Dad3353

If we had to invest in all that hi-tech stuff, we'd have to start charging money to [i]play[/i]..!

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1477141276' post='3160110'] no it doesn't a bass guitar does, a loud kick drum invades my frequency space, nothing worse than an overly loud kick drum IMO of course [/quote] An [i]overly [/i]loud bass is of no use to man nor beast, either, in my opinion.

Yes, I know; I'm old. I've said it before. I was touring with a variety dance band (guitar, bass drums, sax/flute, Rhodes, Hammond...) in the mid-late '70s. As the genre suggests, a whole gamut of styles, from tangos to jazz standards, latest hits and rock standards Chicago, Eagles, Stones... A long list, and a full ring binder. Everything was back-line, including the Leslie for the Hammond, excepting the vocals, sax/flute and Rhodes. We played all sorts and sizes of venues, from almost cathedral halls to marquees to club-houses; very few bars as such. I only once had my drums mic'ed, when I had a bass drum batter head split during set-up, and had to nail a square of plywood to each side of the head where the beater strikes. This produced a very thin 'Poc..! Poc..!'; an SM57 was laid into the shell and given a desk channel, and a quite convincing 'disco' sound dialled in. At no other time were the drums mic'ed; they never lacked presence, nor were too loud. One adapts to the room/venue, as do the other musicians, and no-one needs ear-plugs. 'Old school'..? Yes, certainly, but it worked then, and works now. For an outdoor festival, or an arena, the proportions are different, but for 'ordinary' gigs, a reasonable quality back-line controlled by competent musicians has always been successful. Other technologies are now available (including playing MIDI samples only through software, seated behind a table with headphones on...), and a good evening's entertainment can be had with other methods, I don't doubt, but there's no need to change what's not broken, either. If it's good, it's good. While I respect the point of view of someone starting from scratch coming to different conclusions that us old buffers, I don't see why derision or scorn has to be poured on anyone using tried and tested techniques that work well. If it's done badly, a hi-tech solution will be cr@p, too, I suspect. Good gear, well used is fine now as then. Other options are now available..? Good.

[quote name='leroydiamond' timestamp='1477057906' post='3159584']...a little more oomph from the kick drum... [/quote] Have you (and the drummer, of course..!) exhausted all of the options of tuning, changing the batter and/or resonant head..? Using an un-ported head..? There's a lot that can be done to change the overall tone of any drum. Just a thought..?

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1477045997' post='3159435']...shouting very loudly in the ears of the most attractive girls in the audience... [/quote] Another advocate of In-Ear Monitoring, then..?

[quote name='HengistPod' timestamp='1477044700' post='3159417']... What's a BL, by the way? [/quote] BL = Band Leader

You really are a funny old lot, sometimes. My bass drum needs no amplification whatsoever, and is, in itself, by concept, a 'sub'. We sometimes add a spot of 'kick' (but not the low end...) into the tops, just to 'integrate it a little, not to make it louder. We don't play LOUD; we play at reasonable volumes (it's rock, but the idea is not to pin folks to the back wall...). Yes, we could go amp-less and use an electronic kit. The net result for us, with the new PA, plus in-ears, mics, stands etc, would be an expense with no real benefit, as we already have a satisfactory result. Why can it not be understood that there can be several solutions, and several interpretations..? Yes, I'm 'old school' mainly (but not only...) because I'm old..! I've known how to do this successfully (modestly...) for close to fifty years. I've spent almost as much time behind the desk, both for FOH, monitoring and lights, as I have drumming. I've toured most of France with Kiemsa, and played all sorts of dates with The Daub'z, without counting the weddings and functions as a duo, or with a swing band, and the several years assisting with our local summer festival, Les Trois Elephants. No, this not bragging; just suggesting that, if I'm no longer [i]au parfum[/i] of the latest trends, pubs is pubs is pubs, and there are more ways to skin a cat. You are, indeed, a funny old lot, sometimes.

[quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1476985647' post='3159047'] Why? Subs give the low end frequencies that tops just can't give. There's a difference between fidelity and volume. The latter has to be appropriate for the venue. [/quote] The bass cab [i]is [/i]the sub. No need for any more in the venues we normally play. Bigger scenes have the full works, but bars..? No need, for us.

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1476978877' post='3158967'] Sendind everything to the PA provides a better overall sound mix... [/quote] You're perhaps playing in larger venues than we usually do. For a concert hall, I'd entirely agree, but for a pub/club/bar, there's absolutely no need (for us...) to mic up guitar half-stacks, nor the bass. Once the PA volume is set for the singer, we all play to that level. We're not trying to deafen anyone, and in a small (ish...) room, no instrumental band would even need a PA at all. One has to reign in more than turn up in most places we play. Not the same for festivals, or open air stages, of course, but pubs..? Nah; voice only (and a touch of bass drum, sometimes...).

How many drummers have been made redundant by drum machines..?

[quote name='plumbob' timestamp='1476900151' post='3158323']... Oh I can never get that youtube thing to work can someone do it for me , ta ! [/quote] For next time;;; Copy the link given by the 'Share' button, which is just above the Uploaded date, above the Comments. Paste the link into the post being edited. Delete the 's' from the 'https' at the start of that link Enjoy..!

http://youtu.be/LQBkoqjL6pw

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1476892958' post='3158210'] From what i'm reading here most of the bands that use a PA for vox in fact only have a pair of tops. With a couple of subs below (and if you've got a quality PA) your bass sound will be better overall and dispersed through every corner of the venue. We have a low volume on stage sound, i can hear everybody, both guitar combos and vocal monitor and they can hear me. If i had to push my amp to fill the room (and if the guitars did the same) i would start to lose parts of the drum kit and wouldn't be able to hear the vocals (neither would the singer). [/quote] We use only tops in pub-size venues. The bass through our Hiwatt and HH cab give as good as any sub, so we wouldn't benefit. Vox only, and a smidgen of bass drum in the tops (no 'bottom-end punch, just a presence, that's all...). No point in a pair of subs either; the bass will be spread just fine with just one in most venues. That's what the bass cab is [i]for[/i], in fact..!

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1476884373' post='3158088'] For those of you only using minimal PA - any of you using an SVT Classic with two large cabs as your bass backline? [/quote] Does a Hiwatt DR205 and an HH 2x15 count..? Not that we play loud at all; our amps have volume pots that work.

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[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1476861754' post='3157778'] I dont disagree with any of this, but plug your 1000 watt solid state amp into your Altec loaded cab in an AB test with the Orange and what would be the result? Thats what I am trying to discern, is there a marked difference in the watt rating for modern solid state amps compared with valve amps, now or from back in the 70s? [/quote] Once the SS amp started to deliver the same db level as the Orange, the speakers would start to melt. The audible output would not increase over the Orange, and the full potential power of the ss amp would not be available. My PA, back in the early '70s, was a 200w Hiwatt DR205. The cabs for that were a pair of these... Those stacks are over 6 ' tall, and their sheer mass affects the moon's orbit. We used 'em for rock concerts in some quite big venues (2000+..?), and there was no lack of FOH. Only 200w of valves. I don't think any 200w ss amp could even get close to the sound of that rig; I would rather bet on needing at least 1 kw of ss amp. The Hiwatt 200w is, I reckon, rather a conservative estimate, and many ss amps are the opposite.

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Most of Jack Casady's work; special mention for 'Bless Its Pointed Little Head' and his contribution to 'Blows Against The Empire'. Regularly fine with Hot Tuna too, although in a different vein.

Lots of expressions come to mind, such as 'The grass is always greener...' and 'A bird in the hand...'. Although there's always 'Don't hide your light under a bushel' too, I suppose. Why this sudden evangelistic ambition, though..? Has there been a shock to the system, or just a late spell of jealousy..?

Years (decades...) ago, I wrote it all out long-hand, into a ring-binder for use on my music stand (drum parts, mostly...). Nowadays I use Guitar Pro 6; I can play it back and check the timings, rhythms and stuff. It's only for my own comfort now, though, as I rarely play out.

Phosphor-bronze strings will not work well on an electric guitar, as they have very weak (if at all...) magnetic properties required for a normal, magnetic pick-up. You can try 'em, but the result will probably disappoint. I was rather intrigued, though, by the instigation for this. A change from the [i]look [/i]of standard strings..? Someone actually [i]looks [/i]at these things..? i could only recommend Humbrol enamel paint, but let it dry first. At least there's a whole range of colours.

That seems simple enough to me; just tune the guitar in fourths, no..? The 'B' gets tuned up to 'C', the top 'E' becomes an 'F' and that's it..! 'Standard' tuning is only that, 'standard'. One may deviate from that 'standard' if that suits the music you want to play. Think of open tunings, for instance..? There are no hard-and-fast rules (but you'd have to adapt if also playing 'standard' chords, of course...). Try it out, it won't break anything. Just a thought, though. If this change from fourths to thirds bothers you, it would imply (to me...) that you're playing from a purely 'positional', or 'shape' point of view. Any tuning can be handled, once one gets to know the notes and intervals well enough. Transposing on a piano, for instance, involves forgetting about 'shapes', and thinking (or rather, 'knowing'...) the sound of each key. Similarly with a guitar, the notes are where they are; one gets to 'know' how they sound, and that's all. Just a thought.

What's your remaining question regarding the Pre and PreX..? These are not the most common interfaces to be found in domestic settings, so there's less folks with 'hands on' experience with 'em. We use Motus (Traveller and another I've forgotten the name of...); I can't imagine that interfaces in these ranges are really, really bad. I thought it had come down to 'get stuck in first, then see what you need/want after a while'; is that not the situation..?

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1476304582' post='3153265'] Have you seen Dad3353's live show! [/quote] Oi, less of that..! I'll have you know that [i]some [/i]vintage kit is quite decent..! (... [i]and I'll claim first dibs on any Hiwatt stuff you stumble across, please.[/i] )

Superlux HD 669. Not cheap; inexpensive.