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When is good, good enough??


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I've been playing bass for two years now, and although I'm no Stanley Clarke, I wouldn't be fazed if anyone here turned up at one of our gigs. I'm taking lessons and practice for about an hour every day and I think I've got to a reasonable standard but then I see this (posted elsewhere on here by a fellow BCer)

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6wG71TR2_0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6wG71TR2_0[/url]

...and I am genuinely astounded by the dexterity and musicianship. Then I think to myself..'if I keep the lessons up and practice hard, maybe one day...'. But then reality sets in - I'll never be that good on bass, cos if I'm honest with myself, I don't really aspire to it. I'm happy just fumbling away on a Saturday night and going home with £60 in my back pocket stinking of smoke.

How good do you want to be?

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Good post mate! Well.. I'm really driven by seeing other players just 'doing great bass' whatever it may be. I want to be as good as I can I guess. I saw this young lad doing amazing fretless a while back.. I wanted to grab a fretless and copy him straight away! So, I guess as long as there are musicians (not just bass) doing stuff that gets me interested.. then I'll keep wanting to learn more. I'll never be 'good enough'. There's always going to be someone doing 'cool stuff' on bass.

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[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='9167' date='May 30 2007, 01:29 PM']I've been playing bass for two years now, and although I'm no Stanley Clarke, I wouldn't be fazed if anyone here turned up at one of our gigs. I'm taking lessons and practice for about an hour every day and I think I've got to a reasonable standard but then I see this (posted elsewhere on here by a fellow BCer)

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6wG71TR2_0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6wG71TR2_0[/url]

...and I am genuinely astounded by the dexterity and musicianship. Then I think to myself..'if I keep the lessons up and practice hard, maybe one day...'. But then reality sets in - I'll never be that good on bass, cos if I'm honest with myself, I don't really aspire to it. I'm happy just fumbling away on a Saturday night and going home with £60 in my back pocket stinking of smoke.

How good do you want to be?[/quote]

Comes down to why you do it?

To make career out of it or to enjoy yourself and get a buzz. I've given up worrying about how good I am or what others think. I just enjoy watching others enjoying themselves listening, sometimes moving, ocasionally dancing. Unless you've got a pub full of top rate musicians, nobody notices anyway.

Edited by obbm
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There's a time and a place for that kinda bass playing. I'm perfectly happy doing my thing in my band, playing the bass part and enjoying it, trying to make the band sound better as a whole. I really don't have any long term aspirations and just take each gig as it comes. I practice around an hour a day too, but have never taken lessons. I did consider it at one point though, but I'm a lot happier noodling at home than I would be with someone teaching me how to noodle!

Just keep doing what you're doing, if your band likes it and the audience likes it, then why change?

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[quote name='niceguyhomer' post='9167' date='May 30 2007, 12:29 PM']I've been playing bass for two years now, and although I'm no Stanley Clarke, I wouldn't be fazed if anyone here turned up at one of our gigs. I'm taking lessons and practice for about an hour every day and I think I've got to a reasonable standard but then I see this (posted elsewhere on here by a fellow BCer)

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6wG71TR2_0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6wG71TR2_0[/url]

...and I am genuinely astounded by the dexterity and musicianship. Then I think to myself..'if I keep the lessons up and practice hard, maybe one day...'. But then reality sets in - I'll never be that good on bass, cos if I'm honest with myself, I don't really aspire to it. I'm happy just fumbling away on a Saturday night and going home with £60 in my back pocket stinking of smoke.

How good do you want to be?[/quote]

I agree niceguyhomer, thats top class playing,i started playing in the seventies but stopped for a long time, if i had carried on i know i would be lot better than i am now, but i'm happy to just plonk along in a covers band, i'm enjoying it and thats whats important to me.

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Guest subaudio

Cool post niceguyhomer

I want to be good enough to feel that I've added something to the song but not got in the way, and has left fellow bassists nodding a bit, for Double bass I just want to play the right notes in tune !

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I want to be good enough to never turn a gig down. Guys like tony levin and other rock solid groovers are who i aspire to be like.

John Myung, Vic Wooten (his choppy stuff) and the other dudes are amazing but not really where i see myself going.

I think everyone has their own situation and if:

[quote]I'm honest with myself, I don't really aspire to it. I'm happy just fumbling away on a Saturday night and going home with £60 in my back pocket stinking of smoke.[/quote]

Makes you happy then you have won already.

G

ps - great post

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I think no musician is ever really content with themselves. I find i'm always raising the bar on what I should be able to and what I aspire to play. 4 years ago I wouldn't have dreamt of playing some of the stuff we do due to it being beyond my ability at the time - now it just seems the norm.

If I suddenly thought I was 'good enough' to not want to improve i'd probably sell all my gear and start playing golf. :wacko:

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Ahhh a good post thisen!

I like to think I'm as passionate as most other bass players but at times I can that perhaps I'm a bit more driven than some, like some of the guys I teach and know, all have different approaches to it all, one of them seems to only practioce when I teach him but I know at the end of the day he's just focused on the band and doing his bit for the band he isn't concerned with being the enxt Wooten or anything really and I respect that, yet on the other hand, the other guy I teach is driven and is still amturing as both a bassist and musician, when I started teaching him he was cocky, arrogant and swore by only 2-3 bassists but within the first week or so of being on the music course he apologised to me and asked for serious help and i like to think with my help I've sent him on a good raod to becoming a damn good bassist, and teaching these guys does make me think that I'm an alright player, lets face facts only a few bassists will actually "Yes I am very good" but I know I can go into a room and play my bass comfortably and use the theory I know to a standard that it can impress people but then again it isn't about amazing or impressing people but it's nice to know when you have. But I know I've got a long way to go before I become the bassist I want to become, I guess its an age thing, being in the bracket of the younger guys on here we have some advantages in Youtube coming along when it did so were exposed to mroe bassists with greater ease than some fo the older guys when back in the 70's and 80's it wasn't always to easy to find out about but thats not say they not benefitting now either.

I think I just know being 18 now I have years to come which will bring new basses ,amps, new bassists and all kinds of influences and will ultimatley shape the bassist I become, it's just now I'm midly happy with what I can do and Im sepnding between 2-4 hours day practicing many things and also listening to music in great depth, and I can look back and see where I was and know i have imrpoved and all I can do is improve further, I just think sometimes some people set out to be the next Wooten or Clarke or Miller that they end up becoming a copy and realise they're not really doing anything that hasn't already been done before.

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The bassist in question is one of our very own BCers I believe.

TBH Homer I started bass when I was 14/15 and I p*ssed about making noises, eventually figuring out a bit of a 'Jam' song and it went from there. Got into a band at 17 and became a R&R slut till I was in my early 20's. At that age I was winging it and learning from everybody (I hung about in rehearsal rooms and answered every ad for 'bassist wanted'), I was probably (no, definitely) better then than I am now! When I was honest enough with myself to realise that I was never going to be a rock star I settled down musically and I'm more content.

I saw Doug Wimbish do a clinic many moons ago and I almost felt like taking a string or two off my bass as I'd never be that good but that isn't the point. I see things like that now and I can smile now and genuinely admire the playing and it does inspire me to pick up my bass but not to try and copy it, simply to try and do something a bit better or smoother. At this point in my life, seeing or hearing other musicians (not just bassists) play simply inspires me to try 'something'... and that 'something' isn't always music; art, photography, you name it.

Good shout Homie!

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I think in some ways I won't get any better and in others I'll continue to improve. I listen back to old band tapes from the eighties and wonder if I could ever be bothered to put the work in to write such complex basslines. I used to think nothing of spending a week writing a bass line to a song, every spare minute. Now that youthful enthusiasm has naturally subsided my basslines seem a little ordinary by comparison but what I've gained is experience, a knowledge that I can hold my own and there ain't much I can't play if I only put my mind to it. I play with greater assurance and these things grow and grow with age.
There are some marvelous technically proficient bass players who I have no interest in emulating - the one thing that has always motivated me is coming up with great bass parts for songs. It isn't how many notes or how clever or how fast it's how it compliments the song - that is all that ever matters. So in answer to the original point enough is never enough as long as there is another song around the corner waiting for a great bass part to be written.

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I needed a quick musical fix and I think this particular clip on the tube was interesting as I was more attuned to the dynamics between the musicians and the restrained playing while fellow musicians soloed than I was in the 2 minute bass solo that started approx 6 minutes in. Did it inspire me? Yes but only to play with the other lads in the band!

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa9qqPToBPM&NR=1"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa9qqPToBPM&NR=1[/url]

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[quote name='obbm' post='9175' date='May 30 2007, 01:38 PM']Comes down to why you do it?[/quote]

That's it.......

I used to see Jack Bruce with Cream, I have Frances Rocco Prestia DVD's and love Larry Graham and Victor Wooten, they are great to watch but I have never tried to play like them. It's not what I want to do.

There are ensemble bass players (Duck Dunn, John McVie, Nathan East, Freddie Washington, James Jamerson) and there are lead bass players (Marcus Miller, Adam Nitti etc). These are two completely seperate paths. The former are just as good at bass playing as the latter so don't confuse technique with musical ability.

My style is the former, I'm a very un-busy player (not too many notes), but if I get compliments about my playing it's because what I do play is RIGHT! That makes me a happy chap.

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When I started playing, if im honest, it was purely for the purposes of fitting in with my guitarist/drummer buddies and being in a band.

As I have matured, ive grown to love my bass although I take my playing seriously enough to play for at least an hour a night, whether that be a little bit of theory practise, a bit of technique practise, or learning a song.

I am never happy with my playing and I always try to raise the bar with what I do as I want to be able to do any gig that I am offered. I am a quick learner, and thus in just under a year ive managed to get comfortable with slap and funk playing in general, to the point where i am now in a wicked funk band.

In response to your question - I want to be a kick ass bassist. I want to be noticed and recognised as a kick ass bassist. However, I know that Joe public doesnt know the difference and its only muso's that will appreciate my playing, but that doesnt stop me from trying!!!

I honestly believe that so long as I put my mind to it, I can do anything I like. Im a believer that if you keep an open mind you will acheive what you want to achieve.

The Playing in that video is fantastic, but lets face it, its a party trick - no disrespect to the player, he has talent, but for me personally tapping and solo bass is an aquired taste. I couldnt play like that, but there are things i can pull off that I know will make people smile (and no, im not talking about my trousers.)

The point is that there are so many different methods of expressing yourself - whether it be making a song groove, backing up a band, or taking the limelight and kicking out a killer solo.

Whatever yu do, so long as you enjoy yourself, whats the issue?

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I think it's important to get to a stage where you are happy with the way you play, ie your sound, and your approach. Obviously we all want to improve certain aspects, to learn new styles and techniques, that will continue forever, but it's not true that none of us are ever happy, or that getting there isn't possible, otherwise I don't think it'd be worth bothering with.

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[quote name='chris_b' post='9270' date='May 30 2007, 03:29 PM']That's it.......

I used to see Jack Bruce with Cream, I have Frances Rocco Prestia DVD's and love Larry Graham and Victor Wooten, they are great to watch but I have never tried to play like them. It's not what I want to do.

There are ensemble bass players (Duck Dunn, John McVie, Nathan East, Freddie Washington, James Jamerson) and there are lead bass players (Marcus Miller, Adam Nitti etc). These are two completely seperate paths. The former are just as good at bass playing as the latter so don't confuse technique with musical ability.

My style is the former, I'm a very un-busy player (not too many notes), but if I get compliments about my playing it's because what I do play is RIGHT! That makes me a happy chap.[/quote]

Thank you for putting so concisely what I should have said in my first post on this subject. It's all the song and what is right for the song.

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I don't consider myself a great player. I can be studious when I need to be in order to learn/play a song required of me. However, the sort of stuff Nathan has posted on youtube blows me away. Great technique and application. I would have to apply myself for an awful long time to get anywhere near that standard. Real life (work/family and time) prohibits me from doing so.
I guess I'm happy enough plodding along with what I'm doing. The lads in the band seem happy enough with what I can come up with. It suits the music we play and whilst not technically mindblowing I concentrate on feeling the kickdrum and getting into the pocket so to speak. I pride myself in doing that VERY well.
So, yeah, I'm happy with my limited ability!

Edited by tombboy
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Good question.

I want to achieve two things with my bass playing.

1) I want to be able to lock in with any drummer at a jam or proto band, and form a competent enough pocket that it feels like a 'band' rather than two instruments.

2) I want to be able to write basslines that are interesting, that would be a bit different to what another bass player would have written. That is to say, my presence in the band is positive not only because I hold it together and make it sound nice and band-y (as most good bassists could) but also that I bring enough of my own personality to it that I feel like I'm putting a stamp on the music.

I don't really have the same heroes as most people on this board - I'd be Peter Hook or Kim Deal over Jaco or Wooten. I most admire the kind of bassists who write recogisable lines, but people who don't even know what a bass is still dance to their music.

As I get better, I become more aware of my flaws. When I started out I had no awareness of just how out-of-time I was playing. As I play better and better in time, the slivers where I am out of time seem bigger and bigger. Does that make sense? So the better I get, the larger the mistakes I make seem, relative to the objective errors.

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I'd love to be able to play with the facility of Dood. But it must take an astounding amount of self discipline and tenaciousness to reach that level, and then the standard has to be [i]maintained[/i] at that level by frequent practice and gigging.

Much like slaphappygarry and OBBM say, I see "being good enough" is about having sufficient technical and musical facility to play what the song needs. The style of music I play isn't particularly demanding in terms of speed but I have to be super accurate with my timing (because often a neo-soul bassline I play won't come exactly in on the first beat in a bar) and make sure I don't push other musicians out by overplaying.

I'm developing an ever greater awareness of what makes the song strong and playing bass is getting easier and less frustrating as a result. That involves using the notes to define the feeling and shape of the spaces inbetween (if I'm not riffing in time with the guitarist).

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It makes me happy when someone passes a compliment on my band's performance, as i work hard on my contribution.
Whilst I have respect for players who wish to advance to a higher level individually, it's not what drives me personally.

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[quote name='wayne58' post='9371' date='May 30 2007, 05:19 PM']It makes me happy when someone passes a compliment on my band's performance, as i work hard on my contribution.
Whilst I have respect for players who wish to advance to a higher level individually, it's not what drives me personally.[/quote]

The one I like best is "sh*t.. you guys are TIGHT"

Richard
VASQUEZ

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