gilmour

Just in case anyone is interested, last night I did my first gig with the O15. And what a difference. It was a small Pub/Club gig (in a Slug and Lettuce about 200-250 people ish) so the PA was vox, horns, keys, percussion but anymore would have been driving it a little to hard. So the bass was all down to me. The Sound was fantastic, I was able to really crank the amp. What was great was that despite not going through the PA I still had plenty of sub. In fact at poitn it was almost too much - there is one track where for the chorus I whack the bass bosst on my pre up full, however with the BFM it's much more sensitive to the changes so when I first whacked it up full - way way too much. As you'd expect the clarity 'onstage' was much clearer also and I could really hear the subtleties in my playing, dead notes etc. Infact where previously when I wasn't playing i'd just leave the bass hanging around my neck I was having to be much more concious abotut turning the volume down, or mutting using my tuner, as any little sounds really stood out. At war volume it does 'grunt' a little more, but less than a comparable 6x10, and infact just enough to get rid of a little bit of my relentlessly modern sound which has been worrying me a little of late, so even the grunt was a bonus. I had more than one comment after the gig on how good the bass sounded, from band and punters. As I'd said in my proper review I'm dreading the next dep gig I've got where a backline is supplied, and now having used this thing in a gig settign I realy realy am, I don't know how I'm going to go back to that muffled lack of clarity I'd pick this over an Ampeg every day of the week.

I've had a similar problem of late (used to use Trace, now use Eden) - Try setting your EQ's higher, and stand further away from the cab. If possible raise the cab to ear level. The higher end comming out of 15s is very directional so people standing about 10' in front of it will hear it much more clearly than if you are standing right over it,(which is unfortunaley the case in most gigging situations). IIRC the Ashdowns colour the sound a lot, meaning that they are EQing a lot immediatley, which the warwick probably doesn't do as much.

[quote name='joegarcia' post='148420' date='Feb 28 2008, 02:34 PM']Recording setup last week: [attachment=6036:rec_bass...p_resize.jpg] Sunn 1200s and TLA compressor and Ampeg V4 through 2x Aguilar GS412 cabs. Massive thanks to G-Bitch for the V4. Sounded amazing. My pedal board split my signal 1 or 2 octaves up, through a separate fx chain and into then into this: [attachment=6037:rec_guitar_resize.jpg] Or a Twin depending on the song.[/quote] Joe, Was the room ambient mic'd as well? I'm just trying to work out why you'd want such a massive rig for recording when the Mic is only on one speaker? I can understand with your second setup - becuse there are mics on 3 of the speakers (by the looks of it all different mics) bit of a monster that rig though ^^

The Warwick stuff is decent, and IMHO much much beter than the Asdown kit. The Peavey stuff is fine, but as mentioned above tone of the heads isn't great, but I won;t have a bad word said about the cabs, in terms of value there is no better and there are always bargains to be had on second hand Peavey Cabs, I've had (and gigged regularly) a Peavey BW115 for 13 years now, and I bought it second hand I'll probably be selling it soon, but don't know if I can bear to part with it! EDIT: There's a peavey 4x10 here... [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=12211"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=12211[/url] Or a BFM O10 here [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=12211"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=12211[/url] Paul is giving this away at this price, and you won;t get a better sounding or lighter cab for that money, not to mention how much louder it is than other 2x10's (much louder)

Have you considered second hand - you could pick up a bloody good Trace Elliot rig for way less than £600 - that will blow an Ashdown rig out of the water. Ferrets right, you are gonna struggle to get a Neo rig with that money, even second hand Neo Cabs fetch a premium.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='143190' date='Feb 19 2008, 04:55 PM']I concur. Anyway it isn't discomfort, it's exercise! Alex[/quote] Hehe being a musician isn't about theory, technique and talent, it's about carrying heavy balck boxes to and from horrendously ubnderpowered hatchbacks I understand that the O15 isn't fully horn loaded, but even that small amount makes a noticeable difference. I think If it was it would be so big I'd have to consider a new car !

[quote name='woolleydick' post='142983' date='Feb 19 2008, 12:17 PM']I know this is but one aspect of cabinet performance, but who do you think makes the most efficient cabinets? I need something small light and loud - yes so does everyone else![/quote] I was reading a book on cab design the other day and the author points out that in direct radiators many speakers are only working at 1% efficency, by horn loading you can get that up to 80% efficency, but you'd need a 70 foot long horn !

[quote name='alexclaber' post='143044' date='Feb 19 2008, 01:40 PM']The question for each bassist to consider is how much am I willing to give up my lows to get a small yet loud rig? My response is that I'm not terribly willing, I'd rather we played more quietly, it makes everything sound better anyway![/quote] I couldn't agree more Alex, at the end of the day it's about sound and tone, and I'd rather sound good for a whole gig and go through 5 mins of dicomfort loading and unloading equipment. That said as Bill points out Horn loading means you need less speakers, therefore save a lot of weight, so it's really just a size issue - and having a big amp is cool [quote name='tauzero' post='143106' date='Feb 19 2008, 03:15 PM']Wouldn't that become less of an issue if moulded cabs were used rather than wooden ones? Are there any implications of the horn-loaded design that would preclude using moulded cabs?[/quote] hmm interesting point, I was wondering why cabs are wooden, does it have sound benfits, surely you could make moulded fibre glass cabs (many cars have them) at a fraction of the weight and as Tauzero points out could well reduce manufacture costs in the long run.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='142294' date='Feb 18 2008, 09:17 AM']That's where a midrange driver instead of horn would make more sense. Unfortunately it costs a lot more to add a decent mid than it does to use a generic horn tweeter so very few manufacturers do the right thing. Alex[/quote] Definatley, I'd probably go with an 8" rather than a 10 if it's the ids that aren;t clear enough. I think I'm right in saying that to avoid comb filtering if you have cabs with mixed speaker sizes you need to use a crossover? Now I have a cab with a crossover I have no Idea how I managed without

Sorry for the string of comprehensive answers, but I guess you can see that building this has taken over my life for the last few weeks! lol And hopefully it'll save you guys trawling the net for these links I'm off now, I got an O10.5 to build...

[quote name='bassman2790' post='141423' date='Feb 15 2008, 11:01 PM']I play in a LOUD rock band and currently play through Marshall 4x10 and 1x15 cabinets. I have purchased the plans for the Full Range Omni 15 like yours. Do you think: [list=1] [*]It would be suitable for the music I play? [*]I could manage without the HF driver? [/list][/quote] I don't play in a rock band these days, but I have used this to replace my Trace 4x10 and Peavey 1x15. The sensitivity and volume of the cab is amazing, my head isn't the loudest in the world, and I've had no trouble keeping up with my band - and there's 11 of us! There is a builder on the BFM site who used a single Omni15TB to replace this rig As you can see his amp section is a little more full on than mine You can see his thread here: [url="http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4311"]http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4311[/url] I think it would sound fine without the comp horn, you really don't need it unlees you do a lot of slap or top end work, I could probably have gotten away without one. Finnbass has built the lowboy version without the comp horn, so you might want to ask him. Rob

[quote name='OldGit' post='141386' date='Feb 15 2008, 09:51 PM']Sounds like a great project. Very satisfying. Get a set of these [url="http://www.bandland.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2580"]Peavey Pop-out Casters[/url] They are great 'cos you can pop them out to stand on the stage or another cab (or to go in your boot). They stay in when you need them too and the sockets have a lower profile than cab feet ..[/quote] Hmmm, interesting.... I may well, that said it;s not heavy, just quite big. [quote name='nedsbeds' post='141413' date='Feb 15 2008, 10:40 PM']That looks great matey. Well done [/quote] Thanks Nick, and thanks again for your help soucring parts

[quote name='El_JimBob' post='141377' date='Feb 15 2008, 09:35 PM']Hope you don't mind me butting in here, but what impedance does a Omni15 Tallboy end up coming out at? This build diary has had me intrigued from the get go, and i quite fancy having a try myself, but i always prefer the flexibility of two 8ohm cabs.... Congrats on the build tho....[/quote] This is an 8 ohm Cab - but you'd really have to be going some to need two of them I've yet to build an Omni 10 - so don;t really know how they compare.

[quote name='thinman' post='141335' date='Feb 15 2008, 08:02 PM']I've got Omni 10 and Omni 15TB plans and I was set on the Omni10, or a pair of 10.5s but I'm no longer sure given your verdict. If you don't mind me asking what was the final cost given you built the "full spec" version? I priced up the Omni10 at about £200 using 4 piezos and Deltalite 2510 drivers. I note in the Omni15 plans that the compression driver tweeter is optional for a bass cab so that would reduce the driver cost and the crossover is simplified too if it was omitted. There's also the option of adding piezo tweeters which probably keep things simpler and cheaper for a bass cab.[/quote] Hi Thinman, I haven't worked out the final cost, but I'd etmiate between £350 - £400 (including postage and sundries) I wasn;t very smart with what I bought, buying too much of quite a few things, and also ordering from the same compnies tewice and thus paying double the postage , but I have got a lot of bits left over, screws, glues, bolts, carpet, wood, and of course tools, If I was doing this again and planned what I was buying a little smarter it would cost quite a bit less. I'm able to use all my left over parts to buid an O10.5 and all i've had to buy is a driver and cab fixings (cost about £40). If you were to omit the compression driver that would be a big saving, about £20 for the driver, £10 for the horn, and about £25 of crossover parts. Omiting the horn will make the electronics a lot simpler and considerably cheaper, I think there are 5 coils if you build the full range, but only 2 when you omit the horn (the coils vary from £5 - £25) Hope that helps - at some point I'll work out exactly how much this cost me. Rob

If you've got the time and patience, go for a BFM Omni 15 - without doubt the best fullrange cab I've ever used. Deep deep bass, but with great punch and clarity (and it's loud to!) My build thread is here [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11971"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=11971[/url] and a full review here [url="http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5162"]http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5162[/url] Rob

[quote name='PaulMartin' post='141059' date='Feb 15 2008, 02:07 PM']It certainly is. After reading this thread I've got a bad case of BFM GAS. I'm thinking of making a sub for my Omni10.5s. That would make a monster rig.[/quote] Mmm, tasty, I bet that'll be a HUGE sound, I was reading about that set up somewhere the other day, but I can;t find the thread (might have been at Finnbass)

[quote name='alexclaber' post='140422' date='Feb 14 2008, 04:16 PM']I'm still in shock at how incredibly light an Kappalite 3015LF is out of the box! The height thing makes even more of a difference with 15" speakers as if you don't have a separate midrange speaker the upper midrange output becomes very directional, so although a 15" cab might be making a great sound if you put your head on the floor it won't be so clear when you're vertical. My DIY cab will have the bottom of the 15" about 10" off the ground and then the 6" mid above the 15" (offset to minimise baffle step issues). Alex[/quote] Yeah it weighs nothing, I think my 8" midrange driver was heavier! Interesting to see that you're moving your woofer off of the floor. I did a gig shortly before christmas with my 1x15 and the support band was using my backline he complained that he couldn't here anything he was playing. He'd cranked the amp up so loud that it wasn't in the PA mix at all (200 capacity venue - 2k PA), but was still drowning everything else out, yet he still couldn't hear it, sound ehhh? My soloution was to stick some music books under the front of the cab so it was at a slight angle pointing towards me, it was fine. I doubt Russ will have this problem, that 2x15 looks sweet, and should be really audible - partially because of speakers being near ear level, and partially because it's HUGE

[quote name='Bigwan' post='140597' date='Feb 14 2008, 07:44 PM']You still want more?! I hear it can be quite an addictive hobby this old cab building...[/quote] hehe - I really don't need anything more than this cab, I just fancy the portable O10.5 - think it will be handy for smaller gigs, and use with my upright. That's just an excuse, it is an addictice thng, and I'm hooked! [quote name='Hamster' post='140717' date='Feb 14 2008, 11:27 PM']Nice job I have the plans to build a couple of Bill's designs - but woodwork is my achilles heel! Hamster[/quote] Before this the only woodwork I'd done was putting up shelves and simple DIY, if you follow the plans there really aren't many ways to go wrong, worst comes to the worst you use a bit more wood up.

Hi Alex (and Merton), Unfortunatley I don't own any scales (I'll try to lay my hands on some 'cause a few people have asked), but I can tell you that it is massivley lighter than a comparble sized 6x10 (IMHO it smacks an Ampeg 6x10 in every imaginable way - sound, portability, volume, looks, weight - you can tell I don't really like those cabs). It's also lighter than my peavey 1x15, it's no strain at all to lift it, but I put the handles a little to high so it keeps hitting my shins! I think the crossover coils are one of the heaviest parts of the cab, they weigh more than the 15" (I see your using the same one in your build) but there's no way around that. Woodwise I just used 12mm Birch Ply from B&Q (in Slough), it was the cheapest and easiest to source (£20ish for 4 x 8 sheet), however I have since found out that Arnold Laver near me (in Reading) has Baltic Birch for £30 a sheet, which is cheap. But would still have been £20 more (I needed 2 sheets) and they wouldn't deliver for a small order (despite only being 2 mins away) B&Q cut on site, so I could fit it in the car, but don't expect massivley accurate cuts. As Bill says in the plans if you carpet there's no need to use Baltic Birch, but you should use it if you are going to paint. If you're wanting ultra lightweight probably best to carpet the cab rather than paint so that you can use a lighter wood (spruce ply maybe, I think this is what I'll use for my next build) the carpet doesn't cost much more than the paint, although some find the carpeting tricky I found it really straigtforward, and enjoyable. Hope this helps, I'm really keen to see how your build(s) pans out.

Interesting comments about the LMK v's the GK I think sometimes we can get to hung up on portability and forget about sound. I've always liked the sound of 15's, probably one of the things with the 2 x15 is the fact that it just brings one of the speakers closer to ear level, which I always found a problem when using a 1 x15. But the thought of a full weight 2 x 15 is not one that fills me with joy, Alex is probably right we may well see more 15's now they can be made so light.

Used this last night at band practice and ahd a chance to try it out at gig volume. Without doubt it's the best sounding cab I've ever used. As all BFM builders will tell you it is noticeably louder, I had the volume at about two thirds of what it would normally be. As I thought would probably be the case, the slight hiss on the tweeter really was no issue at all, once you're in that environment you can't hear it, there is so much ambient nosie from everything else, in fact I feel silly having even mentioned it. The big advantage of this cab was that often I find you have the choice between either deep bass or clear mids and definition, often finding that if you want a really fat bass sound you loose clarity and definition with some of the more subtle parts of your playing. Often I found mysefl 'over EQing' to try and compensate for this and further muddying my sound. With this you have both, the deep low notes were really fat and subby, yet when I filled, played dead notes etc these were not lost and sat just as clearly in the mix. I set my EQ fairly flat, with the treble backed off slightly, and the bass boosted a little, sweet tonal heaven:) One other thing of note that I wasn't expecting was how much my pedals come to life with this, the effects were just so much more transparent and audible, a lot of the 'effect' seemed to come from the midrange speaker, with the 15' holding down the low end, meaning that (as is sometimes the case) you don;t loose the bass or volume when you switch on your effects. Especially my Envelope filter, If my band mates hadn't insisted I'd probably have left it turned on all night. As I'd mentioned above the band is a big 11 piece group so can be tricky picking yourself out, but with this rig, mmmmm ... ..simply awesome and I made it !

There is some hiss whether I have the bass plugged in or not, like I say it's not really bad, and I appreciat that as this cab is much more sensitive I'll now hear these things. I've got practice tonight so I'll see how it sounds then, if it bothers me then I guess I'll install the LPad, I've already got one, it was only £5ish I bought it when ordering some other bits. Can't wait to crank this up full volume though

[quote name='Mums fella' post='138765' date='Feb 12 2008, 11:50 AM']Hello dude. Glad the cab's causing glee! That hissing is the sound of excited electrons rushing through your pre-amp. You can hear them now because you have a really efficient HF unit. - Larry[/quote] Just thinking about this, do you mean the pre amp on my bass, or in my amp? or both? I was thinking it would be really interesting to see how this sounds with a passive bass, but all mine have active pre's and active pups. I might just ask you this question when I see you next, seems odd asking you on a forum, yet I continue to type...

[quote name='Mums fella' post='138765' date='Feb 12 2008, 11:50 AM']Hello dude. Glad the cab's causing glee! That hissing is the sound of excited electrons rushing through your pre-amp. You can hear them now because you have a really efficient HF unit. - Larry[/quote] Hehe, forgot you were reading this, thanks Larry, but credit where it's due, if it weren't for you I'd still be making the crossover! like I say the hiss dissapears the minute you move slightly to either side or more than a couple of feet from the amp, I was just nit picking really [quote name='chenzo_1' post='138917' date='Feb 12 2008, 03:22 PM']what can i say about this...one word..........Jealous!!!! Looks and sure it sounds amazing!!! Very nice work!![/quote] Thanks Vince, when you;re around you should drop by and have a Blast, you can hear me use it in anger when we play up your way at the Yardbird, 26 April I think [quote name='Merton' post='138784' date='Feb 12 2008, 12:26 PM']Gilmour, that looks great. You have really made me catch the BFM bug! Now trying to decide between an Omni 15 Fullrange or a Tallboy like yours... I have the 15" woofer already and I want to build something!! Don't hold yer breath tho, it won't happen til the summer, plus I have a P-bass projec tot play with at some point.[/quote] Go for it, I've enjoyed this so much I've already ot the parts for my next build, I really don;t need another speaker cab, but it so enjoyable, and as Larry pointed out to me, making a cab is great because they always work, and always sound good The Tallboy is fullrange, it's a different shape to take up less floorspace, and also to bring the drivers closer to your ear level, both pluses in my book, plus it fits perfectly into the boot of a chrysler PT cruiser ! Rob

If I were you I wouldn't choose a driver purely because it's cheaper, after all you have to live and listen with that decision. there's a thread on Bills forum about this at, [url="http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5061"]http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5061[/url]