markstuk

Hard on the singer without a PA :-) All of the pub/club gigging bands around here use a PA (very rare to have one in the venue) - usually just for the vocals and kick/snare.. Bass levels are matched to the drummer. Vox normally a bit louder than it should be as the assumption is that the guitarists will get louder during the gig anyway. Most don't have a sound engineer, so "mixed" from the side during the performance based on feedback from trusted audience members.. First soundcheck done by people with long leads or wireless :-)

[quote name='LayDownThaFunk' timestamp='1476647070' post='3155987'] Spot on. [/quote] You're agreeing with your own post ? :-)

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1476868940' post='3157864'] What I discern, even from the more technically minded on here, is that there is no answer as to why bassists now need 1000 watts when back in the day, when gigs and indeed rehearsals were loud enough to make me temporarily deaf, 100 was fine.. So as one wag just said, watts are obviously not what they used to be. [/quote] Your hearing was better then :-)

[quote name='leschirons' timestamp='1476863481' post='3157790'] I've come to the conclusion that they don't make watts like they used to back in the good old days. When I started in bands in 1968, they were proper watts they were. [/quote] very true.. The summers were better, christmas was special, children respectful, wax cylinders were known to be better than those flat shellac 78's, there were fewer old people to clog the system up and authority figures were beyond criticism :-)

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1476836366' post='3157735'] One point that is being overlooked is the difference in speaker technology. I used a 120 watt Orange graphic head back in the day. With a 2x15" cabinet with 2 very efficient Altec Lansing speakers in it. Nowadays it is a MarkBass LM3 into a 2x10" 4ohm Neo cabinet, which of course means the amp i giving out a max of 500 watts into that 4ohm load. BUT. The neos are down in the 96dB efficiency range whereas the old Altecs were well over 100db efficiency. This translates into more air being moved by the Altecs for a given amount of power applied than is possible with the LM3. So it does mean that far more than just the simple application of "well it four times the power, why aint it four times louder" needs to be taken into consideration. [/quote] Not true of all Neos - the 3012HO from Eminence will do 100+ dB at 1w/1m..

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1476777262' post='3157059'] It's just samples. Granted they are probably very good samples (it's a bit difficult to tell from a YouTube video) and lots of them, but still just samples. [/quote] Pretty much everything is samples or synthesis these days in keyboard land... The days of lugging a B3, Leslie, Rhodes and a Clav to a gig are long gone for 99% of us..

[quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1476775538' post='3157046'] Great... Now I want to cut my fingers off... Me too... That clav is fantastic.. [/quote]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1476736171' post='3156874'] Still no real answer to my question. Why a 1000 watt solid state amp when an old 100 watt valve amp can make your ears bleed? Why is a 1000 watt solid state not producing twice the DBs of a 100 watt valve? [/quote] I think it has been explained (and much better by other bc folk than I did).. cabs are as important (if not more so) than amps...But to answer your original question, the answer is probably somewhere between 2-2.5 times.

1. Big multidriver heavy cabs = many more dB (usually) 2. Amps were driven harder.. 3. Bands that want to be loud are louder than they were.. 4. I remember having a Hiwatt DR201 with a 1 x 15 cab back in the day and I had to push it very hard to keep up with a 100W marshall with a 412.. [quote name='mikel' timestamp='1476734983' post='3156851'] Possibly, but how did bassists back in the day get away with a couple of 100 watt valve amps and a couple of 4 x 12s, even for the biggest gigs,when no self respecting pro bassist now uses less than a 1000 watt amp? [/quote]

I'm sure many other people will chime in - but to sound twice as loud, you need about 10 times the watts... See picture attached.. Watts are Watts are Watts... They're the same whether class A SS, Class D SMPS or Valve.. How fast an amp can deliver a transient and then sustain it is an entirely different matter. But crudely SS amps sound nasty when you push the power stage into distortion whereas valve amps not so much so.. In my experience my Glockenklang Heart Rock is comfortably louder than my Mesa Four:88. My RH750 is about as loud as my Mesa.. But that's not a true 750W RMS (not even near). All into the same cabs.. All of them are capable of blowing my bandmates off the stage..

[quote name='bonzodog' timestamp='1476702080' post='3156362'] Thanks for the replies. Not sure what to look for so Ive took it back to PMT and reluctantly agreed to pay for repair as its just out of the 3 month used warranrty terms. My local repair shop who i tried first wont touch class D stuff apparently. [/quote] Which is a pity as it could be something as simple as a dry joint...

I suspect with a "peak" SPL of 120 dB they're going to be a bit quiet.... Depends on your style/genre though... Compared with an old stalwart like a mackie SRM350 they're 6 db down - so in terms of watts, that's a quarter of the power..

Personally I think the RC4 footswitch from TC Helicon for their RH/Blacksmith/Stacatto heads is a work of genius...

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1476461662' post='3154592'] Yes, kerbs and stairs are probably the big problem for dolly boards, although I've never used one myself. My trolley is a sack barrow type. I want to avoid cutting holes in my cab for rear castors, or spending money on a dolly board for that matter, when a separate trolley (which I already own) is the best solution anyway. I think I'll give the trolley a go first. Unless someone has a convincing argument in favour of another solution. Thanks for the input! [/quote] Sack trolley with big wheels works for me when stairs/gravel/grass are involved.. Mine is identical to this, but only cost me about £30 ... http://www.sacktrucksdirect.co.uk/300kg-solid-toe-sack-truck.html

But at the retail level the Sica is £55 cheaper than the 3012 HO... (about 130 v 185) So you pays your money..... I know Alex does not use the standard 3012HO anymore, but I suspect the new neo drivers he uses are based on it.. Now does anyone want to sell me their 15" BF Compact? :-)

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1476527098' post='3154964'] It's likely to be the 12 K 3 PL model - 700 watts programme. There's only a certain amount you can glean from spec sheets, but it looks to be in the same ballpark as the Eminence offerings. [/quote] Yup, the 3012HO goes slightly better in terms of power handling and more critically is 3dB more efficient... But as you say they are in the same ballpark..

And every picture I see of him with a Thumb it appears to be a fretless one.. With an Ebony fingerboard..

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1476297331' post='3153194'] OK. I think I get that. So with 3-inch inset wheels on the back, the cab would not be level. Would larger rubber feet on the front fix that, or not? The cab design is vertical and won't work properly on it's side. 4 wheels on the bottom should be OK in my limited experience, but it might be a bit top-heavy when moving it. [/quote] Yes... AS in my Barefaced... Or you could could wedge off the back of your cab so the wheels are level - this is how most of the 6x10/8x10's do it...

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1476295625' post='3153169'] Nice one. Which cab are you using it with? I picked up a Blue Sky a month or so back, absolutely loving it. [/quote] Depending on mood - Barefaced S12T or Tecamp 810...

[quote name='scrumpymike' timestamp='1476293133' post='3153144'] Ah, my mistake - Germany will probably be easier/cheaper. Where's the nearest airport for cheap flights? [/quote] If it's only a hour from Pierre in Brussels it must be just over the border from Belgium. A road trip probably makes more sense..

Just bought Mushashimonkeys Glockenklang HeartRock 2... Sounds pretty hefty on first play... Need to take it to rehearsal though and see how it sits in the mix.. Photos will come once I've put it into a nice ventilated swan case...