Skol303

Sorry Dood, but I read the topic as 'SEX Shock Mount?'. I guess that'd be a totally different product - and forum I'll get me coat...

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1358376877' post='1938340']... I remember someone on here (Mr Letts I'm talking to you) talking about how his favoured bass building wood was mahogany so I would see if he would let you pick his brain.[/quote] Cheers the input Luke, appreciated. The build is now going ahead with a mahogany/wenge through-neck and mahogany 'wings' making up the body. Paul (13 Guitar Co) is likewise a supporter of mahogany as a good material for basses. I've played - but not owned - a few myself and always found them to have a nice solid tone/feel and a great appearance too; it's a lovely wood all round!

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asschat"]Asschat[/url] NB: that link is safe for work - no, really!

[quote name='jaydentaku' timestamp='1358361046' post='1937856']Ah, the Warwick clothes rack. Lay some f***ing beats, whilst drying your smalls.[/quote] Honestly... some of the posts on BC just genuinely make me laugh out loud sometimes. That's one of them. Nice one!

[quote name='chaypup' timestamp='1358375925' post='1938311']simple but nice [/quote] I [i]love[/i] the b-line to Brown Paper Bag! First thing I played when I made my DIY fretless. However.... it always sounds like total s*** live. I saw him play in Manchester just before (or maybe) after he won the Mercury Music Prize in whenever it was (hazy days, can you tell?!). And I was very disappointed. The studio version rocks, however: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEBoVhx_hDk

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1358351082' post='1937560']Voting starts 24/1/13[/quote] Aaaarrrgghh... and there's me planning a late night next Thursday, thinking the deadline was Friday. You are a cruel taskmaster, Charic! [quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1358352580' post='1937603']i plan to enter but have been doing work for 3 bands.... arrrgghhh[/quote] Wow, nice one Rob! That sounds like a good way to be kept busy mate.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1358349845' post='1937515']I think you'll find that Skol has chosen the neck through design mostly on the fact that he has so many frets, so for playability, he has opted for neck through.[/quote] Spot on Milty! Took the words out of my mouth But I don't think Uncle Psych was aiming that comment at me directly (in fact he's just said so! I need to type faster...). In fact I agree with his point that although material choice does have [i]some[/i] impact on tone, it arguably has much less impact than things like pickups, playing style, etc, etc. You're right though that my choice was primarily about the practicality of reaching the higher frets on a 28-fret neck. No point in having a heel in the way, as BRX mentioned earlier. [quote name='charic' timestamp='1358350018' post='1937525']Pffft... everyone knows that ekky-ekky-ekky-ptang-nuwop-ni is brighter than double-mocha-skinny-latte-wenge [/quote] Well, I was going to opt for Peruvian mwang-mwang pygmy excreted chipboard, but the pygmies are on strike and playing hard ball over it, so heh

Bloomin' 'eck, what's got into everybody this month? Lots of early bird entries which is great! Looking forward to listening to them all. Doubt I'll have mine done until the end of next week - it's gone stupid busy at work - but it's coming along.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1358241534' post='1935217']If you were going for 20", you probably might as well just get a flat fretboard.[/quote] I've been trying our various basses in my local Dawsons (it's the nearest music shop to where I work) and I've found that flatter boards suit my playing style a wee bit better - maybe it's the lower action or something, but I think a 20" radius will be great for me. I'm not sure if it matters [i]that[/i] much on basses anyway - Paul and others have commented that it's more an issue for guitars, where some players prefer a more rounded fretboard for forming chords and whatnot. But I guess each player is different! [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1358271063' post='1936079']I have basses with all three types of neck construction but they are also made out of completely different materials and have completely different hardware pickups and electronics fitted. I have no idea what difference the way the neck joins the body makes to the overall sound, and I doubt anyone else can.[/quote] Good point. In this case I'm opting for a through-neck primarily because it'll give the best access to the upper frets; secondly because from what I've read and experienced trying out different basses it can help to give more sustain and a 'warmer' tone (obviously highly subjective); and thirdly because they look great and I've always dreamed of owning one! [quote name='eude' timestamp='1358285583' post='1936549']Don't worry, I'm not actually in the huff, I hoped the smilie would have made that clear [/quote] No worries Eude, I didn't think for a second that anyone was getting heated! It's actually been a very interesting debate. By the way, I think you're right about Warwick starting to use wenge again... fairly sure I read about that while researching different wood types (which has become something of a new hobby!).

Ooh, a spoiler button! Now that is neat. I'm going to resist clicking it until I've re-listened to them all voted myself. But buttons are very tempting, especially one marked 'spoiler'. Must. Resist. Pressing. Button... Ok I'm outta here before my willpower fails Nice idea though, Charic. I'll jot down some notes myself and post them once I'm done. PS: when does the voting end?

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1358268922' post='1936028']I'm intrigued to know what would make you remove this choice when ordering a bass.[/quote] [quote name='eude' timestamp='1358269567' post='1936045']+1I actually prefer the sound of bolt-on basses, and in my experience a well made custom bolt-on has just as much sustain as any through or set neck bass I've ever played...[/quote] In this instance, the decision for a through-neck design is largely because it's a 28-fret bass (hence this design choice allows maximum access to the upper frets). There's also the consideration of tone: I'm looking for something warm and dark with a good sustain, and a through-neck can contribute to this (although of course there are lots of other factors to consider in determining tone - not least things like pickups, etc). My other (two) basses are bolt-ons and I'm very happy with them. So the decision here IMO isn't about which is the 'better' choice generally, but which is the best choice for this particular bass. Still, it'd be interesting to hear thoughts on this from people who know more about the subject than I do!

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1358257704' post='1935679']Regarding bolt-on neck basses, I've not come across one where the joint doesn't hamper your playing in some way. The better ones manage to move the joint closer to the end of the neck, but they generally do this by offering more frets than a standard Fender-style neck so you still end up with difficult to access frets - they're just higher up the neck. I'd want to play a bolt-on neck example with improved upper neck access to check it really did deliver before committing to this route. As for bolt-on necks making repairs easier, in almost 40 years of playing and owning guitars an basses I have never had any problems with necks that would have me investigating this option.[/quote] [quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1358259864' post='1935759'] I would not go for a bolt on neck just because 'you might break it' or whatever. They are not the way to make a 'real' bass. IMO folks. If someone offers to make you a neck through you would be a fool to say "no, can you please screw the neck on instead"...I'm absolutely sure that Paul is offering all the support you need.[/quote] ^ Very useful and reassuring comments there gents, hugely appreciated! I'm pretty much set on a through-neck design, so good to hear your positive thoughts on that choice. Paul is being great to be honest - very helpful and knowledgable, but also giving me plenty of room to be creative and suggest my own ideas. I couldn't ask for more. I'm also learning [i]loads[/i] of new things already, which is a bonus. PS: I'd love an old Burns bass! Very nice indeed. That sounds like a particularly good one. PPS: interesting note about what defines someone as being 'luthier'. I'd never thought about it that way. Paul makes guitars too (y'know, those tiny 6-string mini-bass things I've heard about ) and I've always used the term loosely to mean "someone who makes stringed instruments". But heh, I'm no expert!

[quote name='JimBobTTD' timestamp='1358227663' post='1935125']I have a neck-through bass made of mahogany and wenge with mahogany wings with a maple cap. I think this would be a great combination for a neck-through.[/quote] That's good to hear, cheers for the input! Likewise, I've pretty much settled on a through-neck made from mahogany and wenge - seems like the perfect choice given the tone I'm after. [quote name='charic' timestamp='1358234080' post='1935138']Fwiw I tend toward bolt ons mainly because if (god forbid) the neck gets damaged beyond repair then a bolt on is much more salvagable[/quote] Good point mate... I know there's more risk involved in owning a through-neck, but I'm planning on being extra careful with this bass! Plus a through-neck design really suits this particular bass I think - especially with it having those additional upper frets. But I know what you mean - I'm certainly going to handle with care [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1358250959' post='1935449']While it's nice to ruminate on these things, aren't they what your luthier should be advising you on? That's their area of expertise after all. The way I see it when ordering a custom bass, you tell your luthier how you want it to play, sound and look and then they go away and draw up a specification that satisfies those conditions.[/quote] Absolutely! And rest assured Paul at 13 Guitar Co is doing just that. We're swapping a lot of emails outside of this forum and all of the material/design choices are either based on his own expertise or throughly checked by him to make sure it's going to deliver the bass I'm looking for. Sorry, I probably should have mentioned all this earlier in the thread! The point of seeking feedback through this build diary is simply to gain insight into other people's experiences, which in turn might spark off new ideas for this particular build - which has certainly been the case already. Plus, with the bass being a competition prize, I felt it right to involve the BC community in a more meaningful way than if the project was being self-funded. But in short, yeah... the buck definitely stops with Paul! Cheers also for the comments about a through-neck design. I was a little concerned myself that the 'heel' of bolt-on design might hamper the playability of the upper frets. I discussed it with Paul and he mentioned that the design of a bolt-on could account for this, but that ultimately a through-neck would most likely be the better option, which is what I'm now pretty much settled on. Anyway, thanks for the good advice - really appreciated!

I think they had it coming long before the recession - a failure to change with the times, like so many dinosaurs of the music biz. [i]But...[/i] that's not to say I won't miss HMV. I was more of an Our Price Records kid in my youth, but I graduated to HMV afterwards and continued buying vinyl from them from time to time. I've heard on the grapevine that they might be seeking a bail out from within the industry, as certain major labels are keen for them to keep trading in order to give their artists/products a more visible presence on the high street. We'll see. Personally, I wouldn't count any chickens and get spending those Christmas vouchers if you were (un)lucky enough to get any this year!

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1358241944' post='1935225']Smarty pants [/quote] Hehe! All nice and clicky now, cheers mate. [quote name='butlerk02' timestamp='1358187784' post='1934553']Seeing as it was my idea to get this thing going, can i be cheeky and provide the tracks for the next tune?[/quote] Fine by me. First come first served seems like a fair system. What does everyone else think?

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1358207178' post='1935051']Unless we are talking about radius in a purely practical sense and meaning the curvature, and not really the mathematical meaning of it. I'm not sure anymore, my brain is frazzled after today.[/quote] Hehe! I know the feeling This diagram should help. The radius refers to the degree of curvature you get from a circle drawn at that size - i.e. a 20" radius fretboard means that the curve of the 'board is taken from a circle with a 20" radius, hence a large-ish circle with a shallow curve. The smaller the radius, the steeper the curve and vice-versa.

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1358206354' post='1935025']Right I'll take that as a yes then - poll now up! Good luck to you all [/quote] Nice one! PS: might be an idea to list all the SoundCloud links separately beneath the poll (like Charic does with the monthly composition challanges), just so they're convenient to click on.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1358201713' post='1934909']Ah, never mind! If the through neck HAS to be made from mahogany, i would say go for that. Mahogany has a lovely rich bassy tone, and the through neck will let the high notes resonate well through the body.[/quote] Definitely! I'm veering strongly towards a through-neck made from mahogany (same material as the body) with wenge splices, which should give a great tone. I'm going to chew it over a little longer first - trying not to be hasty and enjoying reading about wood! (not something I admit to every day) - but that's looking like the winning combination. [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1358202156' post='1934923']I would actually say that is a VERY flat fretboard, and you might even struggle to notice any curve to it.[/quote] Good point. Do you play a Fender by any chance? I only ask because I used to own one that had a much smaller radius - must have been something like 10" or whatever. Played fine, but I switched to an Ibanez much later on that had a flatter board with a lower action and I much preferred it - suited my style of playing better and I just found it a bit 'faster' (but that could be the mojo talking ). But anyway, I'm happy with a flat board - I just need to compare a 20" radius to the basses I'm familiar with to make sure that's going to be right for me (can't say it's something I've ever really considered until now - I'm learning lots through this process!). PS: this is what's been decided for the fretboard - Makassar ebony. Looks bloomin' gorgeous!

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1358171142' post='1934143']Hey it was [url="http://basschat.co.uk/user/969-butlerk02/"]butlerk02[/url]'s idea, I've just got a big mouth [/quote] Oops! Cheers to Butler too. Good work guys

[b][size=5]Ok folks, I need your opinion on some material and design choices![/size][/b] 1) [b]Neck type:[/b] should I opt for a bolt-on neck, a glue-in neck or a through-neck? I'm currently veering towards a through-neck to help give the bass the dark/warm tone with plenty of sustain that I'm looking for. It'll also make the upper frets easier to reach than with a bolt-on (especially as this bass is a 28-fretter!). That said, a bolt-on neck would maybe give it more attack, and I guess a glue-in design is somewhere between the two. What do you think? 2) [b]Materials:[/b] the current choice is for a mahogany body, a wenge neck (spliced with either maple or mahogany) and a rosewood or ebony fretboard (either Indian ebony, solid black in colour, or Makassar ebony - slightly softer with black/brown striping). If I opt for a through-neck then it would need to made out of mahogany with wenge splices - rather than vice versa, as would be possible with a bolt-on or glue-in neck. Other details to be confirmed: - [b]Frets:[/b] jumbo for better sustain and tone. - [b]Headstock angle:[/b] 14 degrees (the steeper the angle, the more sharp/tight the tone - just learnt this from Paul! I never knew...). I'd like this bass to have a low/warm tone - not too bright - hence the recommended angle. - [b]Fretboard radius:[/b] 20" is the current suggestion. I'm going to check the basses I own (2 in total - very meagre by Basschat standards!) and compare. Having done some homework on the subject, 20" sounds about right to me. For anybody unfamiliar with fretboard radius, a larger radius = a flatter fretboard = a lower action, which is what I'm looking for (most basses seem to range from 17-22"). Thoughts/suggestions on any of the above would be very welcome! Cheers

I use [url="http://tuxguitar.herac.com.ar/"]Tuxguitar[/url]. It's free and they have a penguin with a guitar as their logo. What's not to like? I tried the demo of [url="http://www.guitar-pro.com/en/index.php"]GuitarPro[/url] (£50) and thought it was great - at least for my fairly simple needs. But I don't write notation enough to warrant paying for it... yet. [url="http://www.sibelius.com/home/index_flash.html"]Sibelius[/url] is what I always hear quoted as the being the favourite option among people who read/write on a regular basis. Maybe start out using freeware and migrate to a commercial package once it warrants the $pend?

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1358120151' post='1933597']That's how i know it will be a great bass. He obviously takes time to make sure it's right![/quote] Cheers Milty, I couldn't agree more! I think Paul's love of his craft speaks for itself. First time I saw his website I was blown away by his handiwork - very impressive and a great diversity of designs. Anyway thanks for the comments mate and feel free to post suggestions here whenever you like - I appreciate your input

[quote name='urb' timestamp='1358110127' post='1933362'] [b]'What Lies Beneath'[/b] [url="http://soundcloud.com/munkio/what-lies-beneath"]http://soundcloud.co...at-lies-beneath[/url] Hope you enjoy it - this is definitely the way I want to go now... more hopefully forthcoming soon[/quote] Wow Mike! That's a great track. It sounds like you've taken a very positive step off the beaten track towards the sort of sound we were discussing over Xmas. And it sounds like fairly uncharted territory to me, which is great! I really like this direction. It's dark and dubsteppy, and it has a jazzy flavour too. But not too much of either; you seem to be finding the right balance. Production-wise it's fantastic. Sounds very 'alive' through headphones with a nice, full-bodied range of frequencies from glitchy highs to subby lows. Some great panning and filtering in places too. Impressive stuff, mate Just about to start mine... I've got an alright idea for it, but probably too little time to do it justice. But meh, that's the story of my life! Hoping to get a first sketch of it down this week.

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1358160512' post='1933856']OK heads up all of you who are interested, this evening I will generate the Poll in the first post in the thread...[/quote] Nice one Si! I haven't had time to tinker with mine since I first uploaded it, so I'm happy for it to be entered as it stands: http://soundcloud.com/skol-mixes/second-chance-by-tacsi Well done for getting this whole mixing challenge rolling. It's early days, but I'm hoping this becomes a regular feature on BC. I've really enjoyed this first one

^ Cheers for the comments folks. I must admit I haven't thought far enough ahead to start on the fittings and electronics as yet - that's not me being lazy, I've just been obsessed with reading up on different wood choices at the moment ('tis a genuinely fascinating topic!). Speaking of which... as it stands, I'm thinking of a mahogany body, with perhaps a wenge/maple laminate neck and a fretboard that I'm still pondering (the shortlist is currently maple, ebony, rosewood or pau ferro. But other suggestions are welcome!). Paul has explained that the wood needs some time to aclimatise to his workshop, so once it's on order there'll be chance to start thinking about the rest of it