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Joy Division

Here are some real world numbers just to show the bare bones of the actual situation. I don't know why people are so protective of this information, everybody should see how things really are. This is for some original music I wrote and released in 2019 and used CDbaby to publish to the streaming services which cost around $90 to do, if I recall correctly. This is all streaming activity since it was released right up to today. I hope to recoup by 2030. Ok, 2040 😂 Granted, the style of music we play - slow stoner/doom type stuff where our shortest song is 7 minutes long - is exactly the opposite of how to play the streaming game. Ideally, songs should be as little over 30 seconds as possible to register a play, hence why so many albums now feature short songs, short skits and other filler. We're in it for the doom, not the money, though. I have had to go to 4 decimal places to make sure everything gets covered. Pay is counted in US$. To clarify, we're getting 1.05 cents per stream on SoundExchange, for example, and 1/3 of 1 cent on Spotify. Why would you bother, I hear you ask? Well, something is better than nothing, I suppose, but only just. People are going to post your music to youtube and the likes, "share" it on your behalf, whether you like it or not, so you might as well get paid (yes, I know) for it rather than them. That was my logic, anyway, based on it being uploaded to Youtube by several different people unassociated with us. I felt forced into it rather than waste my time finding it and having it pulled down (we did that too, a few times). By contrast, we have around 100 digital sales on Bandcamp, priced at €3.00 and get roughly €2.33 for each sale there. If I ever come across as a Bandcamp fanboy, it's because they are, without question, the only decent digital music provider who aren't ripping artists off. Bandcamp also give you free streaming and downloads for every purchase of music you make. If anyone wants to check out the music behind the numbers, http://witheredfist.bandcamp.com is my shameless plug 😉 If you actually want to support an artist, Bandcamp or direct from the artist is the only way to do it, in my opinion. I'd be interested to hear what people think of those numbers, is anyone surprised by them?

STOMP by the Brothers Johnson - with walk-through of the Bass Solo Located on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhuSY5uXA2k Please post if you were able to pick up the solo.

I remember reading in Glen Matlocks book that he and a mate went to see Teenage Rebellion thinking what a great name and how this must be a band worth seeing. The band were made up of 40+ year olds. When they asked about the name the reply was that they were rebelling against teenagers.

I'm sad/bored enough to have done a little research. It appears that any wood used to build a guitar is labelled a tonewood, regardless of any actual tonal properties it may, or may not, have. So as long as it is structurally capable of being used to make a guitar, it's a tonewood. It's as stupid as that. So when adverts/luthiers blither on about magical tonewoods then as long as they've built an instrument with it it's a tonewood, and by default means that every guitar or bass ever built from wood is built using a tonewood. So let's just call it wood. I also found out the best way to get spalting started in a wood is to pee on it and store in damp, humid conditions to let the bacterial growth develop. Mmmm 'Tonepiss'. 🙂

A fan and friend of mine linked the copies of these transcriptions that are on my Facebook page Neil Murray Bass Guitarist to a FB page to do with Berklee music college in the US and their associated bassists. A very respected bass player and teacher, Steve Bailey, who I've met at Warwick Bass Weekends in Germany, saw the transcriptions and quite rightly made the criticism that sometimes the notation is not exactly 'correct' - I assume he means that you’re supposed to see where each crotchet/quarter note starts in each bar, by using e.g. two tied quavers/eighth notes instead of a crotchet, indicating that one of the four beats in the bar lands in the middle of that particular note. In my defence, I would make the following points: Although in certain situations (Gilgamesh 1973, National Health 1976-7, We Will Rock You 2002 onwards) it's been necessary to be able to read music (but not sight-read), for the entirety of the rest of my career playing by ear and not requiring the 'dots' in order to do the job has been the most important skill. I assume, perhaps wrongly, that the bassists who are interested in my playing are more likely to look at the tab, with help from the notation, particularly for the rhythms. Tab is probably banned at Berklee, and mostly I wouldn’t use it much myself, but I didn’t transcribe these bass lines for Berklee students, and if I'd known they would be scrutinised by one of the instructors, I would have made sure they were notationally perfect. For me to do these transcriptions, my abilities are not good enough to use a pure notation app such as Sibelius. I need to be able to hear the notes sounding similar to a bass guitar, and to at least enter the notes in tab, based on the fret positions I used when the songs were recorded. The program that is best for this is Guitar Pro, though certain bends and effects are difficult to notate, even in an app designed for guitarists. Some parts took a huge amount of time, partly just hearing and working out what I played, particularly on the live versions, given that I often haven’t listened to some of these tracks for 35+ years. So occasionally if I got it sounding correct rhythmically, I left the notation as Guitar Pro had entered it, even if I knew it wasn’t 100% 'correct' according to the rules. Given that I am not earning anything from the transcriptions, I feel they're good enough for people’s purposes. The criticism has left me less enthusiastic about continuing with more transcriptions, though anyway at the moment I am extremely busy with non-musical family situations, soI don’t have time. My main plan was that the transcriptions were just an add-on to videos of me replaying these songs, but that’s a more difficult task, to do well, especially as I'm not an extrovert who loves seeing their face on social media etc. Thanks for everyone’s very kind words!

Mines only wrapped on one side with a seam of tape around the edge;

So after playing Fender basses for 40-odd years I decided to give my back a rest and look for something lighter. After months of waiting, a Yamaha RBX-A2 came up on eBay which I bought and loved, then a second really tatty one came up which I got for £135. I don't have much guitar tweaking experience beyond the odd pickup swap, but on the basis that I had little to lose I decided to have a tinker. This poor bass was quite badly abused although the neck only had 2 dents which I drop filled with Superglue. I filled a much bigger ding on the body edge with epoxy putty. Then I decided to try vinyl wrapping it with a carbon fibre look. I’d never done that before and I’m pleased how it came out, although how long it will last is anyone’s guess. Has anyone else vinyl wrapped a bass? The Yamaha is flat topped which makes it easier, I can’t imagine how you’d wrap a curvy Fender. I couldn’t avoid the odd tiny crease at the edges around the horns, so I covered the edges with car pinstriping tape, which seems to work well and should help to stop the edges lifting. Photos attached. For a £135 bass I don’t think it looks bad, and it plays and sounds great. If anyone’s interested I’ll report back in a few weeks, after a few pub gigs, as to how its bearing up.

Most Stranglers bass lines.

I was watching a video of Scott Devine interviewing the great, Bobby Vega. Talk turned to his famous ‘shark’, 61 J bass. Scott asked what wood it was made of, Bobby replied, “Brown.” Utter genius.

For sure. I installed a tonebrass nut on a bass recently, along with tonestrap tonelocks.

Eagles of Death Metal

I'm old school and still buy CD's. Only downloads i get are when i buy the CD on Amazon and i get the free album download too. I don't use Spotify or any other streaming. I'm a great believer in the artists should get some of the profits from their own albums. Some of the stories i hear are quite surprising and such a shame really. Dave

It's a bit coincidental that the woods we're told give the best tone are the most expensive and rarest raw materials. Imagine how much less money they would make if MDF or plywood were the best woods for tone.

Almost anything by the Minutemen. Do Public Image Limited count as punk? If so, anything with Jah Wobble on.

I find the first fret quite easy to reach 😁

Aye I have had a blonde P bass and its had plenty grain showing through the paint, thats deffo an Oly White finish.

That wasn't important on the Moon, anyway. ..

Don't suppose you have any photos of it "the right way up"?? Here we go...

Here's my recent purchase, a Musicman Sterling with a lovely roasted maple neck 😊

Alabama Thunderpussy. No cats, no meteorology, not even from Alabama.

The Dukes Of Stratosphear - What In The World??...” Side note: Over a decade ago I had a short lived p/t job selling instruments (the last time I did anything that resembled a real job really) and I met Colin Moulding / The Red Curtain. He was looking for “one of those old sixties Vox basses like Bill Wyman with all the buttons on it and the skinny necks”. He was quite softly spoken and seemed actually a little shy, initially it wasn’t easy getting a conversation out of him, but we had a chat for a couple of minutes and he was super nice. He was polite and quietly friendly and I was polite, and quietly awe-struck. I’d met plenty famous people before and rarely (if ever) been star struck, often it’s no big deal, they’re just other people. But this was Colin Moulding! Of XTC! So I took his phone number and told him I would call him if a 1960s Vox bass came in. Before he left, I told him his playing was always amazing but especially on “What In The World??..” and he looked a bit bemused* but said, “Oh yeah, er, thanks” and that was it. A few weeks later I’d found a 1960s Vox bass, possibly the Wyman model, but definitely with THE skinniest neck, so I phoned Mr. Moulding and told him. He sounded quite interested when I was telling him the details etc, so I was happy to be able to help out. The Vox bass didn’t hang around long at all though. Pretty quickly I sold it either to Sébastien Tellier or his touring bassist, can’t remember which now, but they were super nice guys. Don’t know if Mr. Moulding ever found the Vox bass he was looking for, but anyway *A few years later I was looking at the reissue of “25 O’Clock” and the notes for “What In The World??..” said the bass was by... eh.?? Sir John Johns..?? Andy flipping Partridge!! One of my favourite recorded bass parts ever! Darn. It was a bit like finding out your dad is actually your uncle, or something. No wonder CM looked bemused when I told him it was my favourite of all his playing 😂 In my defence, my default setting is “bit of a div” but I did feel embarrassed about it later. Andy flipping Partridge though!!! And I still want an Epiphone Newport with batwing headstock. 😎

Thank you, thanks to doug, he is a bit of a star, he is just doing me a flame maple topped ash body for my fotoflame jazz bass, and refinishing the worn out body on my 82 wal, also doing a lacquer crack on my early goodfellow. and his prices are very good too, any repair work needed he is very VERY reasonable, yea give him a bell the bass is now done, as said i went for an antique finish, doug is very perticular about his finishes for example on this he did not just spray the edges black but hand done the finishe in an "antiquey" as he calls it brown and also adds something to the poly to blend in, a bit like a violin finish and its like a mirror, here ya go, thanks doug.

Excellent suggestion.

Me too

And (bar some tweaking) done. Not perfect by any means (well the neck carve is ) but pretty happy with this.

+1 for the Minutemen, and “Public Image” has to count as one of The great punk basslines

What Dead Kennedys bassline isn't good?

‘Ugliest woman I have ever seen!’

@neilmurraybass ' assume, perhaps wrongly, that the bassists who are interested in my playing are more likely to look at the tab, with help from the notation, particularly for the rhythms' Bassists who are interested in your playing 'prolly come in various guise and at various levels... The majority i expect are fans of your work, and someone like me, starting out and familiar with the songs after listening to em all these years are simply thankful for you 'time and tab' so we can look to enjoy the songs by starting to get a bit of it right then participating at a greater level... Thanks for the caterpillars!

Wow. Womanowar. 🤟😁

Take up Drums? 😉

We are looping the loop. 🤣

The great unwashed believe that being a Musician is the lazy person's path, but in reality you have to really bust your balls to keep your head above water.

I think there's no doubt that a very well constructed instrument will show off the tone in pups and pre's better than a slab of plywood and some razor wire... It's also true to say that if I pick up the bass of doom or Geddy's Jazz, I won't sound anything like Pastorius or Geddy Lee, tone resides in the combination of the player and the bass, and the bass is the sum of it's parts, some are better than that sum, and some are worse.

I think I'll leave that for the likes of Andy to build! The top has got a nice bit of a grain pattern to it which I think will really look good when grain filled.... 👍🏻

Four SimS pickups? The glued up blank looks splendid.

I wonder if the wood you use gives you colouration

Yeah, that's an awesome one. So far so good so what was my favourite when I was young, but now if I'm honest with myself Rust in Peace is. I want to hear Marty Friedman playing Into the Lungs of Hell off so far... but I can't find any recording where he's done it.

Hence my original question!

My band are in the same boat. We released an album last month and it has been received fairly well in the stoner/doom circles which is great. This means that numerous different sites/blogs and fans have already posted the whole album to Youtube, which means that we get absolutely zilch for those plays. At least a couple of the larger blogs had the decency to ask if they could post the album and made sure to include a direct link to our bandcamp when posting the video. The process of sharing of the album has helped the band in terms of 'exposure' and our bandcamp physical and digital sales are more than they would have otherwise been if the sharing had not occurred in the first place. Essentially, the band have almost written off streaming revenue since we don't operate in a genre where that will ever be a significant revenue driver unless Lady Gaga changes style entirely and does an EP with Sleep. We are still relying on people who find the Youtube links to check out the bandcamp, maybe buy the physical album to listen to it in better quality, possibly buy a t shirt and maybe catch us at a gig sometime when it becomes possible. The revenue the band generates helps keep the band going but there is little to no individual income for any of the band members. Even if the band 'made it' within this genre it would not be particularly financially lucrative.

I'm the same.

More florid obfuscation from the Alembic 'Premium Woods' page: 'Indian Rosewood has a rich look to match its rich tone. As with other Rosewoods, the complex tone is both bright and dark.' So it's, erm, bright and dark? I think the only certain thing we can say is it's Premium, which means it's gonna cost you to find out...ditto Koa: 'Koa has a mellow tone, with big, plump low end response. Better for fingerstyle playing as a slapper will have to fight its mellow nature (but we certainly have heard players who can overcome the default tone of Koa).' Ahhhh, right...better for fingerstyle...unless you slap it, of course...then it's OK, too... These Premium Woods are a right old tonal conundrum...they do look nice, tho...

In years gone by, there were no recordings at all. Musicians could only earn by playing, 'live', or getting their sheet music sold. All this 'music business' is a very recent thing; the first musician 'millionaires just got lucky. Earning a living from one's music has always been a risky vocation; modern technology has distorted the vision of this reality. Ignore the recording side of things and play to real people; that's how it really works. If one is good enough to attract enough of an audience, it'll pay. If not, keep the day job. It may be sad, and harsh, but that's the nub of it. Or set up a personal distribution system, world-wide, and see how much profit there is to be made from selling music.

I agree. I've owned an AER amp one and an AER amp two. Both are amazing and although expensive, once the money is spent, you have a fantastic amp for many, many years. I haven't owned an AER amp three but I've heard one at an outdoor gig and it was loud and deep from 400 metres away. They are all stunningly brilliant amps. Frank.

To compare size, my 34” fretless and the 27” side by side.

The best musician in Metallica has always been the bass player. Interesting you mention Bello as always feel he’s the overlooked one.

My bass is off having the front wrapped at the moment. I was too scared to do it myself. It’s having the Joker (The Killing Joke) image below put on the front and orientated so it’s the right way up when being played. Its going on the the front of my black SR800 and can always be removed if I get bored or want to sell. Hopefully it will protect the paint.