school music master who was the custodian of the school bass (and therefore someone to be ingratiated) there were no 'unclassical' teachers around. Besides there was a lot of work waiting so I picked up the skills as I went along.

So how are things now? Well, the phone still rings a lot but although I've never suffered any lasting injuries my technique is not a pretty sight. My intonation up the fingerboard is decidedly suspect unless I work hard on it and I suffer great embarrassment every time I am in the company of other bassists or have to go and try out a new instrument. So, do I regret not having lessons? - probably yes. Another benefit of a teacher is that he will help you find a suitable instrument; he will most likely have good contacts. He may even lend you an instrument while you get started.

And always remember, listen intently to as much bass playing live and on CD in your chosen genre as you can. You will learn how the bass player goes about his business, what lines he takes and how he fits in with the band. If jazz is your thing you could do a lot worse than the Oscar Peterson Trios, especially with Ray Brown on bass.

You have already found in this thread that there are plenty of URB players ready and willing to offer you advice and who I'm sure will be interested in how you progress. Keep in touch and remember, the people who learn most are those that aren't afraid to ask questions, however daft they may initally seem.

[TheRev]

Hey Bassbloke.

Have you checked out the Double bass forums on Talkbass - there's a wealth of information on there concerning buying basses and strings etc. I've certainly found it very useful.

On the subject of lessons/teachers - there are a number of very good books out there, (I'm using 'The elolving bassist' by Rufus Reid) which will point you in the right direction technique wise.

Personally, I feel that taking lessons are A Good Thing, provided you can find a teacher you can get on with, which as some have pointed out, isn't always possible.

If you're not aiming on becoming some sort of DB virtuoso then I reckon a good tution book, regular (and to begin with - gentle!) practice and getting as much information as possible about technique (to avoid RSI/carpal tunnel syndrome) will be enough to get you started. Lessons can come later if you hit a block.

I've no wisdom to offer concerning buying basses - I play electric upright and am therefore a lower form of life

Oh, and listen to Danny Thompson. Lots of Danny Thompson. And Ali Friend.

[dougal]

Hey, bassbloke.

I've been having double bass lessons from Ian (http://www.ianbass.co.uk/) who's in Chessington (I'm down the road in Surbiton).

He's a really nice guy & knows his stuff.

I would suggest having a lesson, so you can at least have a crack. He'll point you in the right direction with basses too.

He suggested:
[quote]First of all the best place to get a bass from is Malcolm Healey [url="http://www.healeyviolins.com/index.html"]http://www.healeyviolins.com/index.html[/url]
He's a great bloke and has very fair prices (unlike the Contrabass Shop which is very overpriced!) I'm going to see him on Tuesday so I can see what he's got in stock for you. You should be able to get a reasonable bass for £1-2k, never buy a bass unless you can take it home and try it out for a few days.[/quote]

[the-sugar-king]

Love this thread so cool to hear so much solid info about the double bass thought i would share my own experience
Yes i did convert to the dark side 6 months ago being a lefty! made the experience even more of a problem
First i jumped right in!brought a chinese laminate online with the intension of converting to left hand big mistake what a piece of trash sent it back immediately and got my £795 refund
Then still keen or just plain dumb i brought a secondhand old German laminate got it converted and properly setup including some great presto strings low tension will a deep gut sound perfect! brought Todd phillips dvd on acoustic bass gets you up and running and helps iron out any bad habits before you end up making a trip to the doctor
Now i own a really nice left handed Strunel with a solid top £900! and of cause presto strings playing a 2hr gig every week without any problems guess all im saying is if you cant find a teacher do get some form of visual aid to help your technique.then whatever instrument you buy just make sure its setup properly plus i would highly recommend light strings to build up your strength otherwise you'll only be playing 15 minutes aday and thats from a old git of 41 its never to late to learn

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='dougal' post='143492' date='Feb 20 2008, 12:38 AM']Hey, bassbloke.

I've been having double bass lessons from Ian (http://www.ianbass.co.uk/) who's in Chessington (I'm down the road in Surbiton).

He's a really nice guy & knows his stuff.

I would suggest having a lesson, so you can at least have a crack. He'll point you in the right direction with basses too.

He suggested:[/quote]

+1 for Malcolm Healy he is indeed a nice guy and seems to always have a stock of decent instruments around.

[Doddy]

Some good advice all around,but theres a couple of things I would like to mention.
It is possible to get a decent bass for under a grand-just like an electric,you should play as many as you can,and get the one that feels and sounds the best for you,regardless of the price.
Also,while being self taught is totally cool,you should really think about taking some lessons,especially if you want to work with the bow.

[Owen]

Teacher. Yes.

£1K + to begin with on a bass? No.

If you want to play the music of dead "classical" composers then you will eventually need a more expensive instrument. But to start thumping in a jazz, folk, show or whatever setting a £350 double bass [url="http://www.gear4music.com/String_Instruments/Double_Bass.html"]http://www.gear4music.com/String_Instrumen...ouble_Bass.html[/url] + a set of second hand strings off Talkbass (£50) + some adjusters on your bridge (£20 from Gollihur [all hail!]) and fitting them (£30-£50) and you are good to go. A pick up £50 second hand off Talkbass again. The Gear 4 Music basses come with MAHOOSIVE "hard" (covered polystyrene) cases which one of my pupils sold on Ebay for £120 - cost of bass £220!

Yes, you can spend £sillyK on a bass and it will be lusher than a lush thing. This would come later. Crazily, a good bow will cost you upward of £1K. Once you have played with a nice one you will not want to go back. Getting a decent pizz (plucked) sound out of a DB is not rocket-science, getting a nice arco (bowed) sound is the most difficult thing (see comments about teacher above!)

Solid top vs ply. For a beginner, not a lot of difference. Ply is actually going to be more road worthy anyway. Strings and bridge height are MUCH more important.

A £450 set up is probably akin to an Encore P bass. Chuck an SD Quarter Pounder pick up into it and set it up well and in a blindfold test perhaps 5% could tell the difference between it and a "name" bass. Thrown into a live band mix, no one could tell the difference. If you are amplifying the bass then a decent set of strings/set-up and a decent pick-up with decent buffering of the pick up is WAY more important than anything else.

I have 3 pupils with these cheap and cheerful boxes. Two are going for grade 8 at the moment. Yes they would sound better with an Italian master instrument from 200 or whatever years ago (£30k+), but they just do not have the money. Would they sound 100 times better? No.

The double bass world is the same as any other instrumental community. "I would be a better player with better kit". No you would not necessarily be. You would be a better player if you practiced more and spent less time reading bass forums about what is hot and what is not. I am more guilty than most in this respect.

[jakenewmanbass]

I think that while your approach is, as you say cheap and cheerful, it is a little simplistic, and you don't have to go from one extreme to another £350 straight to £30K there are plenty of good basses for between 1K and 5K that have a really good tone and will hold their value if you buy one.
You may be happy to be 'thumping' and that is a good start, but a really nice tone on a double bass is something quite luxurious which makes the whole experience that much more enjoyable. For me, life is way too short to get by with mediocre tone.
The only reason I'm adding this is that I think many people are put off by cheap basses as they can be hard to play and often don't sound like people expect a DB to sound, although cheaper basses are sounding better these days.
Jake

[MissPenguin]

I really like the sound that my double bass makes, i'll find what make it is etc because i'm not actually sure..
But i agree, i looked around for ages till i found a bass which made a sound that i liked.
And i felt slightly mean because i didn't like the first one the shop ordered in for me.. But with that much money i decided i could afford to be choosey. And i got educational discount ^^

[Owen]

[size=1][size=2]I think that while your approach is, as you say cheap and cheerful, it is a little simplistic, and you don't have to go from one extreme to another £350 straight to £30K there are plenty of good basses for between 1K and 5K that have a really good tone and will hold their value if you buy one. [/size]
[/size]

Not simplistic, just 25 years experience of being around basses and buying for myself and for students. There are plenty of good basses out there. A £350 bass with a good set of second hand strings and a decent set up is not something that is just to be dismissed. If someone wants a DB but does not have between £1K and 5K to drop on one, should they just give up? You can do so much more than "thumping" on such an instrument.


[size=1][size=2]You may be happy to be 'thumping' and that is a good start, but a really nice tone on a double bass is something quite luxurious which makes the whole experience that much more enjoyable. For me, life is way too short to get by with mediocre tone.The only reason I'm adding this is that I think many people are put off by cheap basses as they can be hard to play and often don't sound like people expect a DB to sound, although cheaper basses are sounding better these days.
Jake[/size]
[/size]

Everybody wants the best kit possible. BUT you can get good tone from a cheaper bass with good strings. a good set up and a decent pick up. 10 years ago anything under £1k would have been not good. Times have changed. A cheap bass with cheap strings and not properly set-up will be manky. A cheap bass with decent strings and a decent set-up will be just fine and dandy. If you were playing bass guitar professionally you would probably not be using an Encore P bass (actually no good reason not to [if it is a P bass gig] other than vanity, and again I totally include myself in that statement) - but it is likely that that is where you started (or similar). If you started on an Encore then it is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY better than the disaster that my first bass guitar was.

Also not all instruments hold their value and certainly do not appreciate. The market is driven by age and condition NOT exclusively how well an instrument plays. You could have a great instrument that responds like no other. If you have a large repaired crack in it then it's value drops immediately. I am selling a 1880 (ish) 'cello at the moment. It sounds good and plays easily. It is valued by a reputable dealer at £4K. It has had a neck snap, well-repaired and rock solid for at least a quarter of a century.I cannot shift it for £2.5K. It depends on the market when you are selling. Not all expensive instruments are maintanence free. I used to have a nice old French bass that needed constant encouragement to hold together at the bottom. When I was looking to buy a new bass about 10 years ago I went round all the usual suspects in the London area. I was being offered a max of £2K on what I had and the price of anything that was SIGNIFICANTLY nicer was £8 or 9K. Dealers are out to make as much money as they can, like any other retailers, they are not doing it for the love.

[jakenewmanbass]

For what its worth I've been playing Double for 27 years professionally for 17 and I've had similar experiences regarding buying and selling as you. As it happens, I agree with most of your post and in fact I think the pricing by dealers is bordering on criminal, is not based on demand as they have lots of them stockpiled and in many cases can't shift them, and it serves as a bar to young players getting started on something decent. The only point at which I think its worth having a high financial value on a bass is to make people look after them so they last a long time, we are after all, only temporary keepers, not owners.
Cheaper basses [i]are[/i] getting better but they don't compare to hand carved instruments, (I've played basses from £250-£50,000) and I don't agree about people not being able to tell the difference. They may not really notice if your tone is average or below, but they [i]do[/i] notice if its enourmous and lovely sounding.
While we agree on most things in this thread I think the single most impotant thing those of us who are more experienced should offer as advice to the uninitiated is, try lots of basses and find one that suits your playing, feels comfortable, and sounds like you want it to sound.
If you can get all that for £500, great.
Jake

Edit:
"Also not all instruments hold their value and certainly do not appreciate. The market is driven by age and condition NOT exclusively how well an instrument plays. You could have a great instrument that responds like no other. If you have a large repaired crack in it then it's value drops immediately. I am selling a 1880 (ish) 'cello at the moment. It sounds good and plays easily. It is valued by a reputable dealer at £4K. It has had a neck snap, well-repaired and rock solid for at least a quarter of a century.I cannot shift it for £2.5K. It depends on the market when you are selling. Not all expensive instruments are maintanence free. I used to have a nice old French bass that needed constant encouragement to hold together at the bottom. When I was looking to buy a new bass about 10 years ago I went round all the usual suspects in the London area. I was being offered a max of £2K on what I had and the price of anything that was SIGNIFICANTLY nicer was £8 or 9K. Dealers are out to make as much money as they can, like any other retailers, they are not doing it for the love"

FWIW.
yes yes and yes to this. I agree

Edited March 11, 2008 by jakesbass

[guyl]

[quote name='owen' post='154831' date='Mar 10 2008, 07:42 PM']The double bass world is the same as any other instrumental community. "I would be a better player with better kit". No you would not necessarily be. You would be a better player if you practiced more and spent less time reading bass forums about what is hot and what is not. I am more guilty than most in this respect.[/quote]

Hits the nail on the head. I reckon Ray Brown would've swung pretty good if he ever played on my cheap doghouse!!