markstuk

[quote name='la bam' timestamp='1485201998' post='3222090'] I know this is a thread about PAT but people need to be educated on these 2 vital aspects that go hand in hand. A genuine piece of advise - if you have PLI go and check your PLI policy. I'd be very surprised if your policy is valid if you can't provide evidence of PAT testing should you need to claim. Thats the part you're missing. Even though PAT isnt a LEGAL requirement, it may be a requirement of your PLI policy. If in doubt ring them and ask for a concrete answer. So in theory, should the worst happen, you have no PAT and no Insurance - thats not a good position to be in. [/quote] I have read my policy, and it does not require my equipment to be PA tested, although there are some weasel words that this might be taken into consideration. Given that I am a "competent" person in the parlance, I have no problem in maintaining that my equipment is PA tested - indeed I put a meter across my equipment rather more often than once a year, and I check my extension leads much more frequently than that.. Again, I'm still interested in how I might go to prison for not having my equipment have a certificate knocked up by some sparky on powerpoint by his missus..

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1485197033' post='3222030'] I have done the full custom thing with one of the UK's most respected builders. Would I do it again? No. The bass was all I asked for spec wise but it just did not sound fabulous. I changed electrics twice but to no avail. As above, I sold it for a loss. You just cannot tell how wood is going to work together. It might work, but it might not. If you still want to (and I am not saying do not) then I suggest you pick up a model from your favoured builder 2nd hand (they all come through here), live with it for a bit and then move on from there, selling it for the same as you bought it. [/quote] This makes sense to me..

[quote name='la bam' timestamp='1485199441' post='3222053'] Theres lots of examples. Just think of house much it would cost to repair a hotel if your kit set it on fire. Repair bills, labour, lost income. Can you afford these repairs out of your own pocket? Do you think a venue is going to pay for you if the investigation proves your kit was to blame? No. They're going to come after you. Granted there now should be trip switches etc at venues, to prevent major damage, but I've seen some shoddy venues. For the sake of £100 a year youre crazy not to be covered. [/quote] Again, these are "what if's" rather than what I asked which was for concrete examples.. And the main point was you saying someone could go to Jail as a consequence of their kit not being PA Tested and an accident resulting from this.... Can you elaborate please? FYI this is a conversation about PA testing, not PLI (which I do have, because it makes sense) although the venues policy will always backstop mine in the event of an overclaim. In my view it's much more likely that a piece of lighting or PA will fall onto a punter, rather than my gear spontaneously combust uncontrollably and burn the venue to the ground..

[quote name='la bam' timestamp='1485196352' post='3222017'] Yes, PAT is not a legal requirement, BUT one big thing missing here is that if you have PLI and no PAT (or dodgy PAT) this can invalidate your PLI insurance, leaving you vunerable to potentially millions in damages, or even jail, should the worst happen. [/quote] Jail? really? has anyone ever gone to jail for not having their equipment PA tested? Has anyone in a band ever been sued for millions for an accident arising from not having their equipment PA tested with no other major factor involved? Happy to be corrected, but I'm pretty sure this has never happened... This is why this is never a reasonable debate, hyperbole seems to dominate these conversations..

+1 for swan..Made a lovely vented case for my glockenklang amp

I use low riders on my jazzalike five.. better feel and more tension than hi beams..

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1485166417' post='3221611'] That's why in your building you should have a risk assessment covering different types of kit. So your PC leads you might check every two years as they don't move and are clipped behind desks away from people's feet. Your desk fans you'd check 6 monthly, before and after the summer. Etc etc. I think it's your understanding and implementation of the PAT test that is at fault not the PAT test itself. If you have a small building then you might as well just blanket test everything the same week so that it's easier to manage. [/quote] No. my issue is not with the concept of PA testing. My issue is with the way it's "marketed"... And sadly, I know all about doing risk assessments, and trying to stress to people not to do them in a formulaic way.. Thorough and formulaic are not the same thing.. However to repeat myself - the OP appears perfectly happy with the electrical safety of his equipment, and having a sticker put on his extension leads (by a "real" tester") won't make them safe for the next gig. His requirement to have his gear PA tested comes from the venue.. I always use RCDs myself anyway, not that they're foolproof, but they're better than nothing and can be tested easily.. . I think we're going to have to agree to disagree about the way the industry appears to present PA testing to clients...

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1485165060' post='3221581'] You're employing the wrong contractors then. And nowhere in your posts have you mentioned this. [/quote] Strangely enough, they're never the ones that get the job. But clearly it's a tactic that works elsewhere... I have to get three quotes for any work done, so I get to see a lot of contractors.. We have a PA tester (Fluke) at work, and routinely test any devices that come in from the field with issues.. I'm not against the idea of testing, I'm against the idea of going through the motions for the sake of a tick box and/or expecting that having being tested a device remains inherently safe until the next arbitrarily scheduled test date.. One of my big hobbies is aviation, and when we're teaching people how to do inspections the thing I most stress is "why are we doing this check?, what are the modes of failure? " rather than yeah yeah... Must and should are two entirely different concepts..

You're stuck with Macs if you;re using Mainstage.. Maybe a rack mounted Mac mini instead?

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1485162788' post='3221548'] Why do you feel the need to explain it to electrical contractors? They will be asked to carry out the tests because the company requires it possibly as part of their insurance requirements which will be law. [/quote] Because they're selling it as an addon service (revenue generation) - which is fine.. However I take exception to being lied to. Are you seriously trying to suggest that whenever electrical work is done, there is a requirement to PA test everything in a building?

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1485127145' post='3221466'] I don't think anyone is disputing this. Try working in a building with 10,000 people and then tell me that the only faults you get are from dodgily wired plugs. People try to smuggle in all sorts of gear from home, it's frightening the state some of it is in. [/quote] I don't I am saying that the only faults come from badly wired plugs (although interesting to note that it was legislation AFAIK that required plugs to be fitted to appliances) If PA testing was a regulated activity with a consistent approach to testing I would be less anti the paperwork shuffle, but the guys advertising PA testing for 80p a device are not doing it properly (if at all) At the moment it's a mess.. And in the case of the OP I would imagine he's perfectly happy with the electrical safety of his equipment..

I'm usually one of the "woolly" ashdown "meh" group having had an EB180, Mag300 and rpm/APM pre power setup which either sounded crap, were unreliable or both. However the last ashdown I did use (one of the 550 klystrons I think) was perfectly adequate although I suspect it helped that it was going through a BFM cab..

Result 😉

And i'm just saying having your stuff PA tested yearly does not make it safe.. HSE state that they assume new stuff does not need testing, even though we all know this is nonsense. Safety comes from being proactive and assessing risks. The one thing that has contributed most to electrical safety is not PA testing, it's moulded sealed plugs In the context of the OP I imagine he's perfectly happy with the electrical safety of his equipment and this is simply an admin hurdle to get over..

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1485122010' post='3221410'] I've never understood the "buy some stickers" approach, I could type and print a car insurance certificate, wouldn't hold any value if anything went wrong would it? You can go around the houses with the legalities all you like just like the public liability argument but if the venue wants it you need it or let another band do it, lying that they are done is one thing but making your own stickers up would be getting you is serious trouble if something did happen unless you can "prove that you are competent" and you have the appropriate paperwork to go with the stickers. [/quote] Is this instance there is no legal definition of PA testing and the stickers have no meaning in any legal sense.. it's nothing like a certificate of motor insurance.. No one is suggesting that electrcal equipment should not be safe, just deriding the whole concept of PA testing in this country. Read the HSE notes linked above. My somewhat cynical take on the PA testing "industry" comes from explaining to electrical contractors that it's not "the law".

8 x these 😉

Are they shipping yet ?

I use Hercules floor grab stands without any issues. Hard to see how it would affect the neck given the tens of kilos of string tension already on the neck 😉

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1485116164' post='3221283'] About 3 tonne. [/quote] It's not exactly underendowed with transformers is it? :-)

Weight ? 😉

[quote name='CameronJ' timestamp='1485110276' post='3221186'] I've got to give the BH550/800 heads from TC a strong mention too as they sound fantastic and if you don't care much for dragging a pedalboard around it has 2 TonePrint effects slots built in. You do sacrifice the Tweetertone and illuminated knobs of the RH series but as the tweetertone feature only works with TC's own cabs I'd question how useful a feature it really is in the grand scheme of things. You'll save a fair bit of cash going the BH route too which leaves more for the cabs ;-) [/quote] Can you illuminate how the tweetertone only works with TC cabs ? :-)

My normal gigging rig is an RH750 into a barefaced S12T.. Never goes above 3 on the RH master..

As I said there is no legal requirement to have one.. See the HSE advice.. If you can point me to an example where someone has been successfully sued for not having a PA tested device ( given that there appear to be no standards for doing so) I would be happy to cede the point to you.. This assumes there is no grossly negligent behaviour. And what certificate? If it exists it's as valid as a Trump degree..Actually less valid...

[quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1485088750' post='3220981'] Why not make a register of your gear, buy some specific 'visual inspection only' stickers and actually learn how to do the formal visual inspection yourself? That way you've not said something's been checked in a way that it hasn't and your gear's probably had a better going-over than a lot out there. That said, I'm trained to be 'competent' to fully PAT computer equipment in public use as part of my job, and when I tested my own moulded-plug mains leads with a calibrated tester I was amazed at how many either failed or were close to failing despite looking absolutely fine, so I'd advocate replacing those every so often irrespective. [attachment=236410:patvisinsp.png] [/quote] .Out of interest what were they failing on ? Earth continuity ?