Skol303

Nice one Rob. Just having a listen now... sounds very nice! Clean mix. Catchy changes. I like the vocal and lyrics too. Great work mate. If this is a taste of things to come, then I think you're in for a great run with this song-a-week- mission of yours!

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1359806951' post='1960519']Not quite like the situation in the OP, but back in the mid 80s my band turned down the opportunity to work with William Orbit.[/quote] ^ I've lots of happy (and quite trippy) memories attached to William Orbit and Strange Cargo 2 in particular. Shame that studio session didn't work out. I've never had any real opportunities while playing in bands. But as a DJ I did once miss out on becoming a resident on one of the Megadog tours (mid-90s rave), which I suppose were a big deal on the dance scene at the time. Had it all set up by a mate of who worked at a London label and was the girlfriend of the tour manager. They split up a fortnight before my first gig and I got dumped along with her. I learnt then that the old 'who you know' saying rings true. I gave up on DJing, became a music journo and promptly slagged off that particular Megadog tour. Dish best served cold, etc... ;-)

Cheers Keith. Wow... 33 stems... That's an altogether different kind of challenge. I only hope my 'puter is up to it! I'll have a crack at loading them up this weekend and testing the water, so to speak. [s]Any chance of a copy of the original track in the meantime? Be useful to hear as a reference.[/s] Just found it on SoundCloud! Here's the link for anyone else who wants a listen: https://soundcloud.com/dientesband/mission-ray

^ Thanks Milty! I'm going to do some homework on this over the weekend. Interesting to hear your thoughts on the difference between single coil and humbuckers. I'm going to investigate the types used by bass players I like (i.e. whose tone I like) and scribble some notes. I'm very aware that the p'ups are going to have a BIG impact on the sound, so it's not something I'm going to rush into. Besides, I'm really enjoying learning about all this stuff Thanks again for the input mate.

Just wanted to say I think this is a brilliant idea! Looking forward to following the bass as it goes on tour.

Ok, here's February's image... [sharedmedia=core:attachments:126594] ...no idea why it's appearing twice in the post! Using Mrs Skol's notebook and likely doing something hamfisted to cause this. But anyway. I've tried to pick something that everyone can hopefully get their teeth into somehow. I've also been visiting a lot of cold places so far this year, which has clearly influenced my choice! (although I haven't been [i]that[/i] far north as yet...). Go!

WOOT! [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP4Va75FLBo"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP4Va75FLBo[/url] Thanks Garry, Stephen, Lurks, Nige, Dad, Graeme, Mike, OldG, Bobby, Rick and everyone else for words of cheer! Much appreciated fellas I’m just back from a day on the road so about grab a cup of char and get searching for February’s photo. Won’t be long…!

I honestly don't mind if we leave the voting open today and have a re-count. It's better than losing all the votes, right?? I will however have to take down the party streamers, cancel the brass band, have the celebratory tattoo removed, break the news to my son that his father is no longer a hero... that sort of thing. But no big deal. I can wipe away the tears and get over it. Some day

Nice thread Nige! Double bass for me. It's been my favourite instrument for as long as I can remember. I just [i]love[/i] the sound of an upright. One day I'll hopefully learn how to play one myself...

Well I'll be damned... I thought there was another day of voting on this! Hugely chuffed to have compared so well against such sterling entries. Only six this month, but I thought each one was excellent. Really. Either for the production quality, the ideas/creativity or both. A disappointing amount of votes: 21 is a paltry number given the size of this community, so I say we make an extra effort to drum up support for the next one. I'd love to see 100 or more people voting each month - not a vanity thing, just seems like a fair target for a forum of this size! But heh, I don't want to sound ungrateful. And a huge thanks to those 20 of you who voted alongside myself. Very much appreciated. So, on to the next one! I'll do some pondering over the photo and PM Rick with something (un)suitable today. PS: having given up smoking some years ago, I now find myself completely addicted to these monthly challenges! I guess we all have our vices, eh? [quote name='charic' timestamp='1359621068' post='1957545']... and the winner is... [b]Skol303[/b]![/quote] I think you won too mate! 20:2 in favour of you getting off your "lazy butt"... your words not mine [quote name='Bobby K' timestamp='1359623879' post='1957598']WELL DONE PAUL [/quote] Thanks Bob! [quote name='OldG' timestamp='1359624551' post='1957613']+1 I've played Make it right maybe 2 or 3 times a day for a while now - can't leave it alone![/quote] Cheers OldG! That's a huge compliment. I'm genuinely flattered mate [quote name='urb' timestamp='1359626598' post='1957669']Well done Paul - if you keep this up you'll have an album - or an EP at least - by the end of the year... nice one![/quote] Thanks Mike! I'm actually considering doing something like that this year... picking my favourites from these challanges, maybe tweaking them a little in response to the feedback I've had, and packaging up a little EP on Bandcamp, or similar (maybe as a charity project). This is really the first time I've focussed on creating original material, rather than remixing other folks' music, so I've found it all very inspiring and rewarding (these challanges have been a great 'shot in the arm' confidence-wise!).

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1359549805' post='1956381']If you're ever in the area you're more than welcome to try out my ACG. It's in Drop C though [/quote] Wow, that's a super-kind offer Rick I do occasionally meander through Cambridgeshire with work - I'll bear it in mind. Be good to buy you a beer anyway! [quote name='Dave Vader' timestamp='1359560144' post='1956651']The most pleasingly bassy sound which fits what you describe, that I have ever got comes from an old kay pick up (yep, from a cheap EB3alike i got for £25). Slammed near the neck in my Fretless roadstar/warmoth bitsa. I am keeping the other one for the moment the one I am using breaks irrepairably, due to being from a Kay.[/quote] It's often the way, innit?! I've got a cheap Hohner Rockwood that I de-fretted, and the p'ups on the that have a surprisingly nice tone - virtually no high end, just bagloads of lows which can sound quite nice. In fact, the EQ pot does practically nothing - it kinda varies from lows, to lots of lows (PS: this one is the 'project bass' I'm planning to strip down to the wood and re-paint fairly soon).

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1359563197' post='1956720']Why have I only just found this thread?! Great stuff everyone, I'm going to go back and read all of the amazing stuff you've written about how you've gotten to your mixes. I voted for Skol's. Out of them all, it fit itself into the right sound space for me. It was there, in front of you, with the right things going on at the sides. One of the defining parts of the track for me was when the guitars came in at 35 seconds in. This needed something special happening to the sound of them and Paul got it spot on. Nice one [/quote] Thanks Paul! Really appreciate the kind words and glad you liked it [quote name='charic' timestamp='1359566768' post='1956792']Fair enough, the only other problem with protools is you can't use VSTs [/quote] Well I never knew that! Very surprised that Pro Tools doesn't use VSTs, especially with it being the 'industry standard' studio DAW (sort of).

^ Nice one Charic! Great ideas there mate. I have a lot of Googling to do when I get home after work this evening... Will definitely be checking out Wizard p'ups and ACG pre-amps. Thanks for the suggestions.

[quote name='OldG' timestamp='1359548403' post='1956341']You got me gassing that Softube gear too...[/quote] Ah, you're not the only one! They make [i]great[/i] plug-ins... truly some of the best you can buy without spending stupid money, in my opinion. But even still they're not cheap. Keep an eye out for bundles: they did a recent offer with the FET Compressor, the Trident A-Range EQ and something else (which I forget) for around $100 all in. The Trident is definitely worth looking at. It's probably the last EQ I'll ever consider spending money on... it's got a very analogue feel (no visual assistance, it's all ears when using it) but it's a very 'musical' EQ with a fantastic character. I think you can download demos for all of their products which might be worth playing with...

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1359540003' post='1956196']Ta for all the details!![/quote] No probs Si! I actually enjoyed scribbling that description - made me think about how I approach my mixes. Interesting point you make about stereo widening. I'll try applying it to just a few tracks (or maybe only one) next time and compare. The Softube FET compressor is actually a great tool - best compressor I've used to date - it's super fast and has a nice 'character' all of its own, But you're right in that it's obviously a simulation of a real Field Effect Transistor unit! That said, Softube do a fantastic job of emulating vintage analogue gear - it's kinda their specialty - and I picked this plug-in up for cheap when it was first launched as a plug-in for Reason. The VST version is too pricey for my pocket, but worth the investment (IMO) if you ever see it on special offer). Details [url="http://www.softube.com/fet_compressor.php"]here[/url]. PS: forgot to mention earlier that I set up a Haas effect on each guitar (or at least I tried to!) - i.e. duplicating each guitar channel, panning each hard left/right and its duplicate to the opposite position (left or right) with a -10db drop in volume (compared to the original guitar channel) and a delay of around 30ms. The idea is this 'widens' the sound by simulating the way our ears naturally hear things. Thought I'd add this here for anyone unfamiliar with the effect. [quote name='redstriper' timestamp='1359545945' post='1956293']Thanks a lot for that great in depth analysis Skol, I will listen again to your mix with new ears now. It puts my mix to shame - just a few pre sets and none of the fancy stuff for me! I will try and utilise some of your ideas on my next project - we just recorded a new album, (10 tracks in one evening) and I'm about to start on the mixing.......[/quote] It's actually a lot less fancy than I probably make it sound! And all just things I've learned over the past two years, since I got back into making music. My advice would be to take it step by step and just try to incorporate a new technique or idea in each new mix you produce, rather than trying to learn loads of new stuff at once (which I personally find a bit overwhelming). I'm [i]definitely[/i] no expert - just someone with a bit of patience and a willingness to learn - that's literally all you need to start making big improvements.

Hi folks, Quick update on this project: the woods and construction type have been decided (see above) and the materials are now on order. This gives some time for me to start pondering what sort of pick ups and EQ would best suit this bass... Paul ([url="http://www.13guitarco.com/"]13 Guitar Co[/url]) has offered lots of very useful advice on this already. And as always, I'll be trusting his own judgement on what's best. But in the spirit of this project I also wanted to get some feedback from fellow Basschatters on what you'd recommend, or what you've found works well on the basses you own. [size=5][b]So... what are your thoughts and suggestions for choice of pickups?[/b][/size] Paul has been helpful in giving me some things to think about, which I'll share here too. He's described the pickups and strings as being crucial for the overall 'sound' of the instrument, whereas the woods and construction contribute to its natural EQ and envelope (attack, sustain and decay). I think in terms of mixing audio, so this description made good sense to me. Overall, I'm looking for a warm, low tone from this bass - more bottom end than top/treble. I play fingerstyle (rarely use a pick and almost never slap). The sound I have in my head is akin to modern dub/reggae recordings... I'll try to put together some audio samples or YouTube clips and upload them here, as that's probably the best way of communicating the sound I'm envisaging (rather than calling it "fat" or whatever ). Here are some useful links that Paul has shared on this topic, which might interest some of you: http://www.notreble.com/buzz/2010/11/16/bass-pickups-a-guide-to-formulating-your-sound/ http://www.frudua.com/how_pickups_work.htm Comments and suggestions very welcome as always!

[b]ARRANGEMENT[/b] I decided to mess with the arrangement a little. I made the intro more gentle, with the drums pretty much absent (apart from a few snares and the hats) until mid-way through the first verse. The intention here was to help the song build up more towards the chorus. I also added a breakdown during the third verse, removing everything apart from the vocal and one of the guitars. Again, this was to give the song more dynamics and help it build further towards the final chorus and outro. I also automated the faders of each track to add some dynamics between the verse/chorus and outro. Essentially I made the outro the loudest section (+4db louder than the verse), followed by the chorus (+3db louder than the verse). [b]MIXDOWN[/b] I always render my mixes down to a single file and then apply some final effects to the track as a whole (I'd like to call it 'mastering', but that would be a huge injustice to real mastering engineers!). I use an odd trick that I found recommended on a mixing forum, which is to add an EQ to the master bus (i.e. so that it affects the whole mix) and reduce by -2db at 12kHz using a gradual slope (or Q setting). Then render the mix, and add +2db back at 12kHz in when 'mastering'. It sounds pointless, but I've found it bizarrely helps to give the track the perception of greater volume - only slightly, but I notice it (don't ask me why! It's voodoo). My final 'mastering' effects were set up as shown below. This included: - An initial EQ to cut a gentle scoop out of the mid-range (helping to reduce 'muddiness') and sharp cut at 4.5kHz (the frequency that our ears find most tiring and annoying!). - A more 'musical' EQ, including high-pass/low-pass filters at 25Hz and 15Hz (to help create a wee bit of headroom in the final mix). - A stereo imager, making everything below 255Hz mono and slightly widening everything above this frequency. - A stereo splitter device, adding a very slight volume boost to the frequencies that had been widened by the stereo imager (above). - Some fairly gentle compression to help 'glue' the mix together. - Some gentle reverb, with the aim of helping everything sound like it's occupying the same 'space' (hopefully that makes sense?). … and that's it! Job done If you managed to read all that then hopefully some of it was useful. I doubt I'll be giving such detailed notes of each mix, but I thought I'd make the effort with this first one in case it helps other folks. Happy to answer any questions, etc...

[b]KEYS[/b] Not too much messing with the keys! A fairly steady EQ as shown below, some tape saturation and compression to help fit the sound within the mix without mudding up the mid-range and fighting with the guitars. [b]VOCALS[/b] I always mix vocals last, as it helps me place them in the mix and give them the priority the (usually!) deserve. I really like the vocal line in this track - particularly the accent ("rrroad rage" - really nice!), so I wanted it to be quite prominent. The lead vox were treated to some mild overdrive/distortion, an EQ boost around 5kHz and 12kHz (with the low end rolled off beneath 100Hz), plus some compression just to even everything out and make it easier to mix. I added some vocal rides (volume automation) in a few places to tighten up some phrases that the compressor couldn't fix (without squishing everything too much). Lastly I added a fairly generous dollop of warm 'hall' reverb as shown below: …I also set up an 'echo' effect, which was automated to switch on at certain points to give a kind of 'call and response' to the lead vocal. The backing vocal was treated much more simply: just an EQ (rolling off the lower frequencies more steeply) and a separate reverb, to help position the backing vocal slightly further 'back' in the soundstage of the mix.

[b]BASS[/b] I ran the bass through a Line 6 bass amp/head sim - not really changing the sound too much, but adding some 'warmth' to it. I then added some saturation (mild distortion) to help it cut through the mix and add some upper harmonics. Some moderate compression (4:1 ratio) to even out the sound and a big ol' scoop out of the mid-range using an EQ (a 10db cut at 400Hz), leaving plenty of room for the guitars and other stuff. I also setup a side-chain compressor on the bass - a separate compressor to 'duck' (reduce the volume of) the baseline by around -2db whenever the kick drum hits. The idea being to help the kick cut through the mix and help reduce the bass and kick drum competing with each other for the low end of things. [b]GUITARS[/b] Both guitars were run through separate Line 6 guitar amps. Guitar 1 (panned right in my mix - the first guitar you hear) was run through a 'Blackface' amp/cab simulator. I recorded some automation on the 'wah pedal' effect on this guitar, which you can hear at certain points in the track. Guitar 2 (panned left) was given a simple 'clean' sound. A second amp was linked up to Guitar 2 and automated to switch on (in place of the 'clean' amp) during the pre-chorus and chorus. This changed the sound to a more distorted tone, giving the song some 'lift' and interest where I felt it was needed (although in hindsight, this probably changed the overall vibe too much!). I also added a further distortion plug-in to this track which kicks in right at the end of the song, giving it further lift during the crescendo (literally the last half bar or so), and adding some nice amp hum at the end. At least I thought it was nice! :-) Each guitar was run through a separate FET compressor and then summed together in a sub-mix group, which included an EQ and reverb set as shown below:

[b]DRUMS[/b] I EQ'd the kick as shown below, scooping out the mids and giving it a boost around 1kHz to add some 'click' in order to help it cut through the mix a little better: I also added some saturation to the kick (mid distortion, again to help it punch through the mix) and finally compression. The snare top and bottom were EQ'd as shown below and mixed with greater emphasis placed on the bottom sound (i.e. fading out most of the top 'ring' sound). Top: Bottom: Both snares were then fed through another EQ (Trident A-Range), which I use for the purpose of gelling the top and bottom snare sounds together, and adding some musical quality to the overall sound (the Trident is a superbly 'musical' EQ). Here I boosted quite generously at 500Hz and again at 3kHz and 12kHz - adding some 'oomph' to the bottom snare and brightening the top end. The hi hat… oh man, the hi hat! I almost ditched this completely but doggedly persevered. Here's how I EQ'd it - my aim being to remove as much of the snare bleed as possible and salvage what remained. It wasn't pretty… Lastly, with the djembe I simply rolled off the lower frequencies (a fairly brutal shelving EQ of -18db at 134Hz) to leave plenty of room for the bass and kick drum. Each of the drums tracks were then grouped into a sub-mix with it's own separate EQ and (gentle) compression to help 'gel' the various tracks together.

Ok, I've [i]finally[/i] got round to writing up some notes on my mix. Apologies for the delay. Crazy busy at work and dealing with a minor biohazard outbreak at home (Skol Jnr has chickenpox!). So here goes… I'm going to list stuff in (roughly) the order I went about mixing the track, in case that helps anyone: [b]SET UP[/b] Once I had the tracks set up in Reason (the DAW I use), I went about listening to each in turn (to get a feel for how each track would need processing) and then I created a rough first mix using the gain control on the Reason mixer (itself an emulation of an [url="http://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/index.cfm?fuseaction=get_article&article=mixer"]SSL 9000k[/url] mixing desk… but that's not important). I left about 6db of headroom on the master output to allow 'room' for the mix I was going to create. At this stage I made some initial decisions about the arrangement. I ditched the 2nd djembe - its timing was off so I duplicated the first one in its place. I also duplicated the drum patterns from the 2nd verse and chorus, and repeated these throughout the track. Why? Because I felt the timing wasn't great in the other sections and I didn't have time to fix them - so I chose the most tightly played parts and used these as the basis for the drums. This was achieved by turning the original audio into Rex loops (using a program called [url="http://www.propellerheads.se/products/recycle/"]Recycle[/url]), which enabled me to adjust the 'groove' of the drums slightly and generally tighten everything up. Cheating? Hell yeah!

OH YES! Huge Conchords fan here. Was lucky enough to see them live in Manchester a couple of years ago. "Dad guitar". Nuff said ;-)

There are companies that offer the same thing for SoundCloud plays and Facebook/Twitter followers. I don't think it's ever legit - I'm fairly sure the terms and conditions of these sites prohibit it. Most of them have smartened up and are now wise to it (Twitter had a big purge of fake followers last year), but it still happens. I entered a remix competition last year that was decided on SoundCloud plays... I was chuffed to get something like 500 plays. The winner had 14000! :-)

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1359385620' post='1953889']My advice is to get the stems of the track in question and do the tempo change on all the stems, then reimport them into logic and render the mix. If you just do the stereo mix it will be far more obvious that its been 'played with' than if you do the individual stems then redo the mix. The results I've had from this approach has been staggering...[/quote] ^ Good point there Si. I hadn't throught about adjusting each stem individually. As an update to this thread... I tried time-stretching in Reason using the entire track at high resolution (24-bit/96kHz). It didn't create any artefacts and sounded ok to my ears, but Dave reported that it had a slight "hollowness" (akin to MP3 compression) when compared to the other original tracks. That was as far as we got!

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1358785485' post='1944944'] Hey Paul - I know you like your remix comps, this might interest you [and maybe others]............................... [url="http://www.puremix.net/zelab/"]http://www.puremix.net/zelab/[/url] Garry [/quote] I had a look into this remix comp and unfortunately you need to be a paid up member of Puremix to take part: a minimum of $90 for 3 months membership. Looks like a useful site but a little too expensive for my pocket. Shame, as it's a great track and would have been fun to remix! Thanks anyway Garry and keep us posted if you spot any others. I've used this website myself in the past - can be hit and miss, but it does a good job of compiling info on various current competition from across the t'interweb: http://www.remixcomps.com/