Today I played Herbie Flower's 1959 Jazz Bass

[Plux_the_Duck]

Well at the Brighton Rockshop (which Herbie Flowers kinda leads) he said to me on tuesday, I'll bring in my '59 jazz and you can have a go, which was really cool for him to say, cos I'm only like 16 and all.

It was really easy to play for a bass with such a high action, Because of the height (and tapewound strings) it had a rather fretless-like sound.
I've never played an instrument so old and I'd like to thank Herbie for letting me have a go,

[bh2]

Cor... I must be nearly as old as Herbie... I'd love to have a go on that!

[BassBod]

That's the sort of experience you will remember for a long time....I've always heard he's a nice bloke.

[markorbit]

Wow that is a real scoop. I would love a go on that.

So it had high action and the black strings yes?

I have a 'Herbie tribute' Jazz bass that I like to get as close to his as possible. In particular I do have an issue with those Trubass 88 strings which do tend to creak a lot no matter where the action seems to be. So the action was noticeably high... hmmm.

Herbie's one of the greats.

[EBS_freak]

I played Herbie's Jazz probably a couple of years ago. To say the action is high is an understatement... but it was pretty surreal to be playing the instrument that featured on countless recording and stonking gigs. And as everybody says, he is one of the kindest guys out there and keen to help out all budding musos.

A true gent.

[The Bass Doc]

Just interested to know how it's quoted as a '59 when the Jazz was apparently introduced in 1960?

Maybe the next BCer to have a go could whip the neck off and look for a date?

[jezzaboy]

Anytime I have read about the guy or when I have seen him on interviews, he always comes across as a right decent guy. Really good of him to give you a shot of a piece of bass history.

Jez

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='917266' date='Aug 6 2010, 06:19 PM']Just interested to know how it's quoted as a '59 when the Jazz was apparently introduced in 1960?

Maybe the next BCer to have a go could whip the neck off and look for a date? [/quote]
According to [url="http://curtisnovak.com/vintage/JazzBass59/"]this website[/url], Herbie claims to have bought the Jazz bass on October 12th 1959 from Manny's in New York and that it's a prototype. It even had a fuzz circuit in it.

Edited August 6, 2010 by EssentialTension

[Stacker]

if it was a 1959 prototype in the true sense of the word it would have had the VVT circuit, as opposed to the stacks.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Plux_the_Duck' post='916493' date='Aug 5 2010, 10:33 PM']Well at the Brighton Rockshop (which Herbie Flowers kinda leads) he said to me on tuesday, I'll bring in my '59 jazz and you can have a go, which was really cool for him to say, cos I'm only like 16 and all.

It was really easy to play for a bass with such a high action, Because of the height (and tapewound strings) it had a rather fretless-like sound.
I've never played an instrument so old and I'd like to thank Herbie for letting me have a go,[/quote]
Very nice, maybe I should go to one of those Brighton Rockshops.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Stacker' post='917330' date='Aug 6 2010, 07:40 PM']if it was a 1959 prototype in the true sense of the word it would have had the VVT circuit, as opposed to the stacks.[/quote]
I'm not sure what you mean by 'true sense of the word' but some of the prototypes also had Jazzmaster style soap bar pickups, 4-pole at the bridge and 5-pole at the neck:



The one in the picture does appear to have the VVT control setup.

But I would have thought that if Fender were building various prototypes then it would not be impossible that they built Flowers' bass as a prototype. With Fender, never say never.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='917254' date='Aug 6 2010, 05:07 PM']I played Herbie's Jazz probably a couple of years ago. To say the action is high is an understatement... but it was pretty surreal to be playing the instrument that featured on countless recording and stonking gigs. And as everybody says, he is one of the kindest guys out there and keen to help out all budding musos.

A true gent.[/quote]
+1

I played it in 2006.

[Cat Burrito]

He's great on the Lou Reed video when he explains why he double tracked his bass (to get two fees). So unassuming. He always comes across as a top bloke

[51m0n]

[quote name='The Bass Doc' post='917266' date='Aug 6 2010, 06:19 PM']Just interested to know how it's quoted as a '59 when the Jazz was apparently introduced in 1960?

Maybe the next BCer to have a go could whip the neck off and look for a date? [/quote]


All is explained [url="http://www.curtisnovak.com/vintage/JazzBass59/"]here[/url] EDIT to say sorry to be so much later than the previous pointer in this direction, I was at a gig....

Plux got to play it at the gig on about 5 songs too. Fantastic gig all round. 46 songs in about 3 hours, different band for every song, including string sections, wind instruments, keys, and a brilliant song about a rabbit meeting an untimely end under a bus. Fantastic evening, and made all the more amazing watching my son grooving away like mad on the bass that is on a million hits. To say Herbie is a nice bloke is an understatement of mind boggling proportions! At one point he told Plux that he didnt have to ask him to have a go on it, just pick up and use it. Wow!

Edited August 6, 2010 by 51m0n

[Stacker]

[quote name='EssentialTension' post='917395' date='Aug 6 2010, 08:44 PM']I'm not sure what you mean by 'true sense of the word' but some of the prototypes also had Jazzmaster style soap bar pickups, 4-pole at the bridge and 5-pole at the neck:



The one in the picture does appear to have the VVT control setup.

But I would have thought that if Fender were building various prototypes then it would not be impossible that they built Flowers' bass as a prototype. With Fender, never say never.[/quote]

There can only be [i]one[/i] prototype. A [i]prototype[/i] is the first and original design of what all other designs follow on from. There cannot possibly be two. I have, a very long time ago, seen a photo of that model to which you refer to. That's not a prototype: it's a hotchpotch of a P-bass, a Jazz body and Jazzmaster pups and who knows what kind of circuit. If so, it's not an orginal model or archetype or whatever you want to call it. I, personally, think that was a Friday afternoon on the Corona knock-up. The first prototype has to be the Jazz bass as we know if its got the Jazz neck and nut width, the 2 kit-kat single coils, the Jazz body shape and the VVT layout. Anything else is bastardized and is not a prototype/archetype.

However, I'll agree with your last statement 100%, though admitting the possibilty that Fender - even then - would shove in a fuzz box circuit into a prototype.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Stacker

[EBS_freak]

I seem to recall him saying that the fuzz circuit was switched via a switch mounted on the scratch plate. Certainly in keeping with the pics...

[chris_b]

[quote name='Stacker' post='917595' date='Aug 7 2010, 12:33 AM']....There can only be [i]one[/i] prototype. A [i]prototype[/i] is the first and original design of what all other designs follow on from. There cannot possibly be two....[/quote]
Eh?

There can be as many prototypes as a manufacturer wants to make!

Another Herbie fact: He used to stick a fat wad of foam under the strings for recording.

[Stacker]

[quote name='chris_b' post='917600' date='Aug 7 2010, 12:43 AM']Eh?

There can be as many prototypes as a manufacturer wants to make!

Another Herbie fact: He used to stick a fat wad of foam under the strings for recording.[/quote]

What do you mean 'EH'?

Try this:-

[url="http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chref.py/main?query=archetype&title=21st&sourceid=Mozilla-search"]Dictionary[/url]

You've just contradicted yourself.

And why would Herbie do that with the foam on that bass when, if it WAS a prototype, you can still see where the string mutes were screwed into the body behind the rear pup??

Edited August 6, 2010 by Stacker

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='chris_b' post='917600' date='Aug 7 2010, 12:43 AM']Another Herbie fact: He used to stick a fat wad of foam under the strings for recording.[/quote]

Kev fact: I did that today when I was recording.

That Jazz looks really cool. Anyone know what those strings are?

[51m0n]

Right back at you:-

[url="http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chref.py/main?query=prototype&title=21st"]prototype[/url]


prototype noun 1 an original model [b]from which later forms are copied, developed or derived[/b]. 2 a first working version, eg of a vehicle or aircraft. 3 someone or something that exemplifies a type. [b]4 a primitive or ancestral form of something[/b]. prototypal adj. prototypic adj. prototypical adj. prototypically adverb.
ETYMOLOGY: 17c: from Greek prototypos primitive or original.

It is not absolutely necesarily the first working version that is a prototype, since later copies can be derived or developed, and further copies may be derived and developed from those, all before a manufacturer reaches a final version for production.

[url="http://www.ideafinder.com/history/inventors/dyson.htm"]Just ask Mr Dyson how many prototype vacuum cleaners he went through![/url]

Edited August 7, 2010 by 51m0n

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Stacker' post='917595' date='Aug 7 2010, 12:33 AM']There can only be [i]one[/i] prototype. A [i]prototype[/i] is the first and original design of what all other designs follow on from. There cannot possibly be two.[/quote]
OK, I see what you mean now. However, wouldn't it be the case that there would be an iterative series of 'prototypes' leading up to the final design which is then prepared for production? They could be called the 'alpha prototype', 'beta prototype', etc. I don't see that there literally has to be only one 'prototype' even if, etymologically, that is the Greek origin of the word.

[quote name='Stacker' post='917595' date='Aug 7 2010, 12:33 AM']I have, a very long time ago, seen a photo of that model to which you refer to. That's not a prototype: it's a hotchpotch of a P-bass, a Jazz body and Jazzmaster pups and who knows what kind of circuit. If so, it's not an orginal model or archetype or whatever you want to call it. I, personally, think that was a Friday afternoon on the Corona knock-up. The first prototype has to be the Jazz bass as we know if its got the Jazz neck and nut width, the 2 kit-kat single coils, the Jazz body shape and the VVT layout. Anything else is bastardized and is not a prototype/archetype.[/quote]
Fair enough, but the Fender website calls it a Jazz bass prototype.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='51m0n' post='917585' date='Aug 7 2010, 12:11 AM']All is explained [url="http://www.curtisnovak.com/vintage/JazzBass59/"]here[/url] EDIT to say sorry to be so much later than the previous pointer in this direction, I was at a gig....

Plux got to play it at the gig on about 5 songs too. Fantastic gig all round. 46 songs in about 3 hours, different band for every song, including string sections, wind instruments, keys, and a brilliant song about a rabbit meeting an untimely end under a bus. Fantastic evening, and made all the more amazing watching my son grooving away like mad on the bass that is on a million hits. To say Herbie is a nice bloke is an understatement of mind boggling proportions! At one point he told Plux that he didnt have to ask him to have a go on it, just pick up and use it. Wow![/quote]
Cool, I should have been there.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='917604' date='Aug 7 2010, 12:59 AM']Kev fact: I did that today when I was recording.

That Jazz looks really cool. Anyone know what those strings are?[/quote]
They look like Roto Trubass.

[King Tut]

Let's not get hung up on the semantics of 'prototype'! It's about herbie's bass and him letting the OP play it. Herbie says it's a 'prototype' - that's enough for me!

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='King Tut' post='917623' date='Aug 7 2010, 01:34 AM']Let's not get hung up on the semantics of 'prototype'! It's about herbie's bass and him letting the OP play it. Herbie says it's a 'prototype' - that's enough for me![/quote]
It was enough for me too.