gilmour

[quote name='AM1' post='468212' date='Apr 21 2009, 10:46 AM']I have seen Ampeg rigs being used by a few well-known bands in fairly large venues and the sound is unmistakeable, even with a bit of colouration from the PA.[/quote] [quote name='alexclaber' post='468229' date='Apr 21 2009, 11:07 AM']I really don't buy that. Yes the all-valve SVT and sealed 8x10" cab has a distinct sound but the rest of their gear varies hugely. I would suggest that if you see a rock band who have a nice fat rock bass sound happening and there's an Ampeg rig there then you attribute that to the rig when you could get that same sound from so many other rigs. Just like the hordes of guitarists out there believing that you can only get 'that' tone from a Marshall stack cranked up to 11. The power of marketing and subconsious self-persuasion... Alex[/quote] I'm inclined to agree with Alex on this. I do a lot of big gigs, and the supplied backline is nearly always an Ampeg (in fact the only exception I can remember is at the Jazz Cafe - An Ashdown ) The backline is always there for the stage monitoring and very rarely is that sound ever taken FOH, always a DI from the bass straight to the desk. IIRC once in the last 18 months have we Mic'd the cab, and the engineer said the sound wasn't usable as there wasn't enough clarity going to the PA. Occasionally the stage will act as a bass trap for the amps sound and throw out some low/sub frequency, but not enough to really influence the tone.

[quote name='crez5150' post='429057' date='Mar 9 2009, 08:46 AM']Didn't Trace Elliot do 3 x 10 version of this Idea?[/quote] I was thinking that - without the top speaker, but can't find a pic

THe only company I can think of that mass manufactured cabs with smaller speakers (more appropriate for mid range) was Trace Elliot. With their Bright Box. I have no idea whether or not they had any sort of crossover built in, and they weren't vertically aligned so not exactly what Bill was talking about. It's a shame that they are pretty rare, as it would be interesting to test them alongside a 1x15 or 2x15. I suspect the results would be superior to the traditional 2x10 and 1x15 combo.

I've just finished building a pair of O10.5's and spent last night using them, and again this morning playing with them together with my O15TB. So I thought I'd post some findings for those considering building/buying either of these cabs. [b]CAB SPECS[/b] [indent][b]O10.5[/b] Half size O10.5 option, standard width Loaded with Beta 10s 4 Piezo Straight array (ie. not cross fired) Single finished O10.5... [b]O15TB[/b] Tall Boy option, built exactly to spec. There's a build thread here: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11971&hl=o15"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11971&hl=o15[/url] or here [url="http://finnbass.com/showthread.php?t=1906"]http://finnbass.com/showthread.php?t=1906[/url] Eminence 3015lf Kappalite recommended 8" speaker Compression Driver (again recommended one) Finished O15TB... [/indent] [b]COMPARISON[/b] [b]Ease of Construction (wood work)[/b] [indent]I'm no woodworking expert, I've put up shelves and made Ikea flat packs, but this is the first time I've tried anything like this. [b]O15TB - 8/10[/b] This was the first cab I built and I found the wood work fairly straightforward. The tricky parts are making the midrange horn, and the overall size of the cab means you need quite a lot of working space, this size also means that it quite cumbersome to move around when clapming and drilling/countersinking holes etc. Overall though all very straightforward and the plans are great. [b]O10.5 - 8.5/10[/b] I was tempted to also give this an 8/10 but overall I found this build a little easier (I think in part that is down to me having a little more experience having already built one cab), there is also a real wealth of other experiences and build diaries online which prepared me for some of the problems. There are a few tricky moments, I found the hardest the making of the horn throat, and there's a fairly hair raising moment when cutting the front of this to the correct angle. Also as this is a much smaller cab it makes working with it much much easier, as you can move it around fairly effortlessly. Again overall a straightforward build, although I may have found it trickier with less experience. [/indent] For me there's a trade off here, the woodwork of the O15TB is very simple, however it's size makes it a bit trickier. On the other hand the O10.5 is a little more tricky with the wood work, but it's such a small box that the trickier parts are easier to address. Tricky O15 Horn... I was pleased with this [b]EASE OF CONSTRUCTION (wiring/electrics)[/b] Last time I did any soldering was at school, for a GCSE project I made a toy car, the lights were supposed to flash, they did for a short while, and then I dropped it just as I was handing it in - I am no expert. [indent][b]O15TB - 5/10[/b] I had to get help doing the electrics for this, I really didn't understand the crossover information. However prior to the build I didn't even know what a crossover was so that tells you about my starting point. I sought a lot of help from John @ Audio Components [url="http://www.audio-components.co.uk"]http://www.audio-components.co.uk[/url] who gave me a lot of his time and explained how crossovers work etc, then found me all the parts I needed. I also got a lot of help from my mums fella (an electrical engineer - he builds high end PC servers). [b]O10.5 - 8/10[/b] There is no crossover in the O10.5 (although there is an option for a Piezo filter, which I have omitted for the time being) therefore the electrics are much simpler, the only tricky part is the wiring of the Piezo array, which is more fiddly than anything, the plans are really clear here. I did bugger up some of the soldering so agin went to seem my mums fella, he said it was a couple of dry solder joints, that I couldn't be blamed for as my soldering Iron was broken and wasn't getting hot enough (he'd given it to me, cheeky bugger) anyway he resoldered it on no time at all. The other tricky (PITA) part of this was making the Piezo array. If you make it exactly as per the plans there are only mm clearance between the end of the array and the edge of the Cab, which worried me, so I had to shorten the end of the Piezos, by removing a section, then re-gluing on the ends. Then I filled and sanded all of the array to make it nice and flush, then I spray painted it black to make it look nice and neat. Then I dropped it Here's a pic of the bloody glue repair line Grrrr... [/indent] Overall if you have the first clue about how to wield a soldering Iron you shouldn't find either of these a hassle, if not then you'll probably be like me and need to seek a little advice, but there's a wealh of people (both online and in the real world) who are more than willing to help The O15 crossover... O10.5 wiring... [b]TONE / SOUND[/b] [indent] [b]O15TB - 10/10[/b] I find it difficult to imagine getting a better sound. The best way of describing it is 'more of everything' but not in an "I turned up all my EQs" way. Everything is very clear and crisp, with rich deep tones. Occasionally I find that the compression driver can be a bit bright for me, but because of the way the crossover works when you back the treble off on your amp/bass then the comp driver gets quieter. In terms of bass it's very very hard to get this cab to bottom out, even on a 5 string. [b]O10.5 - 8/10[/b] I built these to be used both for PA and Bass, although I'm imagining they will get used more for PA, hence the melded array. The tone is incredibly punchy, and crystal clear in the mids. Again I find it very bright, but this was always to be expected given the 4 Piezos. It doesn't go as deep as the O15TB (and you wouldn't expect it to) when pushed hard we made it bottom out on a low B. [/indent] Both cabs sound awesome to me when compared to commercial cabs, and you'll find the clarity of both is simply astonishing, I would happily gig with either. However the deep rich lows of the O15TB are always going to win for me. [b]VOLUME[/b] [indent] [b]O15TB - 8/10[/b] I always thought this was a very loud cab, easily keeping up (more often out doing) commercial 4x10s 1x15s and other common variants (like those Peaveys with 2X6 & 1X15). At volume the bass is all encompassing and will fill a room. I've found that this cab always sounds louder in a bigger room, even without changing the volume settings, I don't know why, or if this is just a perceived thing, I'm sure someone who knows the science of this better than me can explain. [b]O10.5 - 9/10[/b] The reason I'v said that I always thought (past tense) that the O15TB was loud was because I simply can't get over just how loud the O10.5 is. A small 1x10 cab has no right whatsoever being as loud as this, the sensitivity is incredible. I've only used in the home, and not in a gig situation yet so I'm not in a position to comment completely but WTF everyone said they were loud, I'm just blown away. Again I'm sure in part that this is down to where this cab is strongest (in the mid range frequencies) and us hearing them. Two of these will easily keep up with commercially available 4x10's 1x15's etc. The only reason this isn't a 10/10 is because apparently the DRs are louder! [/indent] Overall I'm astonished by the volume of the O10.5's and TBH a little worried. one O10.5 kept up with the O15TB. When I tried all three cabs together (which was ridiculous) it was a struggle to hear the O15TB over the two O10.5's. I feel like I need to go back and check all my nuts etc are tightened properly, and there are no air leaks. Both Cabs together... [b]TRANSPORT[/b] [indent] [b]O15TB - 7/10[/b] For a big cab it's very easy to get around, the thin ply with clever bracing, and the Neodynium Woofer makes this a very light cab for it's size, and the tall thin profile makes it good for getting through doorways. Although the height does mean when you're carrying it you run the risk of bruised shins. I may have been able to avoid this by positioning my handles lower down. You could also do the Dave Perry Mod and add casters on the back. [b]O10.5 - 9/10[/b] It's the same width as the O15TB, but a fraction of the height (14.5 inches, verses 39 inches!) SO it' massively more portable. It's heavier than I thought it would be, but I guess there's a lot more wood in a box this size than you'd expect (with the horn plates and braces) Also another builder commented on how mine (unloaded an unfinished) were heavier than his (completed and loaded with neo's). I used the Beta drivers rather than the Neo ones. So if you wanted to save weight use better wood, and Neo Drivers. All this said, it's still an easy one hand lift [/indent] [b]COST[/b] [indent] [b]O15TB - £350 approx.[/b] [b]O10.5 - £110 aprox. (per cab) [/b] (i had lot's of bits left over and lying around, so you may want to add another £20 ish per cab) [/indent] [b]OVERALL[/b] As above I'm astonished by the sensitivity and the output of the little O10.5 and can see myself using this a lot for band practices, and gigs with my double bass. However, I wouldn't trade my O15TB for anything else, I think for the O10.5 to truly compete with it you'd need to add a sub. IMHO there just isn't a better singe box option for bass available. All the clever crossovers etc. in the O15TB just give you the most awesome full deep, clear tone. It won't be to everyone's taste, if you're used to some ropey Ampeg 8x10 grumbling away at the back of the stage then the crystal clear tones of either of these amps really won't be for you. I find these cabs really good for teaching, as the sensitivity can reveal things about people playing that you may not otherwise hear. All in all I'm a very happy boy Now onto the T39!..... [i]PS my amp goes down to two ohms - the volume of all three together - ridiculous - I will never, ever need that much volume.[/i]

Looking really good, nice one. Where did you manage to source that CD Horn in the UK? I couldn't find one. Wait until you here it too [quote name='Al Heeley' post='386906' date='Jan 20 2009, 10:53 PM']I'm intrigued - not seen anything like that before. Educate me oh master[/quote] There's a lot of info on my [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11971&hl=omni+15"]build diary[/url], and they sound awesome never been happier.

[quote name='Spoombung' post='384387' date='Jan 18 2009, 09:32 PM']I'm wondering whether I can squeeze a small pick up in the middle of the bass before the knee curve starts. I'll have to do some research. Actually thinking about what pickups to use is starting to aggravate me a bit. Why on earth is the nothing like the Wal pickup around? Juicy depth and hi-fi clarity.[/quote] If you're looking for scope for more tones from what I've heard I'd agree with Red's suggestion about an ACG. Alternativley why not try to do something in the bridge? A Piezo in combination with the Bridge pickup, that would give you a broader range of tones, and wouldn't affect the aesthetic of the bass? A [url="http://www.lightwave-systems.com/lightwavepickup/LightWavePickup.htm"]lightwave system[/url]? Although they do make the bridge look really chunky or even a combined [url="http://www.graphtech.com/products.html?SubCategoryID=18"]Piezo/Midi system[/url]

For £600 you could get yourself a Yamaha TRB brand new. Or pick one up second hand for half that. That will give you a huge array of sounds, and give you a big chunk of change too

This seems to have spawned an unintended 'pay to play' debate, for which I feel partially responsible. I've worked with Gavin (at Plug n Play) a lot and recommended that he post here as he's often on the lookout for Bass players for the WW scheme. I don't work on the WW scheme (and have nothing to gain from posting this) but have meet several of the participants and seen several of their bands, all of those I've spoken to have been very happy with he programme and often carry on being a band after the programme is finished. There is a fee attached to taking part, but this isn't paying to play. This covers a series of rehearsals, all of which are supported and mentored. It will also cover adhoc instruemnt tuition, and help with putting bands together, finding like minded players, and helping to find you band members (hence can see from Gavin's posts here, and calls to local music teachers and music shops seeking bass players). In the end I know that Gavin played bass for one of the bands. It's not aimed at regular players, but instead at older players who are new to the instrument, haven't played in a band before, or lapsed and wanting to start playing again. All in all I think £95 represents very good value, given that it's not just rehearsal space, or pay to play, but covers all of the tuition, networking etc. And just happens to have a gig at the end. I could talk about this for hours, but will probably shut up now. I'm happy to endorsee the scheme and the quality of the work that Gavin and the Team at Plug'n'Play. Also I'm sorry for any unintended debate this created. But [b] would definitely encourage those of you out there who might be an older player who hasn't played in a band before [/b](or for a while) [b] to get involved.[/b]

Go see Jakebass for a couple of lessons - he'll sort you out.

BFM Omni 15 - 1x15", 1x8", 1x2" - full passive crossover, simply aweome. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11971&st=0"]Here's my build diary[/url]

[quote name='MuseMatt' post='273589' date='Aug 31 2008, 11:02 AM']If you grab your bass near the 1st fret, you can get a (realy near or) same amount of stretch with your hand around.[/quote] Sorry but I don't think that's true, it will still limit your movement, irrespective of what position you are playing in. [quote name='MuseMatt' post='273589' date='Aug 31 2008, 11:02 AM']As far as I know an even more important thing to mind is the placement of your elbow! This might sound silly but people tend to put their elbow inside near their body where they should extend it more to match a less angled line (straight would be overworking it) with their wrists, and then you will also notice you can reach more frets. Usually my thumb is opposite to my ring- or middlefinger.[/quote] I do agree about elbow positioning though

[quote name='joe_bass' post='272282' date='Aug 29 2008, 09:37 AM']Yeah I can appreciate he didn't quite have Zender's vibe but the way sovme people speak you would have thought they replaced Stuart with Mark Hoppus lol. Interesting about the keyboard bass, I'll have a hunt on Google when it hopefully gets quiet here later (work.)[/quote] Yup, SZ was always going to be a hard act to follow, he was loved by the fans for more than just his playing. I've just dug out the interview, fortunatley I'd been working on a transcription from the magazine so it was at the top of my pile (hence the thought being on the forefront of my mind). The interview is in Bassist Magazine, Summer 1999, it has a picture of Flea on the Front. To paraphrase Nick Fyffe him... [quote name='Nick Fyffe in Bassist Magazine' date='Summer 1999']"I recorded seven tracks, four of which were on the album...The rest of the album is keyboard bass, which is the sound they were going for..."[/quote]

Is it still ok at lower volumes? If so I'd imagine that it's ok just distorted from being turned up too high (the low notes will usually be the first to distort), you can try and EQ out the distortion by taking out the lows, and maybe low mids, o just turn the volume down. Youi should try to avoid running it distorting all the time as that's where it could get damaged. To compensate for the volume there's loads of stuff here about amp placement that makes a big difference.

[quote name='joe_bass' post='272260' date='Aug 29 2008, 09:18 AM']Yeah same here, I know a few people who lost interest after Zender left. Don't see what was wrong with Nick Fyffe at all though, for example Canned Heat has some great lines in it, fit the song perfectly IMO.[/quote] Nick Fyfee was a decent bass player, but didn't have Zender's flare or imagination. Most of the bass on Synkronized is keyboard bass anyway, he joined the band when the album was nearly complete, I think Canned Heat is one of those lines, I have an interview with Nick Fyfee somewhere where he talks about it.

Can anyone reccomend a good book on modes, with some practice and exercises in it?

[quote name='SteveK' post='256812' date='Aug 6 2008, 11:36 PM']I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with most of the posts here: It [i]will[/i] restrict your future progress. If you're serious about playing bass, then you should, as you say, "nip it in the bud". Gripping the neck with the thumb over the top [i]is[/i] bad technique. By gripping the neck you are severely restricting movement and the span of your fingers. Yes, You may find that you have to have your bass slung a bit higher in order to achieve this comfortably. If you're [i]not[/i] so serious, and are happy playing roots and fifths, then, as you were Steve[/quote] +1 on all SteveK's comments. I'm really shocked that some of the earlier posts in this thread advocate having the thumb over the top. It's a poor show to do this and a habit that you should try to break as quickly as possible. It may feel more 'natural' to hook your thumb over the top, but nothing about bass playing is inherently 'natural'. By hanging your thumb over the top it forces your fingers to bunch together and limits your movement across the fretboard, when your thumb is in the centre of the neck it allows your fingers to open out (like a blossoming flower, what a lovely metaphor) giving you easier access to notes. Although it seems like more work now once it feels more 'natural' it will mean you can play more complex parts with a lot less effort. As for muting you have your thumb and two spare fingers on your right hand, and unless your playing chords three spare fingers on your left hand

My Cab, a BFM O15TB ([url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11971&hl=o15tb&st=0"]Build Diary[/url]) has a passive crossover built into it. Since gigging it I've noticed a massive differnece when using effects. The mids and highs are much more 'affected' than the lows, so the Sub just carries on rumbling. The effect is much more obvious whilst still retaining the depth and punch of the low notes. You may well find that just using a crossover gives a similar effect, provided, as Cheddatom has poited out, that you have cabs that are right for the job. I'm sure it won't be as effective as using an active crossover and only 'effecting' part of the signal, but could be a much simpler solution.

Unless you've spent a while working on special 'no drums' arrangements I'd be very hesitant about playing the gig. You'll probably be better off finding a good dep for the night, if they are all covers it shouldn't be much of a problem for a drummer, especially if you can squeeze in a rehersal first. I see you're near me in Newbury, if you want some numbers for drum deps. drop me a PM.

[quote name='stingrayfan' post='250506' date='Jul 29 2008, 03:34 PM']You might want to look at [url="http://www.earthterminal.co.uk/"]Earth Terminal [/url]near Farnham. It's in an oast house in the middle of the countryside but near Jct 5 of the M3 (Odiham). Some famous songs have been recorded there. Only ever rehearsed there but it had a nice feeling about the place.[/quote] I've been there once to have a look for recording purposes, lovely space, but the sound is dictated by the live room. I like Plug'n'Play in Reading www.plugnplay.tv

I've also often mulled over doing something similar. TBH I came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth the cost and effort. For samller gigs with no PA support two amps just seems way to excessive. For gigs with PA support just take two DI's (or one DI and Mic the Amp) pre and post effects. After all in this situation the rig is only there to provide you with on stage monitoring. The old Incubus bass player did something similar though: [quote name='from WIKIPEDIA']For his career with Incubus he used Eden Amplification products. With his somewhat complicated setup, he would divide his sound 6 ways. Firstly, he would carry a clean signal and a 'dirty' signal. Each of these signals would further be separated 3 ways into low frequencies, low mids, and high mid frequencies. Usually Eden WT 100 preamps and WT 1000 power amps were employed. This results in two tri-amped signals, one clean and one with effects. Other gear in his setup included, but not limited to, were a Demeter Tube Compressor, a DBX 120 XP Sub-harmonic synthesizer, a Tech 21 Sansamp PSA-1, a custom switcher/router, a Boss PH-2 Super Phaser pedal, a MXR Phase 90 pedal, and an Electro-Harmonix Big Muff pedal. His use of effects seemed to decrease throughout his time with Incubus. He also used custom designed monitors powered by an Eden WT 80 poweramp. He has been quoted as saying [i]"Everyone makes fun of how huge my rig is until they actually hear it. My tone makes people cry[/i]!"[/quote] But I guess he had other people to lug it around and set it up for him, and was playing some HUGE venues (with PA support )

[quote name='alexclaber' post='265559' date='Aug 19 2008, 02:52 PM']Funk - Tear The Roof Off (Parliament best of)[/quote] Exactly my suggestion, every bassist should have some Parliment They're playing at Bestival this year and I can't get a ticket Also for Funk I'd also add - The Meters, completely different thing to Parliment but sill funky as hell. For Drum n bass I wouldn't look any further than Ronnie SIze & Reprazent's first album. I think that they too are playing a Bestival and I still can't get a ticket!

I teach bass, and I live in Reading. Have a butchers at my website and give me a bell if you're interested [url="http://www.gilmourvisualnoise.co.uk"]www.gilmourvisualnoise.co.uk[/url]