Skol303

I also have tinnitus, albeit fairly ‘mild’. Most of the time I don’t notice it - until I read a thread like this one! - but if I’m in a quiet room it’s a steady “eeeeeeeeeeee” at around 14kHz. I can hear it now. Dammit! There are apparently a number of possible causes. Ear damage resulting from prolonged high db exposure is the most common: it apparently kills of the little hairs in the ears that transmit signals to the brain, and so the brain sort of ‘turns up the gain control’ to compensate, which causes the ringing. Simple solution: wear ear plugs when around loud music and be careful when using headphones for listening (we always tend to turn them up too high). [quote name='project_c' timestamp='1462973972' post='3047440'] Cutting down on caffeine, getting more sleep and relaxation are all really good for easing tinnitus symptoms. [/quote] This is also good advice.

[quote name='paul h' timestamp='1462954882' post='3047154']To route the signal from the DAW/computer to a mixer/console, do you need an interface with loads of outputs? One per track? Or is there a clever or obvious solution that I'm missing?[/quote] Good question! The mixer that I used for this test is an Allen & Heath [url="http://www.allen-heath.com/ahproducts/zed-r16/"]ZED-R16[/url]. It’s an analogue desk that connects to a computer/DAW using a standard Firewire cable. Super easy; quite literally ‘plug and play’. It’s an amazing bit of kit at around £1600 brand new, although it can be picked up second-hand for £600 or so if you're patient (I’ve been eyeing recent eBay sales). Otherwise, I think the traditional route is to use an analogue-to-digital converter (A/D) and I assume some kind of summing box. Probably more costly once you add everything up, but it would give you access to pretty much any analogue desk, of which there are [i]many[/i] on the second-hand market. All I can say at this stage is that appears to be a gloriously slippery slope into a whole new realm of GAS [quote name='ras52' timestamp='1462957387' post='3047183'] I'll just throw this into the, ahem, mix: [b] Mix In The Box Or Take An SSL E Series For Free?[/b] [url="http://www.pro-tools-expert.com/home-page/2016/5/10/the-big-board-dilemma"]http://www.pro-tools...g-board-dilemma[/url] [/quote] Nice offer! But I'd pass on that... the running costs would likely require a second mortgage

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1462892952' post='3046729'] Yes I suspect you may be right... Well no matter, I shall continue to air my noodles until I am the last sad soul in the noodle bar at closing time, sobbing into my bowl... staff clearing up around me... reminiscing about the great looper debate of April 2016. [/quote] You won't be alone Rob... there'll be others of us alongside you. All bass players. Noodling simultaneously. What's the worst that could happen?

[quote name='NickD' timestamp='1462888592' post='3046658'] Simple! Q1 - Are my Wife & kids going to be disadvantaged in any way by the cost? If Q1 = no... go for it, life is short! [/quote] Ditto! [quote name='blue' timestamp='1462904186' post='3046870'] I own 9 basses. My justification, I gig all of them in rotation. They don't sit around gathering dust. Blue [/quote] Can't argue with that, Blue. If they don't get played, they might as well be sold to someone who WILL play them.

[quote name='paul h' timestamp='1462902311' post='3046853'] What do I win? [/quote] My utmost adulation for sussing it out! Good call

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1462880446' post='3046515']OK so what sort of small prize would encourage people to enter / vote? clip tuner maybe? set of feeler gauges or similar? [b]Candlelit dinner for two with me at a romantic retreat of your choosing?[/b][/quote] [i]Now[/i] we're talking! In all seriousness, I’m happy for anyone to offer up a prize. We’ve had people do so in the monthly Composition Challenge and it’s always gratefully received. However, past experience shows that prizes have very little - if any - influence on the number of entries and votes, unless the prize itself is fairly substantial. Clip-on tuners, strings, picks and the like aren't likely to whet appetites beyond the usual cadre of people who take part in these challenges. Sad as that is to say! But it's the nature of the beast. Most people on Basschat just aren't interested in making music - they come here for reasons of GAS and to have a rant in Off Topic. All perfectly fine, albeit a little perplexing to me personally.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1462881793' post='3046543']OK, thanks for the confirmation. Now try taking the 'summed' stereo out to a reel-to-reel deck, and see if the famous 'tape compression' does its magic..?[/quote] I’d love to! Only my friend whose desk I used doesn’t have a reel-to-reel tape deck. Otherwise that’d be a good thing to test. [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1462881793' post='3046543’]…is the slight difference worth the fuss and bother..?[/quote] Well that’s the thing… there really was no “fuss and bother” involved. Quite the opposite. I went into this looking for ways to improve the efficiency of my workflow - and very skeptical of the difference that using an analogue desk would make to the finished product (I already use a lot of ‘virtual analogue’ plug-ins to add “saturation and warmth”, etc). My mate has long championed the virtues of using a physical desk, so I decided to take up his offer and try it out. Mainly to shut him up I found it to be a lot more immediate and intuitive than I’d expected. Also - and this is perhaps a personal thing - I found it encouraged me to “use my ears” more than when mixing in the box. I could close my eyes and move the faders and channel EQs by hand, rather than having to constantly watch where I was looking on-screen. Less need for visual feedback, perhaps? I dunno. If you’d have asked me before this trial, I’d have poo-pooed the notion of it making much difference to the actual process of mixing. But surprisingly, it did. The only extra step was having to play and record the mixed track back in the DAW - rather than just immediately rendering it. A few added minutes, nothing more. I couldn’t notice any difference in the sound myself, but it’s interesting how people here did - and unanimously so (nobody voted for Track 1 being their favourite). Sure, this hasn’t been a robust and scientific test, but it’s given me much food for thought. And my mate is now banging on about analogue more than ever. But then every silver lining has its cloud, right?

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1462880754' post='3046522'] So, let's see if I understand this properly... All of the separate tracks have their respective levels set (presumably in the DAW...). These are then fed out as separate tracks to the i/p's of a console, with all the gains and faders set to 0db or such, and the o/p from the console is taken back into the DAW for transformation (rendering...) into a file. Is that something like right, or have I missed something important..? [/quote] Yep, that's exactly it! On track 2...[list] [*]The individual tracks in the DAW were sent to separate channels on the analogue desk (some set up a stereo pairs where necessary) [*]Everything on the desk was set to 'neutral' - all faders at 0db; nothing altered on any of the channel EQs. [*]Hit 'play' on the track and recorded the summed mix as audio back into the DAW. [*]The mix was then outputted from the DAW at the same 48kHz/24-bit resolution as Track 1 (the 'in the box' mix). Each track was then normalised to ensure consistency in the levels. [/list] No other magic or mojo involved

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1462876541' post='3046439']Come on, lad, spit it out..! Some of us have lives to live..![/quote] Ok, ok! So the grand reveal is… [i]*drumroll please*[/i][list] [*]The first track (T1) was summed/outputted digitally ‘in the box’ using my DAW. [*]The second track (T2) was summed[i]*[/i] ‘outside the box’ using an analogue mixer - and the resulting stereo track was then outputted digitally as normal. [/list] ...no other difference between the two: i.e. no changes to the EQ, compression or other dynamics. Just a different summing process. I’m currently experimenting with analogue summing and the results of this little test support what I’ve been reading elsewhere: that analogue summing tends to create a slightly larger ‘sound stage’ and adds a touch of warmth/depth to the finished product. Personally speaking, I was expecting the results of each process to be more noticeable. I really struggled to tell the difference myself, and because I knew which track was which I needed some ‘impartial ears’ to make a more objective judgement. So a big thanks to you all for doing just that! It’s interesting to note how the majority of you favoured track 2 - the analogue summing - even using some of the adjectives that are typically associated with analogue such as “warmer”, “more air”, “more glued”, “tighter”, “more defined”, etc. Amazing… you guys have very good ears! I’m currently thinking about switching my home set up to a hybrid system, part ITB/OTB, and this has proved to me that it may be worthwhile. I won’t be investing in an SSL desk any time soon But there are some [i]very[/i] affordable analogue mixers on the market (less than £100 second hand) that make stepping ‘outside the box’ very possible - and tempting. Hmmmm… Thanks again guys. —— [i]*For anyone coming to this fresh: ‘summing’ is when the individual tracks of a mix are added together (‘summed’) to create a single track.[/i]

This is [i]very [/i]interesting! I'm really tempted to spill the beans now... but I'm going to wait until later today, in case anyone else wants to quickly chip in. [size=2]I know, I'm just a big tease.[/size]

^ Cheers Doug It's a rough mix of a track I worked on last year (i.e. before any final EQ'ing, compression, etc). I'm more interested in knowing whether there is any audible difference [i]between[/i] the two versions... purely for my own curiosity, as the way in which each track has been outputted is quite different. To my ears they sound almost identical, which was surprising. I'll reveal why once the statistical sampling pool gets beyond a total of 1

I'm a mediocre bass player - and yet I manage to play an unlined fretless (with side dots) with a surprising degree of ease. It's really not as difficult as you might think. And it's much more expressive that fretted. Go for it!

[b][size=5]A fiendish little listening test for anyone interested...[/size][/b] Here are two snippets from the same track (mixed by yours truly): [url="http://soundcloud.com/skol-mixes/sets/cryptic-mix-test"][b]LINK TO CRYPTIC MIX TEST[/b][/url] One has been processed very differently to the other. [list] [*][b]Which version do you prefer - T1 or T2? [/b](and why) [*][b]Or do they both sound the same??[/b] [/list] Use the poll above and add comments below as you wish. I'll reveal all in due course (but don't go holding your breath, it's not [i]that[/i] exciting).

[b]A quick update to this thread...[/b] Here's a page of very useful sound tests and audio test tones for checking the performance of your home music set up: http://www.audiocheck.net/soundtestsaudiotesttones_index.php I've been repositioning stuff at home and am happy to report that my system now passes the LEDR test (for stereo imaging) quite nicely - yay! No money spent, just some time and patience involved getting everything in the right location. I've also discovered that my set up can reproduce bass frequencies down to 30Hz very comfortably - something that surprised me - and that my upper hearing frequency is between 15-16kHz. [i](And yes, I do have a large pile of washing up to attend to... but this is helping me avoid it. Speak to my wife, she appears to have a strong opinion on this matter).[/i] Try some of the tests out for yourself and share the results. Honestly, this is fun!!!

[color=#800000][size=5][b]May's Noodle Bar is now open![/b][/size][/color] [size=6][url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/284669-basschat-noodle-bar-may/"][b]GO HERE[/b][/url][/size]

[size=5][b]Welcome to the Basschat Noodle Bar™! [/b][/size] The rules are simple: [list=1] [*][b]Record yourself playing bass for up to 60 seconds[/b]. You can record whatever the heck you like: an original riff or lick; something from your band’s own repertoire; or a well-known piece you’re currently practicing. Doesn’t matter what. Just record something. [*][b]Make sure it’s bass only[/b]: no other instruments. FX and pedals are allowed, as are simple click tracks and metronomes. [*][b]Upload your recording to [url="https://soundcloud.com"]SoundCloud[/url][/b], YouTube or another music-sharing platform of your choice. Once you’re finished, post the link to your recording in this thread. Job done! [/list] Or in short: PRESS RECORD > PLAY BASS > PRESS STOP! [b][color=#800000][size=5]The deadline for entries is midnight on Tuesday May 31st.[/size][/color][/b]

Congratulations to SubsonicSimpleton! Another fine show. And well done to every other noodler I'll launch the next challenge sometime today in the Rec' forum.

[quote name='the boy' timestamp='1462313290' post='3042127'] Wow... Awesome advice.... I've been schooled. You learned me. Both of those sound awesome. I will check them out as I'm looking for something exactly like this. [/quote] Amplitude and iRig is a lot of fun... especially as there are various options for FX and rudimentary mixing. I used it to record the b-line for this version of Haitian Fight Song, some time ago now... [url="http://soundcloud.com/skollob/haitian-fight-song-youtube"]http://soundcloud.co...ht-song-youtube[/url] Also check out Dad3353's option for the USB jack [i](above)[/i]. I haven't tried it myself, but it looks considerably cheaper than the Rocksmith cable.

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1462277415' post='3041637'] i was considering doing this (space allowing) once i move house. did you get proper studio stands or just bog standard ones? i found i got a lot difference by decoupling from the desk with a sponge pad. [/quote] Hi Rob. The stands I have are metal with hollow posts, which I filled with shot filler - i.e. tiny metal pellets - to add extra weight. You can also use kiln-dried sand. You want the stands to be as heavy as possible (within reason) to reduce reverberation. I think mine weigh something like 15kg each with the filler.

Over the weekend I achieved something I've been meaning to do for [i]ages[/i]... and that's mount my monitors on a pair of sturdy floor stands, rather than having them sitting on my desk. WOW! WHAT A DIFFERENCE!! I'm gobsmacked. I knew it would be an improvement - friends and various forums telling me that it was a good idea - but I never expected it to make [i]such[/i] a difference. It really does sound like a new pair of speakers. The sound is much more clear and defined; the low end in particular has dramatically improved. Like I said, gobsmacked If you've ever thought about doing the same, my advice is [i]just do it! [/i]My own monitors are cheap'n'cheerful - certainly not high end - and yet they now sound fantastic. It's probably the single most effective thing I've ever done to improve the quality of my set up. That is all. As you were.

[quote name='elephantgrey' timestamp='1462115738' post='3040372'] My votes this month are for agwin, rikki and skol. [/quote] Cheers, I'm flattered! I've yet to vote myself... looking forward to having a listen.

^ Either of the above suggestions are great If you want something even more pocket-size, have a look at: [b][url="http://rocksmith.ubi.com/rocksmith/en-gb/products/"]Rocksmith Real Tone Cable[/url][/b] - it's intended for use with the Rocksmith video game, but it's basically a USB guitar lead that you can use to record into Audacity or pretty much any DAW software (USB on one end, standard 1/4" jack plug on the other). The quality isn't fantastic, but it's certainly 'good enough'. You can pick one up for £20 or so if you shop around. [b][url="http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/amplitubeios/"]Amplitube[/url] mobile App plus an [url="http://www.lightinthebox.com/audio-interface-amp-irig-system-guitar-effects-pedal-for-iphone-ipad_p4071355.html?currency=GBP&litb_from=paid_adwords_shopping&utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&adword_mt=&adword_ct=84187195634&adword_kw=&adword_pos=1o4&adword_pl=&adword_net=g&adword_tar=&adw_src_id=1810908567_301579154_21687113474_pla-78632005276&gclid=CPaYwYXkvcwCFRSeGwodN3UGYw"]iRig[/url] adaptor. [/b]You plug the adaptor into your phone's headphone socket; plug your headphones and 1/4" jack lead into the adaptor; launch the App you have you a mini amp sim and recording/mixing package in your pocket! Again, the sound quality won't win any awards but it's far from shabby. The adaptor costs less than a fiver and I think the App is around £10 last time I checked.

Video editing reminds me of Kutiman... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsBfj6khrG4

[i]*cough*[/i] Vangelis [i]*cough*[/i]

[color=#800000][b]VOTING IS UP![/b][/color] [b][size=6][url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/284196-april-noodle-bar-voting/"]Let battle commence...[/url][/size][/b] [b][size=6][size=4][/size][/size][/b]