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So you can do it quickly silently at a gig. There's nothing more irritating or amateur than the tuning song.

I always liked the sound of my bass through a PA anyway, in fact bass straight into the desk is probably my favourite bass tone! Pros and cons of swapping an amp out for an FRFR (for me anyway) are as follows: Pros - Can carry the entire thing with one hand. - Loads of better placement options on stage especially if you're tall, points at your head and can be put anywhere down to small size. - Sounds similar to what the audience hear, a clear representation of my bass. - Works very well with existing DI/EQ pedals and pedalboards. - Was £100 better off after selling my bass amp. - Takes up much less space in the house. - Set up in a couple of minutes. Cons - Doesn't look as nice as my old Markbass rig. I can't emphasize the placement part enough, I've always struggled with hearing myself due to being tall which was corrected when I got the MarkBass Club cabs as they tilt back. However that posed a new problem as I either had to find space where I could have 3ft of bass cabs on the floor or have one on top of the other in a wedge position. The small size of the QSC completely eliminates this, it fits in between the legs of our lights stand so even on a tiny stage there is always room for it, I can have it at the front of stage pointing back and it doesn't look out of place too. Worth noting that my amp is purely for stage monitoring, we have a decent RCF PA which does all the donkey work and I was using compact DI/EQ boxes like the Fishman and MXR M80 to DI directly without any amp sims. Swapping my amp out for an FRFR was the logical step for me, should have done it years ago.

Gorgeous looking bass, haven't tried one for sound though. Here's mine ;-)

Bristol, 2011 The last audition I had was for a band that the drummer who was in my jazz band had joined about six months previously. The band had regular gigs but didn't have a bass player up to that point as there 'wasn't enough money to pay a fourth person'. Anyway, they wanted a double bass player and the drummer wanted me in the band so he booked a local rehearsal space and the singer/guitarist drove the 60 miles from his home to Bristol for the occasion (which he moaned about all the way through the audition). I'd learnt the songs from the album the band had just recorded - it was pretty easy as there was no bass on the album, so I could just do what I wanted and it was all Johnny Cash style G/C/D stuff. Easy peasy. The singer/frontman bailed out of the session half an hour before it was due to start as he'd forgotten he was supposed to be playing football. No problem says drummer, the guitarist can sing the other guys parts. The audition got underway and everything seemed good to me. The drummer was mostly playing along with the guitar as that's the sound they had evolved without a bass player, but the drummer and I had been playing jazz together for the past three years so I wasn't bothered about having to play along to a non-standard drum part. The guitarist wasn't happy though..... when the drummer asked him how he felt it was going, all he could say was 'I dunno - it's not what I was expecting'. Further questioning from the drummer revealed that he actually didn't know what to expect as he'd only ever done solo stuff and had never played in an actual band before this one and had never played with a bass player before. No problem says the drummer, we'll have a proper rehearsal next week, before the next gig with singer/frontman and we'll see how much better it is. Fast forward to next weeks rehearsal, the frontman/singer bails again because he has a hangover... so we go ahead anyway and rehearse the set. Drummer is happy, I'm reasonably happy but guitarist still doesn't know if I sound like he thinks he wants it to sound, even though he can't explain to me what that sound is. He's also demonstrating an alarming tendency to be unable to remember which key the songs should be in. Drummer reckons we're all sorted for the gig next week. I'm less convinced. Alarm bells should be ringing - I've not yet met this flaky singer/frontman who I'll meet for the first time at the gig next week and the guitarist is still being very non-committal about whether I'm in the band or not. it's only my faith in the drummer and his insistence that 'everything will be cool' that I'm not walking away - but it's not looking good from my perspective The gig comes round and I meet the singer/frontman for the first time. He's actually a pretty cool bloke and apologises for not being at the audition/rehearsal, but admits that as he's never been in a band with a bass player before, he would have no idea if I was any good or not and therefore would have no meaningful input to make. Fair enough really. The gig goes pretty well, the band's fans say they love the addition of bass, so I'm in if I want it..... 7 years later I'm still in this band. we do 60+ gigs a year and have released four albums. Not all auditions from hell end up staying in hell. The original guitarist is gone though - he whinged one too many times about having to drive to Bristol for 2 gigs and two rehearsals a year.

I think a lot of people are thinking these FRFR cabs are just like the crappy old tops they've got lying around.

Here's Rhino Edwards using his set along side Jim Kirkpatrick's at the Shepherds Bush Empire in January: Rhino's Revenge. They were guests of King King. Plenty of photos of Alan Nimmo using his Smooth Hound wireless here. There's many more professionals using the set all over the world on big stages and small.

The sound through the on stage monitor may not be identical to the sound out front but provided it’s of comparable quality to the rest of your PA it’ll get you much closer than the typical coloured bass cab will. As with most things you tend to get what you pay for, so there’s no use expecting a dirt cheap monitor to match up sound-wise to a multi-thousand pound PA projecting out front, or vice versa. And of course, even if your on stage monitor is the same make and model as your PA tops, the characteristics of the room will affect the sound out front to some degree. If you’re playing at a smaller venue then the tone coming out of your monitor (now serving as backline) is what the audience is also hearing. Simples Granted, using “house” stage monitors and PA might throw a spanner in the works as you’re at the mercy of whatever they give you. For me I guess it’s just about eliminating variables. I’ve always preferred to have all my tone shaping from my basses and pedals. In that sense, me and the rest of the converts in this thread are certainly in the minority of bassists as a whole. However, I will say that since more and more pro bassists and pro guitarists (the kind who play truly massive venues and do national/international tours) are running amp modellers into FRFR monitors or in ears that there’s probably some method to our madness. Consistency of sound from venue to venue, ease of setup/tear down, cleaning up of the stage space and making the sound guy/gal’s job easier out front. Very few of us in this thread are at that level of gigging but clearly we still feel the advantages even though we’re only playing in our bedrooms or down at the Dog & Duck. Also, bear in mind that everyone here who is now happily living the FRFR life has had experience owning and playing through traditional amps and cabs, and having compared the two experiences are finding the monitor route to be better for them. I’d say that it’s easy to be a skeptic from afar with no meaningful experience of the very thing being criticised. You just have to try both to be able to form a balanced argument on the matter. @stingrayPete1977‘s comments above are totally accurate. These RCFs will stand toe to toe with bass rigs of the same driver size and win every time for both volume and heft. I’d challenge you, @Al Krow, to see about trialling one as a replacement for your backline. Use it for a couple of rehearsals and a couple of gigs (giving you a little time to dial in the kind of sound you like) and then come back here and share how you feel. You may still prefer the look of a “proper bass amp” sitting behind you but I can bet money that you’ll have changed your tune with regards to their performance. p.s. Oh, and since you have a Zoom MS-60b and B3n you can even emulate your current Markbass sound and get rid of some of the subjectivity of the tone argument! It’ll be a test purely of volume, heft and dispersion. p.p.s. And convenience, of course.

If I was playing in a band like that I'd have light-weight fold-flat Ampeg SVT and Fridge façade to go in front of my FRFR.

I spent 28yrs of a 30yr playing career with no pedals. Recently I have been using them. They are fun to have but not essential. They do sound good though. The best improvement to your sound is practice though.

Voice coil size is just one way of seeing through the exaggerated claims made by manufacturers of audio gear. As the technology currently stands, a 2" coil should handle up to 200W, a 2.5" coil up to 300W and a 3" coil between 350 and 500W. There are other factors involved apart from voice coil diameter, but I wouldn't be confident using anything smaller than 2.5" (unless it's in multiples) for bass backline. Your TKS 112 has a 2.5" coil, by the way, Funkshui. (I'm talking bass drivers here, not compression drivers)

Small one for my usual shop but can downsize to a basket if I'm just nipping in for a few minutes.

And then worked with George Martin who DID study music. The 'music theory stunts your creativity ' argument is a justification. Any knowledge empowers you. A lack of knowledge will not improve creativity, it will be irrelevant to it.

Wow! Not many folk can say that about their bass - what a lovely part of its story.

Oh that looks nice

Finished!! Well not quite, I haven’t installed the electrics or wired it up yet, but everything is together now and it’s looking awesome! I’ll replace the temporary strap buttons with Schaller strap locks, put on the string retainer and the tug bar once it’s strung. It’s the lightest Precision bass (or any bass for that matter) I’ve ever played. At just 6.5 lb it’s 3 whole lb lighter than my Fender Jazz, my shoulder says ‘yay!’ Looking forward to getting some flatwounds on it and seeing how it sounds!! Very pleased 🍊

I am truly gutted that I had nothing to offer this thread. Not had any experience even close to any of these so just a big thank you to all the contributors. This is pure gold .................

Got me thinking with the amount of pedals coming out every month - is the idea of using a bass straight into an amp old fashioned or do you feel you can't get a workable tone without pedals? Do people love the simplicity of plugging straight in and just using the EQ to get a good sound?

Sums things up perfectly!

Absolutely not. Apart form Public Image it's been the best track on this playlist so far.

I’ve got a Shure MV88 which is a stereo condenser that plugs directly into the lightning port of an iPhone or iPad. It draws power from the device itself and has internal DSP with a number of settings you can edit within the Shure Motiv app. You can change the recording pattern from mono to stereo (including adjustment of the stereo field,) add compression, enable wind reduction, apply EQ etc. There’s a setting for recoding in high-SPL environments like live gigs too. And because the DSP processing is done within the mic itself it means that whatever settings you’ve saved in the Shure app will carry over to other recording apps you may want to use, including the default iOS camera app. There are quite a few reviews of it online but here’s one of them:

Hooray! New strings have completely solved the problem. The Warwick Black labels arrived so I fitted those. Not only can I get the E-string action down with the others, I have been able to lower the action on all the strings by quite bit as well. Not sure if it is just a one off rogue E-string, or if this is a systematic problem with the 'Red labels'. Tension in the black labels seems slightly higher than in the Reds. They seem slightly brighter than the Reds, which may well be because they're new, but fundamentally sound much the same. Physically the Black label B and E strings have a significantly finer outer winding than the Reds. The only thing I'm not yet convinced by is that the Blacks have a taper wound B string. It seems to sound a bit 'hollow' compared to the original (non tapered) Reds. BUt whether that is the taper or something else I really don't know. Newtones are on the way and I'll report on those when they're fitted. Thanks for all your suggestions on this.

The temptation to get my Peerless Smoked converted to an 8 or 12 is building.

"Better" tone is always subjective. "Fuller" tone might well not be appropriate in a band mix as it will likely be fighting with other instruments for sonic space. Also how long did you spend experimenting with the various parameter on the Helix before deciding the "real" amp sounded better? IME it takes at least a couple of rehearsals to get the sounds dialled in so that they work in the context of the band. What sounds as though it is going to work when played on its own at home at practice volumes is going to need more editing when you play it at rehearsal/gig volumes with the other instruments in the mix. I'm still tweaking some of my sounds. They get better each time. And very few of my Helix patches have an amp sim in the signal chain and none so far have a cab sim. After all an amplifier is just some tone controls in front of circuitry that can drive a loud speaker to the required volume, and all bass amps and cabs are colouring your sound in one way or another. So on the Helix all you need is some tone shaping that works in a pleasing way to your ears and allows the bass to sound the way you want it and you are set. Whether this is a stand-alone tone module or the tone shaping within an amp sim is irrelevant.

Have you seen this one? Face it to the back of the headstock and there's not much visible from the front. If your bass has a black headstock then it becomes invisible. Not a very big screen but if you have a decent vision won't be a problem. EDIT: more pics: like i described: or, completely invisible:

@Al Krow I currently run a LMII and a single TKS S112 (i do have 2, but have never needed the 2nd). I have the option of running through the PA, but would intend to use it as backline. It seems to me, the people who have been going for the FR/FR route all find their sound to be better? That's why i'm asking though

Was listening to In The Flat Field this morning, splendid.

Depends. Sometimes that's all I need. Sometimes I need lots of FX. Depends on the set list. But generally I'll always take a compressor. They are just too useful in fixing room problems. And obviously a tuner. People who show up to shows without a tuner have a special place in hell reserved for them.

I think the factory was the main source of income for Spondon families for many years. Look at Spondon Historical Society for example. In the gallery there are quite a few images of the factory and workers taken at various times through its history.

I'm still really happy with my FRFR powered speaker (a modest RCF HD 10-A). I sold my Genz Benz head and Barefaced cabs. The only thing I've changed about my setup is an EQ pedal, which I've added post-DI. I use it mainly for its volume control - it makes it slightly easier to adjust my on-stage volume without having to find the powered speaker's gain control (which is located on the back panel).

The Retromatic bass also matched my guitarist's Retromatic guitar ...

Good grief! A happy ending!

Kings X or Cheap Trick often are overlooked

Blandford 2012 Having played in a swing quartet for a couple of years, I ditch electric bass gigs as upright has taken over &, at the ripe old age of 51, discover Skiffle. Swing quartet won't move away from standards/western swing, so I decide I've got enough free time to find a gigging Skiffle set up alongside the jazz lot. See a "Bull-fiddle" player wanted for established Skiffle band advert on BandMix. Establish that they mean double bass (crazy Skiffle-rs' me thinks) and pop along to local consevative club skittle alley for audition. Turns out established band was an old fella (OF) & a younger (40's) drummer. I'd practiced the list of songs I'd been sent (not particularly difficult, but I'm looking forward to a fun & energetic set). I set up my bass/amp/music stand (forgive me, it was a rehearsal situation) and tall stool which I often use in a rehearsal. We start with obligatory "freight train", which "established" guitarist/ singer has difficulty singing & playing the guitar to, is slowing down & speeding up. However, the drummer is excellent & we quickly establish a nice groove...exchanging nods & smiles. However at the end of the song, OF decides I am at fault for not "keeping up" & starts to comment on the strings on my bass being "wrong kind" for this genre (I clearly hadn't researched)....I ignore, smile politely & we move onto next simple enough song. Same thing happens again, OF can't remember how songs go, but establishes with no lack of confidence that I am at fault. Anyway an hour into the "audition" OF decides it's time for a break. I decide it's time to pack up & go. Whilst he's gone to the loo I speak to the drummer, & ask how long he has been playing with OF, to which he replies "play with him in a band? sod that for a game of soldiers, I'd have killed him by now if I was in a band with him. I only came along as a favour as he knows my family" and laughs. I leave before OF returns, to save myself from life imprisonment. Week later, undeterred, I put an advert on same website as double bass available for Skiffle band. Only to be contacted by OF (using my same email address as before) stating that he thought " they" had found a "bull fiddle" player, but the guy was not up to it as he sat down whilst playing & had the wrong strings on his bass. Would I be interested in coming along for a try out, as there were gig's waiting..... Oh dear.

Radial bassbone overdrive. 2 basses and overdrive.

Amazing how close Tokai have got to the original Gibson design, the headstock comes broken off as standard! That's attention to detail right there.

But can you adjust the output levels individually?

Cheap behringer mixer for 20 quid?

I've been using a Pitchblack+ for a few years now: http://www.korg.com/us/products/tuners/pitchblack_plus/index.php Granted, it's about twice the size of a regular pitchblack, but having your A/B and tuner combined in the same pedal is really quite convenient! (Plus it has an option to daisy chain power out to other pedals - I only use an overdrive and a fuzz on stage, so it's more than adequate for these purposes.)

It can make a difference health wise though. Having a bad technique can cause wrist strain etc.

My immediate thinking is that a good PA speaker and a separate small mixer sitting in a convenient to reach location will be much more practical than an all-in-one speaker with all connections and controls hidden at the rear of the speaker cabinet. What’s your budget?

look, no bass amp - i was feeling sorry for the two guitarists having to lug all their amps, cabs and mega pedalboards etc (but only for a bit)....IEMs and Helix for the win !

You cant push the bast*rd in and drown him?