thebrig

I left my function band just a couple of weeks after I secured a £2,000 gig for us, mainly because I did not enjoy what we were playing, and what we were doing to ask for that kind of money. Arriving really early, setting up before all the notorieties arrived, then going off to the local cafe or pub to kill time (sometimes 4 or 5 hours), and then getting to play just when people are deciding that's it's time to go home. Give me a jam down at the local, in front a couple of old men and the dog any time! it's what I LOVE!!!!!!!! As I stated earlier, I'm not wealthy, in fact, due to ill health, I've been on statutory sick pay for around six months now, but the way I see it, if I don't go out on a Saturday and play (sometimes even for nothing), or listen to live music, I would just go nuts staying in watching [i]Come Dancing[/i] or [i]X Factor[/i]. But please don't take my post too seriously guys/gals, it's not worth getting too wound up about what other people do or feel, if you are that good, go out and earn as much money as you can, and let the rest of us play for the sheer pleasure, and enjoyment that we get from our HOBBY!

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1350043314' post='1833887'] I was trying to be as diplomatic as I could be. But what I really meant was that if you play for free (unless it's for charity) and the promoter/landlord thinks you are too crap to bother paying and you accept their judgement and play anyway. Then it must do very little for your self respect. [/quote] I really can see all sides of the argument, but what I am trying to say is, [u]I really love playing[/u], and if there was no payment, I would still do it because it's what I love most in life, apart from my family. But hey! life would be boring if we all agreed.

[quote name='Earbrass' timestamp='1350041910' post='1833864'] What a sad little life you must lead if you can only feel valued when being paid. [/quote] Just what I was thinking!

First and foremost, playing my bass is a HOBBY that I get immense PLEASURE out of, but at the moment, I have not played with my band for nearly six weeks, due to the fact that our singer had to retire through ill-health, and various other reasons, and we are now in the process of finding a new vocalist. We have a rehearsal booked for next Thursday where we hope to audition a couple of potential singers, and it can't come soon enough for me, because I just want to PLAY, and if one of the many bands that I know was to phone me now asking me to dep for them, I would be there like a shot, and I would happily do it for nothing, because it's my HOBBY, if there is a payment, then that would be a bonus. It's nothing to do with me [u]not [/u][font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"][u]valuing myself[/u], or that [u]I feel so bad[/u] that I don't deserve to be paid, it's my HOBBY and my ENJOYMENT, why can't people accept that some people actually enjoy playing, and don't just do it just for money.[/color][/font][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]As it stands, I would say that 99% of all the gigs that I have played, have been payed gigs, but I would never pack up playing, like some people have suggested, if we never got payed again, why would I want to pack up doing something I love, just because there is no "reward"? the reward for me is PLAYING because it is what I love doing most![/font][/color]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1349988210' post='1833318'] Can I steal this? Great comment. I *will* steal it [/quote] I already have!

[quote name='Jack Cahalane' timestamp='1349953143' post='1832582'] It wasn't aimed at you mate, it was aimed at the stupid comment left by the jealous bedroom bassist on YouTube. Sorry for the confusion [/quote] No problem, when I re-read it, I could see that you actually put "[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]comment on YouTube" (Specsavers and all that), and you are right it was a stupid comment![/font][/color]

Mind you, having listened to John Deacon's bassline in isolation, it is great for less experienced, '[i]green around the ears[/i]' players like myself. First and foremost, it's my hobby and I play for fun, how things are meant to sound in the mix, has taken me a long time to get to grips with. For more experienced bassists who have been gigging for years, and spent lots of time in the studio, they will know exactly what's required, but when you are practising at home on your own, that lovely warm sound you get from your bass and amp is very pleasing, but when you start playing with other musicians, you wonder why you sound terrible. So listening to the rawness of parts in isolation, really helps us realise that a lot of thought and effort has to be put in by all members of the band, to get the overall sound just right.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1349950411' post='1832540'] I can never understand why anyone would take a constituent of the whole and judge it in isolation. It's like enjoying a wonderful plate of food then eating half a teaspoon of salt and being surprised it tastes horrible. [/quote] Great analogy!

If we put it all into context, we are all outdoing each other! Band A plays for free Band B says they wont play for free, but will play for £50 Band C wants £100 Band D wants £200 and so on......... Now think about it, some of you are suggesting that the bands playing for free, or for peanuts are not doing you any favours by devaluing the going rate, but surely even you go in and negotiate a price, let's say, you ask for £900 and there might be another band after the same gig as you, have already asked for a £1000, chances are, you will get the gig, go away and think you are keeping the going rate as it should be. What I am trying to say is, most bands negotiate regardless of how good they are, so therefore will be undercutting the band who charges a bit more, I'm not saying this is right or wrong, it's just the way it is. If you are a band that has a fixed fee and you stick by it, and I mean, lets say, you charge £1000 per gig, and when offered £950 you walk away, then great, I admire you for it, but on the other hand, if you say, oh all right then, it's only £50 less, what does it matter, then that's a different story, because if other bands are charging £1000 as well, then you are undercutting them and starting a downward spiral of the going rate.

[quote name='Chrismanbass' timestamp='1349945505' post='1832459'] i think he was referring to someone on youtube rather than you here on bass chat the top comment on the video is someone who says this Oh my God. A dilettante. Ever heard of the phrase "playing in time", Mr. Deacon? And he made millions with this crap. Now I know why I never liked to listen to Queen excessively, although the compositions are magnificent, incredible, ingenious. But with this rhythm section? "Don't move dont't groove", is this Deacon's and Taylor's motto? Taylor is constantly beside the beat just as well. And they, seriously, put this on a record? [color=#333333][font=arial, sans-serif][size=3]f***ing sh*t. I would have kicked them out of the studio.[/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=arial, sans-serif][size=2][url="http://www.youtube.com/user/MegaBradley01"]MegaBradley01[/url] [/size][/font][/color] [color=#333333][font=arial, sans-serif][size=2][size=4]hence the tag of "grade a helmet"[/size][/size][/font][/color] [/quote] Ah! I thought that as my comment was the the first, and therefore at the top, I assumed that he was referring to me. And I suppose it could sound like I am saying, "[i]if that's the best he can do, then maybe I ain't so bad after all[/i]", although obviously, I wasn't.

[quote name='Jack Cahalane' timestamp='1349914825' post='1832320'] Sounds alright to me! Whoever wrote that top comment on YouTube though is a grade A helmet. [/quote] I assume you are referring to me! Well it was a "tongue-in- cheek" comment about [u]MY[/u] ability, and not meant as a criticism of [u]HIS[/u] playing! I play in a covers band, and our gigs are mainly in small venues and pubs, and I have only ever been in a studio once, and that was to record a three-song demo CD When I heard my playing isolated afterwards, I was a bit disappointed, but hearing great players isolated too, helps you to realise that maybe that is what it is meant to sound like, and after the final mix, I was happy, as I cut through nicely, and my playing actually sounded smooth and warm. Just an observation, lately, I've noticed that quite a few BC'ers are resorting to insulting comments, when they disagree with other people's views, disagree by all means, but things like "grade A helmet" and worse, are totally unnecessary, and not really what the BassChat community is all about. You see! I disagree with you, but I don't need to insult you.

If that's John Deacon, then I ain't so bad after all!

+3

Must have been great playing Norman's bassline on 'Rhythm Stick'! Or did you do your own take on it?

Why are you on Basschat starting new topics? [i][b]Shouldn't you be practising?[/b][/i]

[quote name='Steve G' timestamp='1349799541' post='1830709'] I'm gonna stick my oar in here. I'm newish to bass playing and would love to be at the point of being in a band and being able to play to an audience, the covers that many berate would be fab for starters. But how do you do that? How do you get a following if you can't play live? If you've not got a following how'd you get a gig, whether you are 'just another' covers band, probabbly harder as an originals band? All rhetorical questions really, I'm not asking for answers; but I can see why a new outfit would be willing to play for free or very little. Afterall you put the hours in to practice/rehearse but if you have no outlet for it what's the point. I see that as time progresses you would want and will be able to charge and this would increase with popularity. Maybe there are just too many bands at the start of this curve and the atrition rate is pretty bad so there is always a new band to fill the 'freeplay' spot? [/quote] Exactly what I have been trying to say!

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1349793820' post='1830618'] Definitely sympathy.... but I can see how it might be interpreted as sarcasm! [/quote] Thanks mate, although I'm not after any sympathy, I was just trying emphasise, that my point of view is not based on the fact that I can afford play for free, because I definitely can't. But hey! that's what's so great about this forum, so many different viewpoints, and most of them all valid in some way or another.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1349790115' post='1830546'] sh*t man!!! You are an example to us all! And here we are arguing about whether or not we should get paid!! [/quote] I'm not sure how to take that, sympathy or sarcasm? I'm only kidding, I can laugh at myself!

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1349788552' post='1830519'] One thing you might want to try. Have a look at who is playing at the "prestigious" venues and see if you can get a support slot with them. Of course, this is a time when you WILL have to play for free. Offer to play a 30 to 40 minute set before the start of the set. Make sure all of your best stuff is in there - and make sure you put [i]everything[/i] into that performance. You'll find the landlord will be more keen to book you then - as you will have his ear. Lots of bands like to do that (some don't) .... as they get the kudos of playing top of the bill with a support act. The landlord is getting more for his money ...... and you're not doing anyone out of a paid gig. You'll find those a hoot - as there will be a bigger crowd and there is less set up time as you generally won't have to set up the PA and lights etc. Just make sure you don't act like prima donnas (as did one act who supported us until we put them straight) and make sure that you are willing to help with the set up and tear down if asked ..... and make sure you stay to the end and don't get lost after your own performance. [/quote] Great advice and much appreciated. To be quite honest, most of the free gigs that we have done, have really only been 'one set' jobs anyway, and mainly to see if we are up to it, which we now know we are, as we get great receptions from the crowd, but we do know our level, and would never think that we were better than we actually are.

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1349787800' post='1830507'] Good point. I do agree that smaller venues can be a good starting point for new bands. However, there is, to me, a problem with this playing for free thing - which is a broader topic than ..... "it's up to them if they want to play for free or not". I play in a three piece covers band doing sort of up-tempo pop/dance stuff ..... generally well-received everywhere we go. Here's the issue. There are three of us. I'm a financially comfortable old git for whom £50 to £100 won't make any difference. Our guitarist, a late thirties software developer, has had to take a pay cut through lack of software work and has to support his wife and three kids. He relies on the £50 to £100 he gets twice or three times a month to make ends meet. He's very talented and a great frontman so is worth that £50 to £100. Our (newly recruited) drummer is a pro musician. By that, I don't mean Phil Collins, I mean a bloke who teaches drumming, plays in sessions for a couple of recording studios, does corporate workshops - does drum tuition at schools. He says with cutbacks all over the place, things are getting tighter. His gig money is an essential part of his earnings. We have definitely noticed that there are less venues putting bands on - as they the pubs can't make ends meet. I understand the landlords' problems - which I guess are mainly economy based. And, a lot of the well-known music venues are cutting their fees as things are tight. So, it is really not helpful when bands tout themselves around for free - just because they have fun playing. This has a few effects: 1. It reduces the number of paid gigs around. 2. It reduces the fee that landlords will pay for pro/semi pro acts, as they "know a few bands who will do it for free" 3. ...... and can reduce the quality of music being played out there .... and lower the reputation of the local music scene in general (which has an additional effect on points 1 & 2). Some of the "I don't care" comments (not yours incidentally), I find disrespectful to fellow musicians. Especially to the musicians who need the money to pay the mortgage. I think we have enough issue to deal with - and don't to have our worth devalued by the actions of other musicians. [/quote] Dark Lord, although we have different views on this subject, it's almost contradictory of me to say, that I agree and sympathise with your comments, and thanks for recognising the fact that I am not one of the "I don't give a toss" brigade, because I am looking at the argument from both sides. I sympathise with the guys in your band who are going through hard times, but I can honestly say that on 9th October 2011, due to arthritis, I had an operation on my thumb in which they put in a prosthesis, unfortunately it was not successful and had to have it removed on 16th June 2012. also I have arthritis in other parts of my body, and a total of six prolapsed discs in my back, so today marks exactly [u]one year of being off sick[/u] (that's why I spend so much time on Basschat). Since February, I have been on £68 a week statutory pay, and I still have three years of my mortgage to pay, so I'm not in a position where I want to, or can afford to play for nothing, but for the reasons I stated earlier, we are a decent enough band, but we just don't seem to be able to break onto the local circuit. I can't walk more than 100 yards or so, without having to stop for a rest, and I need a stick a lot of the time now, but please believe me when I say I do not feel sorry for myself, because I spent years, bringing seriously ill patients, some only babies to hospital from all parts of the UK, so I know that I am one of the lucky ones, but apart from my family, playing bass in a band situation is the biggest enjoyment I get, even if when we do gig, it's painful during each set, but the adrenalin carries me through.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1349786856' post='1830490'] Is this still going on? Since it is a couple more points.... Firstly every poster needs to say whether they are talking about covers bands or originals bands since they are two entirely different markets with different long and short term aims. Secondly I find the idea that live bands are basically interchangeable completely laughable. Unless you are the most generic of average covers bands you must have something the differentiates you from other bands - songs performance etc. My band plays original music and most of the time we get paid for it. I'm not worried about bands playing for free taking gigs away from us because they are not Dick Venom & The Terrortones and therefore are not a substitute. [/quote] That's exactly right, my band playing at the local "spit & sawdust" for nothing, will never be a threat to you lot, you are a great band that deserves a fee. My band is a decent band, but we struggle to break onto the local circuit of 'prestigious' venues, not because they think we are crap, we hand out demo's and cards with our website address, and when you go back the following week to see what they think, they can't even remember what they did with the Cd's etc. that we gave them. So in the end, if you want to play live, sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, or put all your gear in the 'for sale' section. I absolutely love playing music, and unlike some, for me, playing for nothing is better than not playing at all. And I say it again, if you are that good, then a few bands who play for the sheer pleasure of it, will be of no threat to you at all!

There seems to be a strong link with this ongoing thread: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/182290-play-for-free/"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/182290-play-for-free/[/url]

[quote name='The Dark Lord' timestamp='1349786177' post='1830475'] Although this is a poorly thought out analogy. A better one would be if there were a few plumbers out there offering to come and do it for free - thereby doing the normal plumbers out of work. [/quote] Fair enough, but were there no points in my post that you agree with?

Whether you like it or not, playing at "The Dog & Duck" in front of a handful of people, is the starting/lowest (nothing wrong with that) rung of the ladder, as you work your way up to the larger venues, and then if your really good/lucky, maybe stadiums, for decent sums of money. I don't see that its any different to lets say, footballers playing in the park or lower leagues for nothing, but once they prove themselves, they can then command a fee, at better clubs in better stadiums. I think that most of the people on here, [u]are not[/u] talking about playing the prestigious venues in town for nothing, but the smaller pubs who attract few punters, regardless of whether they have a band on or not. Not all the people who run pubs are clued up on music, and don't have a clue about promotion, facebook, distributing flyers etc. so in some ways, they are giving the [u]new[/u], and maybe [u]less talented[/u] bands a chance to play 'live', even if it is for nothing, we all play at different levels, and we all deserve that chance to see if we can cut it or not. At the end of the day, we are not talking about big money at most venues, £200/250 split between 4/5 people doesn't amount to much, and how many of you 'elite' bands actually pay tax? and if you are in the bracket of having to pay tax, then a bunch of hobby musicians are never going to be a threat to the top bands earning good money at the top venues. Life is too short, so why don't we all just [b]live and let live![/b] I'm now going to change the washer on my leaking tap now, [b]hold on![/b] maybe I should get a plumber in to do it instead, as I might be doing him out earning a bit of cash.

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1349732922' post='1829938'] A lot of money ... but those neck date stamps only started in 1962 and the first number, i.e. 6 in your example, was not a date but a model number. 5 for Precision, 7 for Jazz and 6 was Bass VI. The letter at the end is nut width. [url="http://zeus.lunarpages.com/~jimshi2/neckstamps/fender_neck_codes_1962.htm"]http://zeus.lunarpag..._codes_1962.htm[/url] [/quote] Thanks for the info, with or without the date stamp, I think a lottery win is the only way I will ever have a chance of owning a 51 precision. Mind you, am I right in saying that John Entwistle owned No 5, and he said that it was crap, and unplayable?