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Today I played Herbie Flower's 1959 Jazz Bass


Plux_the_Duck
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[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1386617076' post='2302272']
TBH, I am struggling to give a toss here. Its a lovely old Jazz bass with history written all over it, played by a great bass player and it was made before everything was bar-coded and inter-webbed. So the best we have to go on is the word of the man who has owned it from new.
[/quote]

Exactly. :)

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[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1386618408' post='2302297']
By the way, here are some pics of a Fender-endorsed '59 prototype. Presumably, Herbie's followed this...

Yep - it has a Precision decal...





[/quote]

It looks like your Roscoe Beck....Surely shum mishtake?!

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[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1386442261' post='2300251']



A curious bass.
[/quote]

Herbie looks uncannily like Mick Jagger (late young period, before middle age set in).

Anyway I prefer Herbie's tuba playing - Tuba Smarties is v good. Actually that's not strictly true - I love his playing on Space Oddity and several other tracks as well.

He's part of English bass guitar folk lore along with Jet Harris and John Paul Jones...........we shouldn't fall out over the age of his old Fender as it matters so little - it's old and interesting.

For those arguing about prototypes, there are prototypes and pre production prototypes - there were a few of both in the case of the Musicman Stingray. Look at car models - you'll find examples of both. I'm inclined however to go along with Ricks Fine 52's view of this bass.

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I think that the key here is that Herbie Flowers, a bassist of some note, let a young lad have a go on his 50+ year old bass. A rather special gesture imo that warms me to the man.

It's a Fender Jazz, not a work of art or in fact any more than a very basic instrument in terms of materials of construction methods. What perhaps make it a work of art (yes I'm contradicting myself) or of any interest is it's history. That history some will find fascinating, some won't. I'd class myself as interested but not besotted and not particularly a fan of the big F for Fender.

If Mr Flowers gives a specific date and place where he bought the bass then I can see how it has transmogriphied over the years to the extent that it might not make complete sense as if it were completely original. Given that he's so specific who are we to challenge it unless we get off on putting people down?

Well done Mr Flowers! I very rarely visit BC nowadays despite having been a member for yonks (and a member of several pre-cursers). On reading some threads here I'm reminded why. So this is a rare contribution.

Peter

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This forum should be renamed anorak chat.

I have just been reading the first couple of posts and amazed how quickly an awesome gesture by a liviing legend to a young lad just starting out on his musical journey has been reduced to a slanging match over the exact date and status of an equally legendary instrument.

Btw that's the longest sentence I have ever written.

Edited by great harry
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[quote name='great harry' timestamp='1387137026' post='2308586']
This forum should be renamed anorak chat.

I have just been reading the first couple of posts and amazed how quickly an awesome gesture by a liviing legend to a young lad just starting out on his musical journey has been reduced to a slanging match over the exact date and status of an equally legendary instrument.

Btw that's the longest sentence I have ever written.
[/quote]

It's called 'Basschat'. Most people are here because they're into basses more than the average Joe on the street.

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I am not arguing with that I totally respect the huge amount if collective knowledge there is here, which is why I am such an avid reader. When it comes to people trying to prove that they know more than the next guy by surmising what Fender would and wouldn't have done with a very early pre production version of an iconic guitar and then what the owner might and might not have done with it things start getting a bit silly.

It is what it is and I for I e wouldn't even consider insinuating that Herbie Flowers a incorrect because his version of the history of his guitar doesn't fit with what I might think it should be.

I bet if he reads this thread he won't be lending it to any other aspiring young musicians.

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The Fender Jazz is an iconic instrument. Which means that on a bass forum, you're going to get people who are - in varying degrees - interested in its origins and evolution. And especially when it comes to fairly controversial elements, like Herbie's bass.

You're also going to get people who don't give a monkeys. And that's fine.

Good on Herbie for letting someone try his bass, btw.

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[quote name='great harry' timestamp='1387137026' post='2308586']
This forum should be renamed anorak chat.

[/quote]

Anorak chat would be a great forum . It could encompass a wide range of topics and interests. After all, you can get up to all sorts of things in an anorak.

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  • 3 weeks later...

[quote name='Plux_the_Duck' timestamp='1281044038' post='916493']
Well at the Brighton Rockshop (which Herbie Flowers kinda leads) he said to me on tuesday, I'll bring in my '59 jazz and you can have a go, which was really cool for him to say, cos I'm only like 16 and all.

It was really easy to play for a bass with such a high action, Because of the height (and tapewound strings) it had a rather fretless-like sound.
I've never played an instrument so old and I'd like to thank Herbie for letting me have a go,
[/quote]

I bought a bass flightcase from ebay a few years ago. It has Herbie Flowers stencilled on it and loads of tour stickers Abbey Rd etc. It was kind of hinted it was his. It will fit my P but I always though it would be better suited for a Jazz. Its the heaviest case in the world! I might have the very case his 59 sat in! :D

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[quote name='itsmedunc' timestamp='1388969531' post='2328371']
I bought a bass flightcase from ebay a few years ago. It has Herbie Flowers stencilled on it and loads of tour stickers Abbey Rd etc. It was kind of hinted it was his. It will fit my P but I always though it would be better suited for a Jazz. Its the heaviest case in the world! I might have the very case his 59 sat in! :D
[/quote]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Nah ... they never made those flightcases until '63 ...[/font][/color]

;)[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color]

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I'm in the camp that will never believe in a million years its a '59. Fender had released the pics of the couple prototype Jazzes they did in late 59, they had goofy wide pickups like the Jazzmaster guitar, and so many details that didn't look like a production Jazz Bass at all. Remember, the production Jazz debuet in May 60, and Herbies bass looks very much in every way like a production bass and not like either of the prototypes.

On a somewhat related claim, my uncle gave me a Precision Bass that he claims all day long he bought new in 1979. When I took it apart it says 1982. He'll argue "no way!" but every component on it is dated 1982. :rolleyes:

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  • 5 months later...

[quote name='Plux_the_Duck' timestamp='1281044038' post='916493']
Well at the Brighton Rockshop (which Herbie Flowers kinda leads) he said to me on tuesday, I'll bring in my '59 jazz and you can have a go, which was really cool for him to say, cos I'm only like 16 and all.

It was really easy to play for a bass with such a high action, Because of the height (and tapewound strings) it had a rather fretless-like sound.
I've never played an instrument so old and I'd like to thank Herbie for letting me have a go,
[/quote]

Err, I think this started as a happy thread, sadly ruined by argumentative pendants.

What a shame. Herbie would probably tell you to shut up and stop bickering.

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[quote name='planer' timestamp='1403014999' post='2478855']
Err, I think this started as a happy thread, sadly ruined by argumentative pendants.

What a shame. Herbie would probably tell you to shut up and stop bickering.
[/quote]

There's not much bickering, but a lot of informed discussion about the genesis of one of the most iconic musical instruments there is.

Which, for a bass forum, isn't that surprising.

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[quote name='planer' timestamp='1403014999' post='2478855']
Err, I think this started as a happy thread, sadly ruined by argumentative pendants.
[/quote]

Ruined?! How is it ruined? I've learned a lot by reading this thread - a lot more than I would have learned from a twee "Isn't Herbie Flowers a top gent" thread.

(Not that I'm suggesting that he [i][b]isn't[/b][/i] a top gent of course!)

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[quote name='Rayman' timestamp='1281213368' post='918361']
Ha ha ha, this site just amazes me sometimes. How can a great thread turn into the usual mindless BC slanging match??

Get a grip.
[/quote]

And then there was the bit where y'all argued the toss over the definition of the word prototype.

I joined this forum to learn stuff, mostly what I've learnt is...I don't actually want to be here.

And this thread isn't even in Off Topic!

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[quote name='planer' timestamp='1403039996' post='2479236']
I joined this forum to learn stuff, mostly what I've learnt is...I don't actually want to be here.
[/quote]

And yet you keep popping back to tell us this? :huh:

Admit it, you love us really! :gas: :)

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  • 2 years later...

I know a lad who taught music beside Herbie down south. He told me a story of how one of the students needed a bass, and Herbie brought in the blue Jazz for him to borrow. At one point they saw the student with it outside, hauling it around without a case. One of the other staff pointed it out to Herbie who responded, "its only a bass". :lol:

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[quote name='EddieG' timestamp='1483642044' post='3208994']
I know a lad who taught music beside Herbie down south. He told me a story of how one of the students needed a bass, and Herbie brought in the blue Jazz for him to borrow. At one point they saw the student with it outside, hauling it around without a case. One of the other staff pointed it out to Herbie who responded, "its only a bass". :lol:
[/quote] of all the posts to ressurect!

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