Tech21NYC

There is no easy answer. Usually with a passive ABY it should work. If the ABY is buffered it probably won't. I've used an old Whirlwind ABY like this and it works fine with pedals. With rack mount units not so much. It seems there is some bleed through. You might be better off with a small passive mixer.

[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1499794584' post='3333683']
People of Tech21NYC, could you verify whether the ABY box method would work?
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If by ABY box you mean running it in reverse, sending the outputs of the preamp to the inputs of the ABY and using the i/o ports as the output it can work. It will depend on the ABY box though.

[quote name='Jack' timestamp='1499795254' post='3333691']
Whilst I can't defend Wolverine's stupid comment, it does seem as though 100% of the bassists on here have said they would have massively preferred a switch to an internal jumper. I know I would.

You're right, you designed it for Geddy and not for us, but still, we're the ones who'll be buying it. Or not.
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For those that wish to reconfigure the product they can contact our support staff for instructions. [email="[email protected]"][email protected][/email]
[quote name='Wolverinebass' timestamp='1499796865' post='3333704']
Well, having a bad day, so a bit more tetchy than normal. Apologies.

Fair enough it's designed for Geddy. I think it sounds great. However, not everyone uses 2 cabs do they? Some people might still want that sound, but use a mono, single cab system.

I just don't get why you'd leave it so you have to take it apart to change this when I assume it's not a big deal to put a button on the front or back to change the setting. Say for a gig in mono, but recording in stereo? I just prefer flexibility.

Maybe that reads as more of a legitimate concern than what I posted.
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I actually don't offend easily. No need to apologize.

In the end it wouldn't be a GED-2112 preamp had we changed the existing format.

[quote name='Wolverinebass' timestamp='1499759866' post='3333331']
That's pathetic. Internal jumpers? A switch, Tech21 you total idiots! Put a switch on the back! Did that really save so much r&d time when that got tossed off?...
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Kind of an overreaction and rude response. Anonymity seems to bring out the worst in people...
The GED-2112 was designed to Geddy's specifications. It's set up for the way he uses it. There are workarounds through...

The dUg can be ordered for use with different voltages. If you have a US version a qualified tech can set it up for use in a different country.

When you say you are experiencing clipping is this on the XLR to the PA or the 1/4" connection to the amp?

There is a mod on the VT Bass pedal to disable the high cut filter when the speaker sim is disengaged. The "bite" switch when engaged is the stock VT Bass sound. It adds a presence boost and subsonic filter that gives distorted sounds more focus.

The speaker sim on our SansAmps utilizes a gentle EQ curve that was designed to work with a traditional speaker as well as when running direct. It does not have a brick wall treble cut like some digital speaker sims.

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1494956367' post='3299977']
Love it when the guys who actually make the gear respond to BC queries.

Cheers Tech21NYC! Now can you ship me a PDDI at a decent discount please, (because Lozz is keeping his spare, well er...as a spare!)?
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While there is some overlap in sounds with our products you can't duplicate what the Bass Driver DI does with the Para Driver or VT Bass and vice versa.

Our SansAmp's are amp emulators and if used in front of another amp the EQ of the host amp will sometimes override the sound of the SansAmp.

The Bass Driver is designed for players that want "that" specific tone and the ability to get it easily. A more modern aggressive tone.

The Para Driver DI has a semi-parametric midrange control and is more open ended in terms of tonal control. It also has more gain or distortion available as the midrange is placed before the SansAmp circuit. It does not have the ability to get the sound of the Presence control that the Bass Driver has. The Para Driver can also be used as a clean EQ by turning off the Blend control.

The VT Bass DI is designed to get different Ampeg era tones. It can also run full range if set that way.

If you think the pedal is not cutting through there are a multitude of factors. How you're monitoring, the power you have available etc. I recommend setting the unit on the clean side when playing live and gradually dialing in the Drive. High Drive settings may work in isolation but may compress too much when playing with a hard hitting drummer and loud guitarist. Unlike vintage tube amps the SansAmps distortion and tube compression are not volume dependent.

The Q\Strip was inspired by those old vintage console EQ's but it is a unique design. The intention was that it would be a "musical" vs "surgical" type of product. While having different Q parameters might come in handy for a mastering engineer we chose a medium Q that makes the most sense for musical instrument applications.

The use of Mosfets was intentional for the sonic benefits, low noise and also so the unit could be phantom powered. Bipolar transistors would be too power hungry.

In the end I would suggest trying one. Specifications are meaningless if you aren't happy with the tone or ease of use.

[quote name='Jack' timestamp='1492624720' post='3281777']
Subbed, liking the idea of this. I do have a few questions for Tech 21 if you can answer them, thanks for all of your information so far!

What's the output voltage? I'd be looking to pair it with a QSC that ideally wants 1.1V

How much of a chew on is setting the internal jumper?
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It will easily drive that amp. The deal is with any amp you don't want to be running the amp at it's maximum wattage. You will have no headroom for transients. Most modern digital amps have internal limiting to prevent overload but they aren't foolproof.

Changing the jumpers is fairly easy. You just take off the top of the unit and change the position. There will be instructions when the production units ship.

[quote name='buff' timestamp='1492549809' post='3281208']
Would like to see a side by side comparison with the VT pedal, just to see what your getting for twice the price.
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They are not comparable products. The VT Bass is an amp emulator. The Q\Strip is a vintage style EQ that can be used on a multitude of sources. It doesn't have the distortion and overdrive characteristics that our SansAmp products offer.

[quote name='nash' timestamp='1490721495' post='3267402']
Their take on the JHS Colour box?
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Not really. I haven't had first hand experience with that box (JHS Clour Box) but it is designed to get "intentional" distortion. According to the description on their website it has an extra gain stage in series. It looks like a cool box. The Q\Strip is designed to be a vintage styled EQ. A powerful tone shaping tool. You can also use the LPF filter and EQ for speaker simulation.

It's a vintage style EQ. It was not designed as a SansAmp like the Bass Driver. Para Driver etc. It is meant to be used clean. If you turn it all the way up it will distort but that is not the design intent.

[quote name='Fisheth' timestamp='1489249841' post='3255500']
They sound great, could I get one just to plug into my interface or would I need a separate power amp for that?

Shame there's no Poweramps along side it, what power amp would be recommended for this pre?
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You can go directly into your interface with the unit. You would never use a power amp into any interface that I'm aware of. You can hook the GED-2112 into whatever amp you want. A stand alone power amp (tube or solid state) the efx return of front end of a traditional amp. Geddy alway's uses in-ears so there was no consideration for a matching power amp for this product.

[quote name='dpcookson' timestamp='1488906788' post='3252837']
That's a shame! Seems backwards to me to not allow stereo signal processing when you have two parallel signal chains... But I suppose it is to Ged's spec not mine!
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Geddy does not run the signal at equal levels which makes stereo (for him) a moot point. I don't think he even runs the Deep channel to his in-ears. That's really more the "DI" signal for the real low end the PA produces. Bass for the most part is rarely run in stereo. You can, but those lower registers are omni-directional which will not translate well in stereo.For a big live show, stereo is kind of pointless unless you can get the entire audience to somehow sit in the middle of the venue.

[quote name='dpcookson' timestamp='1488653202' post='3250850']
Can the two inputs on this be used simultaneously for dual output basses?
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The two inputs on the back can be plugged into simultaneously but you can only toggle between them. This is because Geddy runs two wireless units so he can switch to a different instrument easily. The front input overrides the rear inputs for quickly patching in.
[quote name='NancyJohnson' timestamp='1488752189' post='3251575']
I think I'll be getting one of these.

Despite already running a racked RBI, the option to run this into a two-channel set up is kind of dreamy...fundamentally, it's doing what my (other) outboard is doing (cleanish set BDDI and a GT2).

If anyone from Tech21 is reading this, is there any plan to integrate this unit with a poweramp, like the dUg model?
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Unlikely. Geddy has not used amps on stage for years and most likely will not in the future. Anything's possible though.

[quote name='Kev' timestamp='1485507614' post='3224398']
Helpful....

This looks like an interesting piece of kit and, providing the £ price doesn't exceed the $, it looks like a good price too!

Haven't checked, but do tech 21 sell power amps to accompany this??
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No, we do not offer any stand alone power amps at this time.

The Geddy preamp will retail for $495 US. Street price should be about $369 US. Geddy runs the channels independently. The production model will have internal jumpers so you can mix the channels through a single output.

[quote name='Sibob' timestamp='1477940674' post='3165430']
Shame they didn't see fit to seperate out the octave, fuzz & envelope onto seperate footswitches, way more useful than a boost (lazy inclusion from someone with a guitar mindset) & chorus.
Still a nice piece of gear, but couldn't replace a good setup of individuals for me at the mo, shame.

My guitarist friend has the Richie Kotzen one and loves it!

Si
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The concept for the Bass Fly Rig was a small portable solution for "fly dates" or for players that get stuck using back line gear that does not deliver the sound they require. It was not meant to be a be all and end all replacement for your dream rig. It can be used in conjunction with your main rig to easily add some extra utility. The main focus was the analog engine. The Octafilter section was more of a bonus effect to utilize some of the leftover DSP power from the chorus section. To add switches for the Octafilter section would increase the size of the unit, the cost and would also necessitate extra controls for each section and there is not enough DSP power to do that. The Boost section has been requested by a number of bass players and it also gives more flexibility for those that wish to run a cleaner overall sound and add distortion to that sound or use the boost for extra output to either punctuate a passage or give extra level for a solo section.

This is a common problem with these type of true bypass setups. Your are still getting signal loss with all that cabling and jacks etc. Plus many effects when engaged have inconsistent outputs. You would think an effect is low impedance when engaged but many effects use a pot after the circuitry which loads down the circuit. In short your impedance is shifting all over the place and hence the volume and tone differences.

In a Bradshaw system he has two buffers, one at the front of the chain and one at the back so your effects always see the correct impedance. A lot of the better switching systems allow you to run certain pedals without a buffer and others with. I think this is more an issue for lead guitar than bass unless you're using some vintage type fuzz with a passive bass. Also the better switching systems use relays instead of a hard bypass switch. The new Boss switching system looks pretty cool in that it can also reroute the order of the effects.

[quote name='Wolverinebass' timestamp='1471619792' post='3114556']
Yeah, fair enough about import tax and VAT, but are you actually trying to justify the fact that your Dug Pinnick amp is $1800 in the US and £2200 over here?!! When I worked that out before brexit I grant you that made it £900 more expensive over here. So much so that I could fly to New York, pick one up from your factory and still have change for a transformer with cash left over when I got back.

Which is all a great pity as you make really good gear. I would have thought you'd have some control of prices though.
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In Europe the product is sold to a distributor and then sold to dealers. Kind of like my Lehle example. That product is sold to a distributor here and then sold to dealers. In the US we sell directly to dealers and we have MAP pricing. There is no middle man or extra shipping. We can't dictate what European dealers charge for their products. I'm sure they base it on a number of factors. It's a drag but we don't dictate prices over there. I think in part this is due to the fact that the US is so large and competitive. We do have sales tax from state to state but if I buy a product from California and have it shipped here to the east coast there is no sales tax. Now if its from a big company like Apple Computer that sells in every state there will be a tax. Plus the shipping will vary as well. Some of the bigger online retailers operate on such small margins they have to sell a ton of stuff to make any profit. That's really hard for a small dealer to compete with. Even here it's hard. Years back I worked for a small music store. We would sell something like a Yamaha keyboard at the standard discount and 6 months later the bigger retailers would be selling it below our cost to blow them out and we'd be stuck. We stopped carrying certain products for that reason.

The VT Bass 500 will produce 500 watts with the Blend control off. If you have a low output bass you will have to turn up the master obviously. When using a low output bass you can use the Drive control for extra input gain. The amp is very capable of great clean tones with the Blend fully up just like a high powered tube amp. Tube emulation doesn't have to be distortion.

The efx loop and DI are post master. If the DI is too hot you can engage the DI pad to reduce the level at the mixer. If the master is up full there may be some issue with effects that don't handle line level,

This amp is quite loud when used with two speakers. If you're needing to run it at full volume you may not be using enough speakers or your speaker system is very inefficient.

[quote name='TrevorR' timestamp='1468356171' post='3090435']
Isn't it so often the case with stuff imported from the State's... It costs $200 so it costs £200. It costs $400 so it costs £400. It costs $1000 so it costs £1000... And so on.
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Just to be clear we don't set the prices in Europe and actually make less money on our product shipped there. There are import duties, the cost of shipping from the states and VAT that our European Distributors have to pass on to the consumer. They in turn have to ship to dealers which adds additional cost.

For some perspective, I've had a couple of Lehle pedals. My Dual SGoS costs $349 US here. Thomann sells it for 238 Euros which is $269 US.

Due to the differences in circuitry, settings on the V1 Bass Driver will not match settings on the V2 units. The manual for the V2 has the new settings. When we test these pedals we do it on a scope as it's very difficult to match by ear and even matching identical pedals will be slightly different because potentiometers have slightly varied values.

[quote name='dincz' timestamp='1447844579' post='2910832']
A little bugbear of mine - Sansamp specs quote levels in dB and it's not clear if that means dBm, dBV, dBu.
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Specifications for something like our SansAmp products don't really translate into the sound reinforcement world. Even the specs that manufacturers of power amps like Crown and QSC give are only for comparative purposes. The main difference is that those type of products are designed for sound "reproduction" vs products like ours that are for sound "production." Power amps like Crown or mixers like Mackie aren't designed to create "intentional" distortion like our SansAmps. Did you ever try to look up the specs for a Big Muff. When we did the measurements I mentioned previously for the RBI we used the same type of test that power amp manufacturers use but used a more "instrument relevant" frequency of 500Hz vs 1kHz but even that is not all that helpful in a real world application. We set the unit totally clean as you can't really do reliable measurements when you start "intentionally" distorting the preamp.

People that use power amp's for sound reinforcement don't get bogged down by these specifications like the people I encounter on bass forums. They understand that if you are trying to power a speaker system that has a rating of 1000 watts the general rule of thumb is to use a power amp rated at 2000 watts, The sound company my band uses will triple the power when using newer digital power amps as he feels they don't translate the low end as well as the old lead sled power amps do.

If you look at those big powerful 300-400 watt tube amps that Mesa and Rivera designed for bass and guitar applications those power amps can be driven to full output with a passive bass guitar whereas most sound reinforcement amps will require a preamp to boost the signal. The difference is that one product was designed for guitar & bass and the others are designed to work with mixers.

If you'd like to give me the specific output of "your" bass perhaps I can give you the information you require. I doubt you can arrive at such a figure. I'm not trying to be snarky here but what I think is behind much of this "preamp driving the power amp driving the speakers" debates is that many players are kidding themselves about the reality of live sound. They want to walk in with their 4lb bass amp and a neo 210 cab and have 3000 watts of power. There is no substitute for more speakers pushing air. I've yet to hear anyone play an old school Ampeg SVT driving 810's that wasn't loud enough.

[quote name='BassManGraham' timestamp='1447698184' post='2909615']
Many thanks for this. I will try my RBI into my Genz Benz Shuttle Max 9.2 & Streamer 9 FX loop returns. Ideally I want to take bass head out of rack and just use a power amp. Are there any power amps TECH 21 would recommend or endorse?
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We don't have any specific power amp to recommend. I was mainly responding to the compatibility aspect of the thread. Any power amp should work. It depends on how much continuous power you require. With our amps that use a digital power amp we are able to optimize the system so the preamp section doesn't overload the input to the power section. I've used Crown power amps, Carvin and various other amps over the years. Our band does a lot of large shows and though most gear we use are powered speakers I still see Crown, Crest and QSC power amps from time to time. It really comes down to how much you want to spend and carry. No matter how much power you have you will get to a point of diminishing returns if you don't bring enough speakers.


[quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1447753992' post='2909954']
Sorry if you feel that I've spoken out of turn. All I can say is that my cabs at the time were a Barefaced Super 12 and a Markbass STD104HR (both 4ohm and neither considered to lack sensitivity) and the most I was wanting to get out of the rig was the equivalent volume of my 500W Markbass head, so the bridged 1500W XLS was more than the 'recommended' 2x over-spec. The RBI didn't work well for me, but my old Peavey TB-Raxx preamp worked fine in its place - I just didn't want to use the Peavey in my gigging rack and risk damaging it. I swapped the XLS out and the RBI then worked fine into my Markbass head (just as you yourself suggest) and the XLS proved its worth as a PA amp. Given that I'd proven all the bits were fine on their own and with other combinations of gear, the sensible conclusion seemed to be that the RBI and XLS just didn't work well together for some reason. One not having the requisite poke to drive the other was what I came up with, but I admit it was just a guess and I'm happy to stand corrected.
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How were you using the RBI into the Crown? What were the specific settings on both the RBI and power amp? What type of bass, passive or active? Any other effects in line before the RBI and in the loop or placed between the RBI and power amp. The thing to remember is that those specs are usually based on a 1kHz sine wave, we typically use a 500 Hertz sine wave.

You mentioned the amp worked fine for the PA. What speakers and system? Bass is the hardest thing to amplify. You need more power for the low end. Were you running the bass through the PA system? I'm not trying to give you a hard time but playing one instrument through a bass cab situated on the floor is not the same as a PA system with speakers that are pole mounted or suspended in the air with sub woofers etc.