Dad3353

Indeed; this is only my contribution to this topic as a Member, albeit a Mod for my pains. The Upper Echelon will doubtless statute, if required, over and above the T & Cs already in vigour. I'm not a member of the Police, and don't wish to take on such responsibility, but will act, within the forum rules, on any Report signalled, on this subject or any other. Why does that not suffice..?

I think that referral to the definition of 'fake' would be beneficial. It's only 'fake' if purporting to be what it is not. The simple application of a logo does not constitute a 'fake'; only the 'false' claim that it is what it is not. The use, however, of that unlicensed logo is illegal. Can we drop the (mis...) use of the word 'fake' in this context, please..?

Again, it's not a question of 'deceit'. If the name is trademarked, it cannot be used except by the holder of that trademark or licensees. That's all. If I try to sell custard tarts with a Fender logo on 'em, it infringes their trademark (unless I'm licensed by them to do so...). Nothing else is relevant.

Depends if the 'Limelight' part is a registered trademark, and therefore IP, or not. It's not a question of deceiving people or not.

Another solution, folks. As it's only the logo that's the issue, how about banning photos of these from the Marketplace..? Sell away, post your pics, but never of any trademarked material. Free-for-all description (that's not illegal, as long as it's truthful...) but no headstock shots. Happy with that, y'all..?

Not protected butterflies, I trust..?

And I've already suggested that the definitive answer to having certainty of no infringement is to not sell anything on the site. Be wary of what is asked for. If an infringement is suspected, Report it, and it'll be dealt with, as the Mods and Admins do with all Reports. What more is required, by anyone here..? (No, put your hand down; we're not going to be dishing out popcorn..! )

But that doesn't happen. What does happen is selling basses with a trademarked logo without being made by or licensed from the trademark holder. I'd say that that's a very different proposition. There's no deceit, but an infringement of Intellectual Property (IP...), that 's all.

Be fair; he used to frequent rave parties and EDM houses. Got off lightly, I reckon.

No problem, Karl. Was the logo applied by the factory (or under license...) or not..? That's the only criteria. Modded or not, original or not; no problem. It's only the logo that's protected IP (trademark...)

Controllers can handle at least 256 channels for the cheaper ones; much more for up-market stuff. Why do you need so many, though..? Do you want/need to specify for each individual light in each unit..? Most often one would couple 'em, at least partially... I'll look up a few footswitches a bit later, but there's plenty of stuff out there (Thomann..? Amazon..?) for simple florrboard controllers, I think. Back later...

Yes, but it's bean a bit long, though. A runner bean..?

The 'issue' is not 'bitsa' basses, of any sort or provenance, but solely the application of a trademarked logo, that's all. A bit of masking tape over the offending headstock should do the trick. Am I wrong..?

Don't get 'him up there' started on beans again, please. It doesn't take much to set 'im off.

Whatever the text of an ad, there's no way that we (the Mods...) can know if a logo displayed is genuine or not. The bass may have been made by someone with a license from Fender, for all we know. I'd not like to take down any posts just because someone calls 'Fake' (I'm a drummer, remember..?). Unless there's a definitive Admin ruling on this, I'm not going to change my modding concerning this sort of stuff. If there's an issue (any issue at all...), Report it, and it'll be dealt with on its merits. If ads get deleted as a consequence, so be it. To me, nothing is changed; these rules have always been in place and applied. I's say it's a non-issue.

Fixed.

This is a family-friendly forum; swearing is not allowed. ...

It's in your quote (my Bold...) FAQ and Rules - Quick Version! Hi and welcome to the BC Marketplace.You'll notice that at the top of the forum (under the support tab) there is a page with the full forum and marketplace rules. If like me you prefer things simplified...

Extracts from T & Cs (my Bold...)... ... You also explicitly agree that you shall not: ( a ) provide any content or conduct yourself in any way that may be construed as; unlawful, illegal, threatening, harmful, abusive, harassing, stalking, tortuous, defamatory, libellous, vulgar, obscene, offensive, objectionable, pornographic, designed to interfere or interrupt this web site or any service provided, infecting with a virus or other destructive or deleterious programming routine, giving rise to civil or criminal liability, violate an applicable local, national or international law, impersonate or misrepresent your association with any person or entity, forge or otherwise seek to conceal or misrepresent the origin of any content provided by you, collect or harvest any data about other users. ... ( c ) Provide any content that may give rise to civil or criminal liability of the Administrators, or that may constitute or be considered a violation of any local, national or international law, including -- but not limited to -- laws relating to copyright, trademark, patent, or trade secrets. ... 13. Notification of copyright infringement If you believe that your property has been used in any way that would be considered a copyright infringement or a violation of your intellectual property rights, you agree to contact one of the Administrators immediately to inform them of the breach and to permit them to address your concerns before taking any form of legal advice. ... Rules and Guidelines for the Marketplace ... Guidelines for SELLERS ... 4. Moderators will step in and remove fraudulent or otherwise dodgy items. If there are any concerns or questions please PM a moderator. ... Use of the Marketplace is offered on the basis of good faith. The moderating team accept that 'mistakes' can happen but members should be aware that a pattern of two or more breaches of the above terms may risk loss of access to the Marketplace. ... Maybe worth reading in its entirety..?

There you go again, sticking your neck out.

Sorry to 'bang on' about this, but I really think it needs nailing down. I think we all agree that BC should not (indeed; does not...) condone nor allow illegal activity, in the Marketplace nor elsewhere. We may (or may not..? Any dissenters..?) agree that counterfeiting is illegal, and that application of a trademark other than by its owner is counterfeiting. It would follow, then, that it beholds BC to withdraw any such activity when spotted, by whomsoever. Is this what is recommended..? Is it the 'illegality' that troubles you, or the risk of mis-selling and misrepresentation (or both...)..?

This, then, seems to be the crux of the matter. You are suggesting that, for any ad posted, if someone (anyone..?) spots a purported 'fake', they should Report it, and the Mods or Admin immediately remove the post. Is that a fair description of your suggestion..?

The argument advanced was that, the Ric case notwithstanding, all trademark infringements are trademark infringements, and could, potentially, get the whole site into trouble. The Ric solution was in response to a real threat of such action. If this same threat exists for other trademarks, then surely, whatever the consequences, a similar approach is needed..? Unless there's a better, sure-fire way..? That's what I'd like the OP to suggest: his solution, to see if it really does comply. If so, it could certainly be considered.

Absolutely; it's not mandatory for inclusion in ads either. If one chooses not to, then one forgoes the advantages it could bring, either in an ad or the wider BC community. An example of the latter could be someone wanting advice on set-up, or a transport problem; even local weather conditions; someone local could help, but only if location is given. Not mandatory, then, but often useful. It's a choice, though, same as declaring one's gender or age. I've no problem with that, myself.

Have you a practical way of identifying fake headstock logos (or any other trademark-protected stuff...) before the ad is posted..? Who decides, if such an 'infringement' is identified, if it's a genuine or a fake..? What happens to the ad in the meantime..? The practicalities of this make it such that, in my opinion, any image of any bass (or amp, pedal or whatever...) must be precluded. Have you a better, workable solution that protects both the site from legal action and a Buyer from being misled..? If so, what is it..? Genuine question, not 'nit-picking'. The Ric solution was the best we could come up with (with much regret, but things is things...); must we adopt the same approach for all trademarks..?