thebrig

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1492085119' post='3277807'] Are the songs tight at gigs? If there's no reason to practice then practicing for the sake of practicing will lead to this kind of thing. No one really concentrates as they know the songs. If the songs aren't right at gigs then you only need to call a practice to work on the songs that are crashing and dissect them and fix where they are failing. I'm a bit confused, is the band a start up or has it been gigging for years? . [/quote]It's a new band in as much as myself, the guitarist and singer played together in two previous bands, but we decided to take a new direction, so we brought in a new drummer and 2nd guitarist, we now play a lot of new songs, but there are a number of songs we had played in the previous bands, which the singer in particular is always messing up, and it is mainly because he doesn't refresh them from time to time at home, and he also made lots of errors in the past when doing them live for the same reason. You might think, why don't you find a new singer, but good singers are hard to find, and he really is good when he is at the top of his game, but he is very inconsistent due to his lack of effort.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1492083908' post='3277784'] That's slightly different to the impression you have in your OP. People make mistakes, when you learn a song to a recording you have a lot of imperceptible guides to pick up on that are always there. The singer on the recording may have some inflection in the vocal or the drummer might play a certain fill in a slightly different way. When you practice as a band, those indications are not here. It always takes a few run throughs to learn what bits are missing or added in. That's the nature of the beast. Relax a bit more. Mistakes are normal. If they're blaming you for derailing a song, or you're blaming someone else for derailing a song; that s a really bad place to be in a band situation. Laugh it off. Pick it up from where you went wrong. If the same mistakes happen time after time, then listen to the original and see why you're messing up. It's unusual to be just because someone has made a mistake. [/quote]I hear what you are saying Tim, and ordinarily would agree with what you are saying about laughing it off, and it's something I used to do, but after nearly two years of playing with guys who are good musicians but are still making the same mistakes, or forgetting how a song goes on numbers they have played loads of times live and in rehearsals, then surely you can understand my frustration of going along to a rehearsal to go over these songs yet again, and sometimes even having to play the song on someones phone to remind them how they go. I am an easy going guy, and certainly don't want to fall out with people, but if I do something, I want to do it properly and to the best of my ability.

[quote name='NoRhino' timestamp='1492082824' post='3277768'] I rehearsed in a band for weeks on end run by an ego maniac. Bass and drum parts needed to be exactly as per the original. When I asked why it was ok for him to improvise a solo he swore at me. Make sure you're not like that. [/quote]Trust me, as I said in my OP, I am an average but very steady bass player, I do learn the parts more or less note for note, but I don't insist that the others do, all I'm asking is that they learn the song structures correctly so that we all play the same parts in the right places, if they want to improvise a bit, no problem, as long as the overall structure of the song is correct. As a band, we did ALL agree to this way of learning and doing things, so when it doesn't happen, I get frustrated.

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1492079566' post='3277719'] IMHO you get good at what you practice. If you've agreed that the chosen versions are what you're aiming for, then 95% of the work should be done before you pay for a room. I've been in exactly this situation more than a few times and know others that currently are and nothing good comes of it unless the mindset changes. Every gig I play I expect the whole band to aim for perfection. I know that won't happen, but that is where what we're aiming at. If you set your sights at 70% to start off with, you know what you'll end up with. [/quote]Totally agree with you, if we are putting on a show where we are being paid, then I feel we should all strive to get the the songs 100% correct, of course there are going to be a few cock-ups, that's inevitable, but aim for 100%, and if you achieve 90/95% then great.

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]D'Addario EXLs for me too, I've used them for years and I have them on all of my basses. [/font][/color]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1492078216' post='3277701'] I suspect it may be you then if it 'happens in nearly every band' you're in. The problem with learning songs 'exactly as per the original' is that music just doesn't work that way. Many original artists don't even play the songs as per the original recording when they play live. I suspect what most of your fellow musicians (and certainly what we do) are learning the form and key riffs and parts on their own and then seeing what has to be adjusted within the arrangement to make the song work as close to the original as you find acceptable. If you start being over critical on individual parts, even if you slavishly learn your part note for note from the record, it just won't work. The other problem with learning songs note for note is the amount of time and dedication needed to do that when you turn up to the next rehearsal and find the song doesn't fit the band, you've wasted a lot of time and the band members will then get bogged down, and waste even more time, forcing it to work because they don't want to see all that wasted time lost. Learn the structure and key parts, relax and have fun. Just don't cut out mid sections because 'they're too hard' [/quote]We've all agreed to use the originals as a guide to the structures of the song, each individual part doesn't necessarily have to be note for note, but sometimes someone goes into the chorus where they shouldn't, or the singer comes in over the second part of the solo, or the drummer finishes the song far too early and makes you look daft because you've just gone into the next note. Surely you have to have some sort of structured way of workig if you are going to put on a tight and professional show.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1492077166' post='3277684'] An army marches to the speed of it`s slowest recruit - in your case that`s the rest of the band. You`ll inevitably have more professional/dedicated members in bands, in your case it`s you. Every band/sporting team/political party needs it`s steering member/driving force, you`re already that with regards to the rehearsing, getting them gigging may be the kick up the backside they need to actually pull together. Book a few gigs and put the pressure on, I reckon you`ll get where you need to be. [/quote]Booking gigs? that's the other thing that frustrates me Lozz, with the three members I've played with over the past couple of years, it's always been left to me to get the gigs, even though every week I ask the other members to put some footwork in as well, and of course, they always say they will, but never do, and to really rub salt into the wound, one of them moaned that all the gigs seem to be in and around my area!

[font=Helvetica]As the title says, am I wrong in wanting to learn the set/songs properly?[/font] [font=Helvetica]Nearly every band that I’ve been in, we decide on a setlist, or we agree to learn three or four new songs for the following week and I go away and learn them properly, but everyone else just brushes over the surface of the songs, and I end up having to tell them they are playing them wrong, which I hate doing because it obviously annoys them.[/font] [font=Helvetica]My current band is not a band that’s puts our own take on songs, we are a band that plays the songs as per the original, because being a covers band, we feel the punters prefer them that way.[/font] [font=Helvetica]I download the originals and put them in a Dropbox folder so everyone can work from the same versions, but when we get to the rehearsal room, they are all over the place with them, they seem happy to settle for mediocracy, and just say, “it’ll be alright on the night” which I hate, because I think it’s just laziness on their part, especially as they are all very good musicians.[/font] [font=Helvetica]I am an average but very steady bass player, I work hard on the songs, I make sure I know the structures perfectly, I've played with three of them for a couple of years in other bands, and although it annoys them when I pull them up in rehearsals, they are perfectly happy to rely on me to guide them through the songs when we are playing live.[/font] [font=Helvetica]To put you in the picture, my current band started in December, we decided on a setlist of thirty songs, and by the end of January I had lean’t them all, and can honestly say that I am ready to gig them, but we are now in April and collectively, we only have about fifteen that are ready, and I’m getting more and more frustrated having to pay for rehearsals just to go over the same old songs week in, week out, just because the others aren’t bothering to put in the work.[/font] [font=Helvetica]Is it me, am I too demanding, am I being unreasonable to expect them to want to get their fingers out and learn the songs so we can get out there gigging?[/font] [font=Helvetica]Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy rehearsing, but surely rehearsals are for piecing the songs together, and I’m now at the point of making a big decision on whether I stay and probably carry on rehearsing songs I already know well for another six months or so, or do I look for a ready made band in need of a bass player who already know their set?[/font] [font=Helvetica]BTW, these guys are all really nice people, but I’m just so frustrated with the attitude. [/font]

Just the news I did NOT want to hear as I have just received a pair today. I went for the cheaper aluminium ones, but having looked at them, I can't help thinking how two little pieces of metal can cost £25.

I've got a few precisions and they all sound different solo'd, and although I can hear a difference in each of them onstage when playing live, I very much doubt whether the difference is noticeable out front. Here are a few I still have.

[quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1490910801' post='3269078'] I don't need a motorbike. My other hobby is driving trains for a heritage railway. 266 Litre diesel engine this weekend [/quote]Have you ever been down to my town Bridgnorth? the Severn Valley Railway is fantastic, mostly steam but does have a few diesels, and my local is The Railwayman's Arms which is on the platform of Bridgnorth station and is quite unique as it has never closed since it first opened in 1861.

I only started playing seriously nine year's ago at the age of 56, and I have been playing regularly a couple of times a month ever since, and because of back and neck problems, that is more than enough for me. Forming bands or recruiting new musicians has usually been down to me, and I have always been very careful to make sure that any new recruits fully understand that we only want to gig a couple of times a month, it might take a bit of time, but there are people like you who are more than happy with just a couple of gigs a month, so stick with it, I'm sure you will find or create a band with like-minded musicians eventually.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1490865310' post='3268567'] My definition of a rehearsal is that everyone arrives knowing their parts and you put all the pieces together in a band context. Things might have to be changed and honed, but working out the chords, inversions and arrangements should have already been done. You don't need to do any of that at full volume. [/quote]Totally agree, well said sir!!!

This is not a criticism of anyone by any means, it's just an observation, but I'm quite surprised by some of the comments so far, and the "[i]trust[/i]" thing has been mentioned a few times. I would hate to think that my wife comes to my gigs because she doesn't trust me, maybe I'm old fashioned, but for me, a good relationship is built on trust, if I had any doubts about our loyalty to each other, then I would find it hard to enjoy our relationship, and please don't think I'm being naive, of course some people do stray even after many years together, and if it ever happened to me, then I would have to deal with it, but in the meantime, we enjoy our life together (40 years) mainly because we trust each other. At one gig a few years ago, a very nice looking lady came up behind me when I was playing and she put her arms around me and rubbed her very ample breasts all over my back for the duration of the song, and instead of being angry or jealous, my wife thought it was hilarious and took pics of it, and we still have a laugh about it now. The other surprise to me is, "[i]why would my partner want to see me at work[/i]", for me, I just love playing, especially live, so I don't see it as being work. I don't really want to start up the old "[i]is it alright to play for nothing debate[/i]", but if people didn't want to pay us anymore, I would still do it, because I would rather play for nothing than not at all. If it was my only source of income, I think I would still enjoy it, and consider myself fortunate that I earn an income from doing something I love. I would say that the majority of top sportsmen enjoy what they are doing, and would probably still compete, even it they didn't get paid for what they do. I know many ex-pro footballers who play Sunday mornings and pay subs towards the running of the teams because they just love playing, and I also know, and I'm sure many of you do as well, a number of ex-named muso's who play the pub circuit for beer money just because they get a buzz out of playing live.

[quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1490613130' post='3266371'] I'll outline a scenario from recently to make it absolutely clear. We were at a lip-reading class, and the question was asked as to how we had lost our hearing. When it came to me, I said loud music because...etc. The lady next to my wife turned to her at once and asked if she went along to every gig, then was negatively surprised to be told 'no'. My wife suggested that it would be fairly odd if I went to her work every time she went... Get the drift? Why do random members of the public think like this? [/quote]Because going to watch someone in an everyday job [u]would[/u] be unusual, but surely what we do when gigging falls into the entertainment category, which is why it might appeal to some partners to come and watch us play, so why would it be considered strange that our partners might get some enjoyment in seeing us play? BTW, I don't consider playing in a band a job, for me, it's a hobby which I enjoy, and any money earned is a bonus, it's no different to when I used to play football, she would come and watch me play.

My wife comes to 95% of my gigs, and when I'm not gigging, we usually go to one of the live music pubs in town to see a band, so she does like seeing live bands anyway. She doesn't just sit there when we arrive or finish, she always helps everyone with taking the gear in and out, and she has a pretty good ear when it comes to sound checks. As a band, we like to have our wags come to the gigs, it's a social thing for them, it helps fill out the venues, extra money being spent on drinks which all helps getting repeat bookings. And she also thinks that bass players are the coolest sounding member of bands.

I used to live on the Hertfordshire/London border and I guess it would have been possible to travel by public transport to some gigs, although I don't know how I would have managed to lug my rig about, but where I live now, a car is a must if I want to gig, there are no buses after 6pm, and no train station, so any gigs outside of my home town would cost me more in cabs than my cut from the gig I'm afraid, and just getting to rehearsal is a one hour round trip.

[quote name='casapete' timestamp='1487692800' post='3241893'] No music or tab I'm afraid, but a great tune. Think it was Tetsu on the recording, Ronnie Lane having left the band just before. [/quote]Yep! it was definitely Tetsu.

Does anyone have the music or tab to Pool Hall Richard please? I know it's a straight forward song to play, and I can put my own take on the bass line, but I would like to know what exactly is being played on the original recording, for some reason I'm finding it hard to hear the bass properly. I guess it's because my ears are well and truly shot! Maybe if you play it, or have played it in the past, you could let me know what you do with it. Thanks.

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1484916365' post='3219649'] It might be prudent to have it checked by a medical expert first. Assuming it is a technique problem...check out the clips below. [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRkSsapYYsA"]https://www.youtube....h?v=VRkSsapYYsA[/url] [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIYuqTsUlyM"]https://www.youtube....h?v=uIYuqTsUlyM[/url] [/quote]Yep, definitely get it checked out first.

[color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Mojo, it could be RSI, but unfortunately, it sounds like there is a chance that it is caused by arthritis, I have it in both thumbs and it has been a big problem for me for the past ten years.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I had a Trapeziumectomy on my right thumb about eight year’s ago, it’s an operation where the trapezium bone was removed and was replaced by an artificial one, but it didn’t work and I was in more pain than before, so six month’s later it was removed and they used one of my tendons folded into the space which then acts as the buffer between the bones, the result was better, but not great, and now I am experiencing as much pain as before the ops.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Because it wasn’t very successful, I did not go ahead with the second op on my left thumb, it’s still painful, but not as bad as the right thumb, and after each op, I was in a plaster cast for six weeks and then had to wear a brace for about another eight weeks.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I was advised afterwards by a different specialist, that he would never advise anybody to have the op because of the low success rate.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Here is some information on a Trapeziumectomy,[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][u][url="http://www.royalberkshire.nhs.uk/patient-information-leaflets/trapeziumectomy-january-2014.htm"]http://www.royalberkshire.nhs.uk/patient-information-leaflets/trapeziumectomy-january-2014.htm[/url][/u][/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]To enable me to play, I tend to rest my thumb lightly on the pickup with my wrist resting on the body of the bass, it’s poor technique I know, but it’s the only way I can play now, and with my left hand? I just let my thumb go where it wants to without forcing it to do anything it doesn’t want to, otherwise it becomes too painful.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color] [color=#000000][font=Helvetica][size=2] [size=4][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]I wish you all the best Mojo, and I hope that you find a way of playing that allows you keep on going for some time yet.[/font][/size][/size][/font][/color]

Good luck with it Nancy, we played on the Colin Young Show on BBC Radio Shropshire in August, and it was a great experience and really good fun. Enjoy!!!

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1484316400' post='3214627'] ...new band... [/quote]Yep, I've thought about it, but these guys are really good and it's one of the best bands I've ever been in, yes, they should be more considerate, [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]but to be honest,[/font][/color] almost every band I've been in has been the same. Is it just us bass players who are the sensible ones?

[quote name='Marc S' timestamp='1484305744' post='3214483'] This was my first thought too..... I've been in bands where rehearsal could be a wall of noise - and I well recall trying lots of different approaches, including mics positioned in different locations - in one band I even tried getting someone to record it, so the others could hear what was happening, but I think other members tended to blame the acoustics of the room / the PA / Someone else's amp being too close, or pointing the wrong way etc / the drummer being too loud or changing how hard he played (even when he didn't). So try the simple solution of earplugs first - might even help protect what's left of your hearing..... worth a try anyway? Good luck with it, and hope you find the solution that suits you [/quote]Thanks for the suggestion Mark but I've got earplugs and unfortunately they muffle the sound too much. Your right about the other members all blaming everything other than the fact that they are all playing too bleedin' loud!

[quote name='dood' timestamp='1484258739' post='3214211'] It can help, but channeling everything in to mono could actually make things worse. I'd suggest using a stereo mic of some sort feeding in to your IEM channel to get a better more coherent version of what is going on in the room. I'm going to try out a Zoom H1 handheld recorder for such a job actually. Even though it is a recorder, it has a line out direct from the stereo microphone elements that could be fed in to the IEM signal path. I've tested the theory with my Zoom Q8 camera and that seems to work very well, but don't want to take a big camera out all the time just to use the audio line out. Oh and the band won't turn down? If it's causing problems for your hearing, then it's most certainly doing the same for theirs too. Seems odd they aren't fussed about damaging the only set of ears they'll ever have! [/quote]I use a Zoom H1 to record our rehearsals all the time, I've never thought about popping some IEM's into the headphones out. I will get myself a decent set of IEM's and try that out next week, thanks for the tip. As for not worrying about their own ears? I've mentioned it so many times, and no pun intended, it falls on "DEAF EARS" I'm afraid, so I've decided that I will take care of my own, and if they don't care about theirs, then that is their problem from now on.