Ghost_Bass

[quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1478880418' post='3172388'] Don't me wrong, I love my P basses as well, and I agree with bandmates when they say they prefer the sound of P in the mix. No one is telling me what bass to play, but they always prefer the sound of the P over the J, so that's what gets used. I started out on a Jazz yesterday, then switched to a Precision after half a dozen for so songs, and the guitarist and drummer immediately said how much better it sounded. To be honest, I am increasingly finding the Jazz basses to sound a bit thin and lacking that authority thump of a decent Precision, but I suspect I'd forget that if I sold the Js and a year or two down the lone would splash out on another! [/quote] From what you're saying the P is the way to go in your band. If everybody (including you) prefers the tone and the way it sits in the mix then it's a no brainer. Keep at least one J with you, in a few years you may find yourself in another project where it would get all the thumbs up regarding tone and band mix.

Actually i hear more talk about Fender Jazz over here from other musos (normally keyboard players). Also i'm allways running in to that guy on a gig that knows what a bass guitar is and has a passion for it (even though he may or not play it). As that guy sees that i'm carrying a Yamaha he starts telling me that i should buy a Fender, that's a real bass, the best bass, etc. etc. etc. In the old days i would be bothered to take some time to explain why my Yammy is way better than the Fender but now i just smile and let them all find out what that bass sounds like when the gig starts. Fender are still the standart and most people will take it as the pinnacle of bass/guitar without really knowing what it is. Other have their ear formatted to a sound at such level that everything that sounds different isn't acceptable. Finn, if you like the sound of the J in the band's mix i say you should stick with your guns and let them find out how good it sounds and get used to it. If you also think that the P sits better then keep the J locked until you find yourself in another band with another style.

[quote name='artisan' timestamp='1478814439' post='3171936'] Thanks guys I'll send them an email in the morning. Just been playing the bass for a couple of hours & I just can't get over what a nice bass it is. I've had some pretty expensive basses ( roscoe century) & this isn't a million miles away. Sounds damn fine too. Maybe I need a BB425X too [/quote] And so the incurable "Y-virus" starts to spread through the victim's blood stream...

It's a problem with a lot of active onboard EQ brands for bass. I've found that Glokenklang preamps have the most natural sound, ie, the sound you get when having the EQ knobs in the center detent is pretty much the same sound when you switch to passive. No volume drops whatsoever.

A friend of mine (also a basschatter) bought his TRB5PII wich he used live and in the studio. He signed it and even sent an authentication letter/pic. Here's me with his bass on the right (and mine on the left):

Oh! So nice! Love the features, everything i need (and yes, i prefer a HPF to a compressor, amp built-in compressors rarely are of any use). Time to start saving money!

There's no excuse for the lack of communication from their side. If they give you a deadline they have to keep it, if there are delays they should phone/e-mail you and apologise with a description of the delay and new deadline. Their attitude is very poor. I would be very angry if i had to go through what you're enduring. By this time i would be sending weekly e-mails and phone calls until i got a sensible reply with an explication of the delay, build status and realistic delivery date. Good luck, hope this doesn't afect you relationship with your future bass, he's not to blame and will make all those funky sounds that'll make you forget about the long wait.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1477563319' post='3162963'] Sorry. If the drummer hasn't sorted himself by the first beat of the next bar, then I'm going with him. The rest of the band should be communicating by this point and everyone will shift. The same happens if it's a bodged fill, the musicians should spot this and make adjustment there and then before the first beat of the next bar. That's always been what happens in every band I've played in. No one carries on regardless. Everyone listens and watches. [/quote] Yep! The most sensible attitude. There's no right answer, sometimes the drummer can pick it up and other times it just isn't possible. Things like hitting a note after a pause, if the drummer takes a bit more time the rest of the band has to wait so they all hit the note at the same time. If a stick is dropped mid verse/chorus then the drummer grabs another and picks up the song. Everybody need to listen to and look at the band mates and this situations will be solved quickly and naturaly. If the drummer is so bad that he can't pick up the tempo/rythm after a miss then he's not prepared to gig live and needs to get back to the practice room (this is valid to every musician).

Well, in the old days where there was only one or two stores available near one's home it would be natural for someone looking to buy gear to have to settle for the available stock and price tags. In this case you're reporting my opinion is if anybody is capable to use a computer and payment technology to buy a bass from e-bay then they surely have the ability to use google. If they get ripped off it's their fault (darwin selection). This doesn't take from the attitude of that seller, he's clearly not an honest person.

So... the OP changed from a 500W AG500 to a 1500W SM1500 and felt more "heft"? And people are saying is due to the toroidal transformer? And the extra headroom from having 3 times the power output doesn't play a part here? In that case my class-D Shuttle 9.2 is more "heftier" then the toroidal equipped 15W TE Boxer combo i have or the 280W GK RB400iv i had... We shouldn't mix things, we all know that a 500W toroidal amp, compared to a 500W SMPS, has more sub-lows (great for those who like it, i'm very happy without a muddy stage sound) and the greater the power output of an amp more headroom is available. So what's the news about the SM1500 sounding better? Even the SM900 would beat the c**p out of the Aggie. The SM400 would be a better comparison, both in the same muscle rank, the tone would be decisive factor there.

"A friend helps you get up if you fall, a good friend first makes fun of you and laughs before getting you up!" That's pretty much what i do, there's no need to cover up for mistakes, it's live music and it happens all the time, when someone gets something wrong i laugh with him and carry on. Sometimes it's needed to re-adjust the timing and sometimes it's just a case of keeping the pace until they caught up with the tempo, no right answer to the OP's question. This is valid for every band member (guitarists hitting wrong notes, singer forgetting lirycs, and yes even the bassplayer hitting a full-step down note with the biggest conviction right in the begining of Purple Rain's chorus, ouch!). It happens, embrace it, let the audience know it happened, they're not stupid and there will be some musos around that know it. Smile and carry on. One of my pet hates are musicians (in fact, singers...) that can't handle a mistake and burst on stage with a flaming look and angry comments about it. I had one of these speciments once, after one gig the band was fed up with it and put him against a wall and let him know that if he wouldn't stop it he would be left alone in that band. Worked like a charm.

Nice! A Yammy is allways an excelent bass to have. Enjoy

For me it's the bass without a doubt. That's where my tone is and i've found it in the TRB, with flat EQ (in the bass's preamp) it has the tone i have in my head. Strings are a big part of the sound also! The amp/cab are only there to make it sound louder without changing the tone, could be any brand that sound as clear a possible.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1477061360' post='3159625'] No. It's the same discussion. It's a factor of whether your band can warrant using a full PA. If I had a van and roadies and a sound engineer and millions of pounds to spend, I just turned up to the gig, plugged in and played, then it'd be full PA always. I don't. So it's not. So saying its a better way of doing things and it's the way we should all do it is academic. [/quote] Drumer has a van (we both own personal station wagon vans also if needed for carting material if the Vito isn't available), we don't have roadies, we cart all the gear but it's light (class-D power modules in active PA sub+tops). We own a very good quality PA that costed a bit above £1K used and payed it with gigs in the first couple of months. We take much pride in presenting the best sound possible to the audience because we're getting payed to do that gig (we account for the van's gas expenses in our price) and try to be as professional as possible. As a result we get a good deal of bookings. It doesn't kill me to do a couple more trips to the van to carry the PA and i sleep better after getting home without having my ears ringing. I'm prepared to do all the work necessary to provide the best show possible, i wouldn't skimp on sound quality just to avoid carrying a bit of weight.

I just read the preious posts and couldn't agree more with EBS&Pete's poin of view and loved Phill's post, spot on! I'll try to giv a brief description of my band's setup and setting up. First i have to say that my band play's a wide array of songs but the core sound is Soul/Funk/Hip-Hop so we're not using high volume and certainly not pinning anybody against the back wall. Our PA is composed of a pair of RCF ART312A's on top of a pair of DB SUB15's (soon to be replaced by the RCF 15's). Drummers gear is a Oderey drum kit, jazz type size (18" kick) with 1 Tom and 1 floor tom. It's small and practical for the size of stages we encouter, we mic the Kick, both toms and the Hi-Hat. My gear is TRB5PII into Shuttle 9.2 into BF Super12T, both guitars use Teles and 12" combo (Fender and Line6). Singer/rythm uses the Fender's DI and Lead uses a SM57 to mic it. Mixer is a 24ch Phonic (overkill but usefull for another 7 piece project we have in this band). After setting up we start with the kick-drum, turn the volume just a tad above the accoustic and EQ in some bass to be felt in the romm and some kick. Then proceed with the toms doing the same, just a tad of volume above the accoustic sound so that the EQ is percieved on the room, then the H-H wich is for me the most important part of the drums and need to be there and present. Pass on to bass, i start on stage and adjust my rig's volume to the drum kit and remove sub-bass from the amp so it won't mess with the drum mics, then open the PA channel, step outside and do the same with the FHO but retaining the sub-lows for some chest punch. Guitars follow and only have a smidge of volume on the PA just to help them project to the back (if there are a lot of people standing in front of the stage the guitars, and other instruments, wont reach the back of the room. Last we do the vocals and they have to sit above all that with definition and enough volume. In the end we get a great FOH mix at a volume suited to the room that allows people to hear the band with the best sound fidelity possible but also be able to call for a beer from the waiter and our onstage sound is low volume and everybody can hear everybody perfectly. Only monitor we use is for the singer's voice. We don't have a tech, the mix is made by me or/and the drummer and we've been doin this for quite some time so we have a nice perception of how to set it up to get a good sound in the evening. The drummer owns a mercedes Vito were we carry the band's gear so it's not a problem to cart the PA around. In fact, if i had an Ampeg Fridge i wouldn't be able to lug it arround as opposed to my PA and rig where i can lift any piece of kit (including the subs) alone. Another POV against backline + vox PA is that if the backline is loud enough to provide room for the room it will all bleed in to the singer's mic and mess with his PA sound, it will also be a big cause of feedbacks. Sorry for the long post, cheers.

There's alot of ways to see this and to solve the problem depending on one's setup and tone shaping. No solution is better, you just have to find the one that suits you. If the tone is obtained by right hand playing and bass EQ and the bass rig is composed of a "transparent" amp&cab then you can use a DI box before the amp or use the amp's DI in pre. If there's a preamp pedal between bass and amp and the rig is the aforementioned "transparent" type then you can use the DI out of the preamp pedal, a DI box or the amp's DI in pre. If you use the amp's preamp to tailor the sound but have a "flat'ish" cab you can use the amp's DI in post. If your cab has colour and that is a big part of your tone you have two ways: either your tone is reproduceable by the FOH engineer on the mixer and in this case you either use a DI box or the amp's DI in pre/post depending on the engineer's POV or you have to mic the cab to get all the tone you want. Personally i wouldn't use a mic, it will pic up the drums. I use my amp's DI out, my rig is as faithfull to my bass/hands tone as possible and the rig is there only to make it sound louder without changin it. But there's allways the room to factor in so i have messed with amp's EQ to cut/boost the bass depending on the room and to remove a resonant freq. Normally i allways have the DI in post because in pubs we don't have sound engineer and that notch from the amp would also be needed in the PA but for larger events, with a hired PA and sound crew i put it in pre and let the techs do their work the way the want to.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1476893902' post='3158230'] We use only tops in pub-size venues. The bass through our Hiwatt and HH cab give as good as any sub, so we wouldn't benefit. Vox only, and a smidgen of bass drum in the tops (no 'bottom-end punch, just a presence, that's all...). No point in a pair of subs either; the bass will be spread just fine with just one in most venues. That's what the bass cab is [i]for[/i], in fact..! [/quote] [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1476903744' post='3158378'] /\ Exactly. Mic up everything in a pub room? Total overkill. [/quote] Sendind everything to the PA provides a better overall sound mix. If the bass rig has to provide enough "heft" for the entire room then certainly it will be too loud on stage and will bother every bandmate (the same applies to the rest of the instruments). I can gig with my Promethean combo if needed, it just needs to be loud enough to cut through the drum set on stage and i allways EQ out the sub-lows from my rig so that it doesn't muddy the stage sound and everybody can hear it as articulate as possible. Let the subs do all the heavy lifting with the sub-80Hz region. "Playing 4 hours in front of a rig turned up to fill the entire room? Madness, i say!" (Sorry Mikel, had to do it )

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1476887326' post='3158137'] Never mic anything up for a pub or club gig. We trust each other as musicians to get our prefered sound on stage. The vocalist advises on instrument balance from out front, but we have done it so often its usually spot on anyway. Guitarist sets the vocal mics from out front. Job done. Getting a good bass sound from a small PA rig, in a pub, is difficult as most dont move enough air and volume will be low. When we are lucky enough to do a big venue the sound system is in place with a proper sound guy who can usually get the sound I want out front and in the monitors. Still try to use my backline if possible. [/quote] From what i'm reading here most of the bands that use a PA for vox in fact only have a pair of tops. With a couple of subs below (and if you've got a quality PA) your bass sound will be better overall and dispersed through every corner of the venue. We have a low volume on stage sound, i can hear everybody, both guitar combos and vocal monitor and they can hear me. If i had to push my amp to fill the room (and if the guitars did the same) i would start to lose parts of the drum kit and wouldn't be able to hear the vocals (neither would the singer).

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1476875623' post='3157946'] Exactly this for the pub/club bands I play with. We've tried putting the whole band through our own PA (we have more than enough good-quality kit to do that if we wish) but frankly it's more trouble than it's worth. By the time you take into account everyone's varying need for monitoring and foldback, having each of us bring his own backline is easily the simplest option ... in which case where's the benefit in all going through the PA? We're literally moments away from having JTUK turn up and explain where we're going wrong. [/quote] [quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1476875623' post='3157945'] BTW, we plug everything to PA, including drum kit (except for snare in pubs) bass and guitars. This way we can lower the amps to match the accoustic drum on stage and leave more room for the singer to hear himself properly. The PA will balance and complement the stage sound to match the room and pump out all the dB's needed to flap trousers and lift women skirts... [/quote]

BTW, we plug everything to PA, including drum kit (except for snare in pubs) bass and guitars. This way we can lower the amps to match the accoustic drum on stage and leave more room for the singer to hear himself properly. The PA will balance and complement the stage sound to match the room and pump out all the dB's needed to flap trousers and lift women skirts...

I wouldn't play without PA, even though i have enough volume on my rig to fill any pub i play in. I want to keep my hearing for a bit more time. Me and the drummer own a PA, it'a a RCF with 2 subs and 2 tops, active. It's relatively light and easy to carry so it isn't a problem to take it to gigs. I prefer to have lower volume onstage so that everyone hears everybody clearly and we don't get tired. The PA is there to do all the hard work and make sure that the best sound possible is presented to the audience. More that the comfort for the band i see it as a professional attitude. If we're playing live and getting paid to do it (even if it was for free, doesn't mather) we have the obligation to deliver the best musical and sound quality possible. A secon hand PA is paid after the first few gigs so it isn't a big expense but it is a big investment in the band's career and future.

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1476701518' post='3156348'] Could you use your credibility as a band supporting national acts as a way of upping your bar fee? [/quote] Bars will never pay the same fee (or even get close) as a big event. They can't make enough profit to do that. But a bar can book you through the entire year as an event normally takes place once a year.

If you can find a band with a schedule that alows you to make a living with those big paying gigs go for it in a blink of an eye. My band plays pubs mainly but also some outdoor gigs in the summer. Pubs pay about 75-100€ per musician and we have to cart instruments, backline and PA. In outdoor gigs we get paid twice or three times that amount and we have a stage, backsatge, PA, monitors and techs at our disposal, we also get to play to a larger crowd. Its undeniable that the big gigs are way more atractive but we don't get enough of them during the year to stop playing in bars.

Normally it makes me feel a bit sored in my shoulder but happy with the tone. If i didn't like it i would have traded it for another and another until i find the right one a long time ago.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1476358763' post='3153588'] Glad that you have found gear that you like. That's half the battle. If you know all the theory, you'll also know why your friend's measurements are also inconclusive. [/quote] Yep, i know but inside the same room with the same bass line being played through the backline and PA with the PA volume already fit to drums (everything also on PA) and the backline volume fit to the drum onstage it's a bit of a fair comparison, even though i could never replicate optimal conditions or have a sine wave at hand to use. Like i said, the colour of many bass cabs are fit for the majority os bassplayers, it's not a flaw. For us weirdos that like unusual bass sound we have to work harder to find our gear, but thankfully there's plenty out there, not just BF In case you have facebook here's a video of that gig: https://www.facebook.com/victormmsousa/videos/10153856560331806/ we were a bit loud that night.