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I mean 'don't get it' in why do we need it we sound fine without it not in you don't understand the principles I was talking in general about comp/eq what can benefit one instrument can benefit a band. Your original post was about compressing the bass live. Without revisiting d.i., tube amps etc etc and every type of compression being generated by all the pieces of the signal chain..The whole band will be compressed live if the sound man has a capability or capacity to do so as it will make the mix better. If you want to do it at 'stage level' it's down to the band and players. In my choir band we have compression going on - me, the guitars, the fiddle all via their fx boards/pedals- not very much but enough to season the mix. Let's the cleans sparkle a bit, tightens up the drive, keeps acoustic guitars in check (though that's usually via di to the desk with...yup.. comp). We all noticed when the fiddle player got a new Zoom unit and the fiddle just sat better than the previous set up. With the new unit she sounded like she was part of the band 'in the mix' not on top of the mix. Hard to quantify but it was audible in the room. If you guys want individual compression you'd have to supply yours via pedals individually or via out board etc for the band. You could hook up a comp to aux on your desk but a universal setting wouldn't cover the individual needs of each channel i.e. what works for acoustic may not be useful for vox. Our desk is a Presonus 16.0.2. If you guys are upgrading in the future and they're pretty reasonable second hand. Certainly worth a look down the road. A band volume is usually dictated by the drums. If the guitar is louder than the drums then maybe the guitarist should rethink his eq and volume. If the PA is only for vox/acoustic then it again should be set to match the drummer and blend in with the whole mix. We never really need to be as loud as we think we should. I've done numerous gigs where the guitarist has had a Blues Jr 15w on stage and it was plenty with decent monitors. We can all take responsibility for our own sound be that with or without a comp on the board. A good sound man may have less to do if he's getting a good source to begin with - from me it's normally a straight d.i. - FOH is his business, on stage with the band mix is mine.

As long as you've got your Elf, that's the main thing.

I think this is a very interesting yet false conclusion from what I said before :). As I said, you cannot hear subtle level differences very well soloed, your ears are compressing anything loud anyway. However masking can occur between any instruments in a mix at any and all volume levels. If you set up a compressor 'just so' you get a slightly different envelope to your output. That can change the level by just a dB or so from where it was at that point in the note duration without compression, adding sustain/punch to your tone, which means that the other instruments that were masking you no longer do in the same way at the same time. Your overall level is the same, but your level during a note is different. Yes the change can be tiny, but the effect of doing so is actually huge in the context of the mix. Crucially this difference in the mix is experienced at all volumes. So in the chaos of a pub gig a compressor set up correctly can help you be heard more clearly in the mix without you turning up as loud, because you are heard better where you need to be than before. Net result, quieter instrumentation because less volume wars since less masking, hence easier monitoring for the band, most importantly a better mix for the punters = everyone happier. Eq should be used in much the same way, frequency mixing has been the norm for decades, used correctly it is about cutting unnecessary/unpleasant/masking frequencies from instrument A so that instrument B can be heard without having to increase its volume everywhere or boost its eq unnaturally. By the way the human ear hears boosts as more unnatural than cuts when eq-ing, you can use much tighter frequency ranges when cutting than when boosting without everything sounding horrid. Compression should be thought of as a way to help do this with the level change during the duration of the note, rather than at a given moment in time. Eq is the opposite, it is 'always on'. And I haven't even mentioned dynamic equalisation yet, which is a real head-flip!

Great question. And this exposes my lack of knowledge as someone who is a (purely amateur!) studio engineer first and bass player second! So the gear I'm most familiar with is rack-mounted or software-based, not in foot pedal form. I am aware of the Cali 76 and that gets a lot of praise from the music community. LA-2A style compressors are much more rare in pedal form and I have no personal experience of using any of them... but you might want to check out some of these: http://www.effectrode.com/pc-2a-compressor/pc-2a-compressor-in-depth/ http://www.diamondpedals.com/products/compressor/ http://www.joemeek.com/floorq.html http://www.demeteramps.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=53 http://www.oldworldaudio.com/gear/1960.html If your live rig has scope for rack-mounted gear, then a good option might also be the Golden Age Project COMP-2A. That's perhaps the most gig-ready and 'affordable' LA-2A style compressor that I'm aware of (and by 'affordable' I'm still talking £560, so not cheap). Welcome to the world of compressor GAS. Please leave your credit card at the door

Right, compressor talk 102 in short then (if you know this stuff, skip it etc etc etc):- OK so there are 5 not 4 parameters, and they are as follows:- THRESHOLD LEVEL (level above which the compressor starts compressing) ATTACK TIME (time taken to reach n% of your total compression ratio, this is complicated by the fact that different circuits do this with different curves and get closer to 100% of the ratio by this time) RELEASE TIME (time to turn the ratio back down to 1:1 after the signal drops below the threshold) RATIO (slope) (amount that the compressor prevents the sound getting as loud as it would otherwise, ie 4:1 means the output is 1/4 of what it would have been) MAKE UP GAIN (level) (amount of gain to apply to the signal after compression, its always on though, not only when the threshold is exceeded) If you are looking to add a little 'something' extra to your bass tone, but don't have hella ears/metering/experience then I suggest this process:- Initial set up (this is actually all about setting the threshold level very accurately):- Set the attack to about 20ms, the release to 200ms the ratio to max (at least 10:1), make up gain leave at unity (0)dB Then playing at a quietish level on the A string lower the threshold slowly until either you first meter light (3dB) lights up or you hear it start to squeeze the volume. OK, this is entirely unusable right now, except from now on pretty much every note you play normally will start to compress (oh my God, think of the poor dynamics!!!) Second stage to set up:- So, we now set the ratio way back down to as low as it goes (1.5 to 1, or 2:1 are good) Set the attack back to about 50ms Set the release to about 45ms Play normal stuff. Turn the compressor off, and on, try and equalise the volume with the make up gain so that the volume is consistent whether the compressor is off or on. Now if you need a bit more 'bite' to your tone open up the attack a little, if the initial transient peak is too loud, or you want to hear the compression happen when you dig in then speed up the attack (faster than 25ms will getting very frustrating dynamics freaks!) If you feel your playing is choked by this lower the ratio, if you feel its not doing enough in the mix try raising the ratio very slighty (2.5:1 would be an absolute maximum) If you play streams of notes one after another legato and the attack of the first note is loud compared to the following notes' transients shorten the release even more (10ms is fine), I play a lot of 16th note lines, my release time is very very short Don't worry if you only see the 3dB light when you slam the strings as hard as you can, you know you are always compressing, just slightly, and just the meat of the note, after the initial transient peak. There you go you've effectively emulated a tube channel that is creeping in to saturation, on the meat of the note but left your transients untouched, and you aren't distorting. Hope this helps someone.

Car insurance is usually based on Social Domestic and Pleasure use. This can normally be extended at minimum cost to cover use by the Policy Holder (not any named drivers) on their employers business. For most of us weekend warriors that should be more than sufficient to cover to and from the gig. Insuring gear is always best done using a separate policy designed for the purpose and that will include cover for gear left in locked cars. Trying to extend home contents or car insurance to cover gear will, in my experience, lead to problems should you ever need to claim. N

In that case just buy another BB2 and run 1, 2 or 3.

A week ago I played Quando Quando Quando in a social club Last Friday I played two sets of original material in a theatre full of people who had paid decent money to see us. Tomorrow I'm playing a set of Christmas Carols in a Cathedral. In a few days' time, I'll be playing Sweet Child of Mine to a bunch of drinkers down the Dog'n'Duck. Y'know, what? I love playing the bass. If I didn't, I wouldn't do it.

Thanks Gav. Cheers for saying that you think we sound good in the tracks you've heard, that's kind...if any of the rest of you are interested then I've uploaded a couple of vids on my profile, so you can agree / disagree. But as I say we have a relatively simple approach to our sound and thus far compressing the bass has not featured. But it's not that any of us are too thick to 'get' compression, it's more a case of does it really make any difference in your typical pub gig? Am I correct in thinking what you are recommending is using compression for the full band and not the just bass player? That is taking it to whole another level. If you have a relatively simple mixing desk with EQ (as we do) with no in-built compression, how are you proposing to include band level compression? I think the earlier comments of not being too loud hold true generally. There are three drivers to how loud a band is: how loud the drummer is; how loud the guitarist is; how loud the PA has been turned up. It's almost NEVER driven by how loud the bass player is in my experience - bassists typically adjust their volumes to fit in with the rest of the band, right? Making sure we bassists cut through the mix - well it's the opposite of being muddy isn't it? Strings, pups, cab, playing technique, not using an Orange head, making sure the mids are set at a reasonable level and not scooped are IMHO the BIG factors. They are the omelette. Compression may well add a bit of seasoning at the end - particularly with your suggestion of it being done at a band level (if I've understood you correctly) and by a competent sound engineer rather than just a pedal on the bassist's board.

If folks are interested there's one for sale in Germany. Not mine's though it's going nowhere

A couple more.

I never wanted to play covers but I have to admit doing so has made me a far better player, I've had to improve rather that stay within my limits.

Eveyone's a winner - we never send you home empty handed on this show

For small gigs and practice I use my main amp. It has a volume control.

I know mate... too much time on Gearslutz for me too DBX is nice though. I don't have one myself but have borrowed one (500 series). Relatively cheap too. Oh bollocks... I'm getting GAS and I'm not even on Gearslutz!

Oh gawd, that's a can of worms in itself! I suppose the general consensus is that it's good to run bass signals through a fast FET compressor (to tame the loudest peaks) and then into a slower LA-2A style tube-opto compressor to kind of 'smooth things over'. That tends to help bring out the bass tones we're familiar with in many of our favourite recordings. But there are lots of ways to skin this particular cat

Andy - the 'Wizard of Osmo'

Last night I played at Newcastle Cathedral as part of a concert raising money for a cancer charity. There was music, comedy and Christmassy stuff. Amongst other things, we were asked if we would do Fairytale of New York with a wonderful guest vocalist. I love the song, but it's pretty complex, and we only had piano, acoustic guitar, bass and voices to make it work. But I think it came out pretty well...

OK, this thread is making my warts bleed and I'm going to unfollow it for the good of my mental health. I don't like using a bass compressor pedal live. That is all! Enjoy going round in circles for the rest of the day folks, I've got stuff to do!

Fixed it for you... the Warwicks are just Spector copies

I will concede that most bassists don't really have an understanding of all this, its not a dig at bassists, its just the truth, then again neither do guitarists, or any instrumentalist at all. Sound engineers should, its one of the big four bread and butter parts of the job: mic'ing, eq'ing, dynamics control and space are all there is to sound engineering, add a dose of psychology and you are golden.

The only issue you here is a question over the copyright of the photos

I've only used them a couple of times, and not for anything major / expensive. I found they were fine, and most of all.... reliable However, you certainly got a result there GreeneKing! That's great - Merry Christmas

Yes, well done Alan, the accolades are deserved.

Thanks mr H I just had to dig a little deeper

Another recommendation for @KiOgon if you lack soldering skills. Ki0gons solderless looms are more or less idiot proof. I have the technical skills of a drunk koala and managed to install mine in about 10 minutes.

My cat loves Vulfpeck. He always wanders into the room when I'm playing one of their tunes

Well done Alan. I remember he came down all the way from the Borders to our first Yorkshire Bass Bash a few years ago. ......Nice to see a Bass in BGM that actually exists ( this comment refers to my Topic 'Vote and Win') regarding 3 Jackson Basses that were offered as prizes by BGM.

" My " Ex BQUAD ... Oh for a better preamp ..... Gary

My whole family lived in a 4 x 10. You know, the classic old two up, two down.

that's basically were i stand. no issues with people who do love playing covers but it doesn't flick my switch as much as the writing and performance of my own/my bands own stuff. we're all different and play for different reasons, that's ok in my book.

And he we are again, what are transparent compressors good for in a pub band? Not about to try and teach anyone to suck eggs, if you know this stuff, sorry for the post, if you are not really interested please skip it, if you want to know why a compressor might help you in a live situation when it apparently 'does nothing' or 'kills my dynamics' then feel free to have a read. Its like a very cut down compressor 101 chat I gave once, which some of you are still scarred by..... Originally compression was supposed to be a transparent tool to prevent an engineer from having to ride a fader throughout a take or a mix. All it was supposed to do was keep that level more even - as often as not by just slightly modifying the envelope of the input sound, hence the attack and release control. And with VCA compressors they pretty much achieved it. But before VCA compressors there were Vari-mu compressors (real tube compressors), Optical compressors and FET compressors. All these types have pluses and minuses, they all have different attack and release curves all of which do more than just transparently alter volume and help out an engineer. On top of these types of compressor there is tape compression and and amp/driver compression - no driver is completely compression free when you push it hard, no amp is compression free when you push it hard, all overdrives and distortions and fuzzes are also compressors, just totally not transparent ones. The best ever compressor you will ever experience is the pair you have strapped on to the side of your head all day. Yes your ears/brain are simply the most powerful compressor you can buy. The quietest sound you can hear is equivalent to your ear drum moving the width or a single molecule apparently, whilst the loudest sound you can hear before deafening yourself pretty much instantly is hundreds of thousands of times louder (you need to look into the way sound pressure level measured in micro pascals and decibels work as units of measurement). That amazing set of compressors on the side of your head has an unfortunate side effect, without a direct reference you are almost totally volume blind, small changes in volume are beyond you to describe, you can not reliably perceive them. Unless they are compared to a level that has not changed and is not changing. Obviously bigger differences are easy to perceive but the differences that can make or break a mix, if you aren't listening to the the mix happening at the time, nope, not a hope. So a deliberately transparent compressor you can't hear working on your signal in isolation, until you are doing way to much with it, and thats about when you feel your dynamics disappearing, because you are doing huge amount of compression in order to hear anything much at all. In a mix way less compression would be 'enough' to change the envelope of your signal to make your instrument be easier to hear, but you aren't in a mix so in order to hear anything at all you put way too much compression on. Thing is, a studio engineer has the time and choice to select the right type of compressor for the particular part of a track he/she wants it for and then set it up just so. What it does to an instrument in a mix then is help prevent 'masking', this is where the envelope of the signal drops in such a way, either because of the player's technique or their instrument or their preferred tonal choices that some other instrument makes it hard to hear when it plays at the same time. Near the end of a mix when two instruments are masking each other I have found that a change of as little as 0.1dB can sometimes make a real difference to the way a pair of instruments sound in a mix. Back to live then. If you are trying to use a compressor to help you be heard in a mix you need very very little for it to make a difference. If you are using compression for a definite effect then you may need bucket loads. If you like your tone as it is but feel you sometimes 'disappear' in the mix and are constantly turning up, then a transparent compressor, set just right, could be the answer to the fight. But you need good critical listening skills, you need to do this 'in the mix' unless you have great metering on the pedal to help you out otherwise you probably will put too much compression on the sound in order to hear it happening. Compression is difficult to master when you are in the safe space of a mix down with no distractions and lots of time to experiment. In order to make it 'easier' to use many pedals have no 'confusing' metering and not all the required parameters to really control the compression. This is a double edged sword, no metering and 'doing it by ear' are nigh on impossible with a transparent compressor unless you are setting it up in situ in the mix. On the other hand a full featured compressor is waaay to complex for an average bassist to get the best out of, and also remember that little detail about setting it right for a particular song? Well you cant with an always on compressor, so you have to set it to help you a little bit all the time, and that's another skill. Ultra low ratio (1.5 to 1 even), very low threshold, slow-ish attack (50 to 80 ms) and fast release (less than 30ms) giving not more than 3dB total compression on the loudest parts is probably a good target for a general touch of compression type of setting on bass live IME. No you cant really hear or feel it if you are just playing solo (dont be concerned if when playing normally the 3dB light doesnt light up at all, you are still getting some compression if your threshold is set right). In the mix you will be easier to hear, whether you are a loud or quiet band. Not because of tonnes of compression but because your individual note envelopes are changed just a smidge so that the post transient part of the note envelope is a touch louder than before. Hope that makes some sense, probably not though

kate Rusby - Angels and men. Beautiful. and deep purple Infinite - made the mistake of listening at 33 1/3. made Gillan sound like some old blues man. Quite a bit better at 45.

I've had the utter pleasure of playing Doug's actual Spector and yes, it definitely does have a Jazz neck profile (as do the signature models yup) and OMG what an instrument!

The Spector and Ric are similar basses sharing an identical platform, as in laminate Maple neck-thru, Maple wings, twin pups, parallel neck with a variable profile. The Spector is what Ric could've evolved the 4000 series into had they had the mind to do it.

Love your header image, Sylvia.

Glen Campbell singing Jimmy Webb's fantastic 'Wichita Lineman': "And I need you more than want you........ And I want you for all time"

Adam then found out that Eve had been secretly chatting to James and Jaco on WhatsApp(le)..

I love the way one gets a picture of a situation and person in Joni Mitchell’s songs, like short stories. A carefully chosen and economic use of words which lead the listener to fill in the gaps:

Well our toilet went crazy yesterday afternoon The plumber he said ‘never flush a tampon’ This great information cost me half a week’s pay And the toilet blew up later on the next day Frank Zappa

Cannons roared, in the valley they thundered While the guns lit up the night Then it rained and both sides wondered Who is wrong and who is right? On the wire like a ragged old scarecrow Bloody hands and broken back When they fire, see him pirouette solo Jump in time to the rat-a-tat What a night though it's one of seven What a night for the dancing dead What a night to be called to heaven What a picture to fill your head To fill your head By the wall in silhouette standing Through a flash of sudden light Cigarette from his mouth just hanging Paper square to his heart pinned tight Gather 'round, reluctant marksmen One of them to take his life With a smile he gives them pardon Leaves the dark and takes the light What a night though it's one of seven What a night for the dancing dead What a night to be called to heaven What a picture to fill your head To fill your head They dispatch their precious cargo And knock him back right off his feet And they pray may no one follow Better still to face the beast When the field has become a garden And the wall has stood the test Children play and the dogs run barking Who would think or who would guess? What a night though it's one of seven Le mort dansant What a night for the dancing dead What a night to be called to heaven What a picture to fill your head To fill your head Les Morts Dansant by Magnum, the most thought filling lyrics i`ve ever heard and a brilliant song to boot.

I`m having more fun doing originals than I ever did playing covers. I`m getting to play with bands that I`ve liked since I was a kid, play festivals, play European countries, and have met some great people along the way, including finding some great new bands that are now amongst my faves. Playing in covers bands was great too, wouldn`t knock it, just prefer what I`m currently doing.

Thundercat: ‘Drunk’

Keep you doped with religion and sex and TVAnd you think you're so clever and classless and freeBut you're still f*****g peasants as far as I can seeA working class hero is something to beA working class hero is something to be

Not exactly changed my world at the time , but certainly let me know I wasn't alone in it , which helps sometimes billy bragg , a New England

del amitri

"Who knows where the time goes..?" (Sandy Denny, Fairport Convention...)