fretmeister

That'ss a weird thing with tab. It limits the player to someone else’s choice of position playing.

I once bought the official Muse bass book and although the notes were right, Hysteria’s tab was all string skipping instead of pedalling open strings. It made it much harder to play.

I suspect they used software to read the notation a human had written out and it just generated the lowest possible position for a note rather than considering playing ease.

Just before xmas.

Cheap stuff seems to be as quick as it used to be. Expensive stuff seems to take an age to clear customs.

I just spotted this thread.

It might be an Origin item that I really want. And it would be significantly cheaper than buying a Noble di!

25 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Really?

 

That sort of thing is rather rare.

And it doesn't look like it is in C Major so it's lacking a key signature.

I don't know why so many guitarists and bassists try to find often more complex ways of reading than just learning the system that every other instrument uses without a thought.

It really isn't difficult and despite the "don't learn theory - it ruins creativity" crowd, this is NOT learning theory, it's just learning reading.

We can all read a novel in our primary language without needing to know what the Past Perfect Progressive tense is or how it works.

EDIT:

It also doesn't mention tuning so there is no actual confirmation of pitch information.

And it doesn't have a clef so it could be for bass, or as it shows 4 strings it could be for violin, cello, uke as well.

On 18/01/2025 at 00:26, mcnach said:

 

Indeed, it sounds a bit... obtuse not to let you have those tracks now. It's NOW that they would really be useful, not later on when you've already familiar with how they play them 🤷

Maybe the boss thinks the OP is going to steal the tracks and then set up a competing band... organising rehearsals for maybe 20 people and dealing with all that admin....   

(I'd rather cut my own hands off!)

51 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Passive cabs for me.

 

If anything breaks or I want to upgrade, I'd prefer everything in separate boxes.

Me too.

I'm kind of looking at this as being a middle ground between a fully featured combo and a separates rig, and ultimately not doing either job.

I get it a lot more for guitarists using modellers more extensively.

1 hour ago, SimonK said:

 

Yes I agree - hence it's not for everyone as it is a cultural difference. Thus said some bands are a bit more flexible than others.

I do remember one occasion at a rehearsal where we were playing a big band version of Europe's "Final Countdown."

The bass part was crap and the entire arrangement lacked the feel of the original which had quite a driving tempo.

So I did something different.

The MD was all "what on earth are you playing?"

Me: "Exactly what is on the sheet."

MD: "No you are not"

Me: "I am - I'm just not playing the bass part! I'm playing the guitar part. It's on the sheet"

The guitar part is quite gallop-like. We then tried it both ways and my version was preferred, especially as at the time we didn't have a guitarist.

My formative years of being obsessed by Steve Harris definitely helped there!

1 hour ago, SimonK said:

 

This is so important! I make it very clear to every band I'm in that I'm not the right player if they just want someone to stick to what's written. I get bored far too easily and start experimenting once I've played something a few times! Of course iconic bass lines need to stay more or less the same, but elsewhere I start experimenting with different fingerings, different octaves, trying it on a fretless instead, seeing if a different syncopation works...

Surely the bass player in a big band type arrangement is the very definition of a sideman who has to play what is on the sheet?

If I thought of something that I thought worked better I always asked the MD so it could be tried at a rehearsal and then either officially changed or not. The last thing the rest of the band needs is for 1 person to improv unexpectedly and have them all second guessing whether they have lost their place in the tune!

1 minute ago, solo4652 said:

I'd like to thank everybody here for helping me to understand what's going on with these orchestra tabs. A lot of the confusion comes from me attempting to play bass in an environment  that I have no previous experience of. I naively thought it would be like playing in a large covers band but, of course, it certainly isn't!

 

This is what I'm going to do: I'll ask the arranger to send me the tab for four songs, and to tell me about any key changes. I'll also ask him to send me the rehearsal tracks for those songs. That way, I'll give myself the best chance of going to the next rehearsal and making a useful contribution. I can't sight-read tabs, so to be given a tab sheet sight unseen and be expected to play it there and then is not going to happen. If he can't/won't send me the rehearsal tracks, I suppose I could use Audacity to change the pitch of a standard YouTube recording for re-keyed songs to give me something to practise against, but that's not going to cover any new arrangements. The four songs would be: Riders on the storm, Baker Street, One Vision and More than Words (Extreme). There's also The Chain. If any of that causes any difficulties for the arranger, I'll most probably throw in the towel. 

Do not throw in the towel!

Nobody can sight read tabs - they are a crap system for sightreading as a fret number doesn't give any timing information for the note.

Trust me - 10 mins a day and you'll be reading Grade 1 in 6 months and those images you have shared are no more difficult than that.

26 minutes ago, Huge Hands said:

I play in a concert band (brass, woodwind) and like you, joined as a reading novice 11 years ago.

 

I found it is the norm for the band to hardly ever play in the original key of a modern piece - I would guestimate the majority of our pieces are usually played in F, Bb and Eb keys (1-3 flats). 

 

WIth the concert band, if you want to play along, the easiest way is to find a video of another concert band playing the same arrangement.  

 

I am guessing that your arranger may be trying to be clever and make their own arrangements for an orchestra, which means there likely won't be any other recordings, unless your orchestra has played it elsewhere before and been filmed/posted?

 

I wonder how that works with copyright?   As far as I understood it, bands like ours have to buy scores and with that comes some performance rights? 

 

I always I assumed that was why whenever you get a famous group medley (ie Abba, The Beatles. Elton John etc)  you either get one really famous one and a load of less famous songs, or the arrangements are so butchered they don't sound anywhere near the original.   I thought this was because it was too expensive for the publishers to secure the copyright from the original artists....?

 

I could be very wrong and overthinking it all of course....

 

Another one to watch out for with these kind of bands/orchestras - if original scores, you may get "tuba" or "basses" parts which can be written an octave lower than bass guitar parts.   Although I know what the notes are - I often struggle if sight reading faster parts and trying to transpose up an octave at the same time!

Re-arrangements of existing tunes are still covered by copyright / IP rights. They are referred to as Derivative Works.

Butchering just means the new arranger didn't know what they are doing, or they got instructions to do it in a simplified way or to suit a particular band make up. Hal Leonard has multiple versions of famous tunes. Sometimes only slightly different to allow for junior / senior players. and then sometimes for a Concert/Jazz band that often has bass/drums/piano and then another version for a Marching Band and so on.

Some of them are just crap even with the same publisher. The recommended HL version of "Sir Duke" is awful - the main run is barely there at all. Fortunately the Mossman arrangement (also by HL) is far better and has some excellent jazzy re-arrangements while keeping the normal progression of the song.

When you buy sheet music most of the time it comes with the right to play for educational purposes and on your own and in non-profit & charity situations. Just can't make profit with it. In reality they just don't care unless you are recording and then releasing it for money: There are loads of school and community bands on youtube playing Hal Leonard arrangements and they never get taken down.

7 hours ago, solo4652 said:

Arranger's reply to my request for clarification:

 

"The tuning is all standard tuning, no detuning needed. With that said, as I warned you, some of the arrangements will be different keys due to accommodating the transposing instruments and trying to give them a more comfortable key in which to play. I know you like to write your own tab, which isn’t a problem, but I’d advise looking at what I’ve given you so you get an idea of keys and structure. Once you've joined us permanently, I can let you have access to the Dropbox which has the rehearsal tracks we use during the [rehearsal] sessions."

Surely he could let you have access to the rehearsal tracks now?

A lot of the arrangements I was doing were published by Hal Leonard and they are on youtube and that was very useful for home practice .

9 hours ago, simonlittle said:

Agree with @fretmeister

Looks like the part you’ve been given is assuming you’ve detuned the bass a semitone. Seems completely illogical to me to supply a written part that’s not in the key it’s going to be played in by the rest of the band but it looks like that’s what’s happened. Also agree that these are great lines to practice reading the notation. 

It seems to me that whoever the last bassist was had a problem with the nature of playing in flat keys when a low E flat wasn’t available. I’ve seen that before. So they drop half a tone to be able to play it lower instead of using a 5 string or just playing it within the normal range of the instrument.

I’d definitely ask the band leader for fresh / corrected sheets and then just play it as written.

12 hours ago, solo4652 said:

You see, this is what's confusing me. Here's a tab for Baker Street in EADG: https://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com/tab/gerry-rafferty/baker-street-bass-1672337 which agrees with this cover on YouTube in EADG.

 

Sounds OK to me against the original. But it doesn't agree with the tab I've been sent which I think would sound correct if the bass was tuned Eb. Sorry - I'm showing my ignorance here.

The one you are playing might be in a different key.

That’s very common for this sort of thing.

Blues Brothers Gimme Some Lovin is originally in E major. But one of the most popular community orchestra arrangements is in F Major to make it easier for the transposing instruments.

Basically for this sort of thing you’ll have to get used to the version you are playing to be quite different from the original recording.

The handwritten tuning notes appear to be wrong as said. A string 1st fret is Bflat and that is what the notation shows so if you lowered your bass tuning you’d be playing an A and it would be wrong.

These are perfect lines to practice notation reading with.

I’ve been there, the only person in the room who couldn’t read proper music. I’m so glad I decided to get stuck in with reading. It opens up so many opportunities. 

I spent 12 years doing this sort of thing.

Can you post some images of the music? It would be very odd for a bassist in this situation to be expected to swap instruments or retune.

When there's a lot of transposing instruments the bass and guitar hardly ever get to play rock tunes in the original keys. There's a chance you'll never play an open E ever again!

Also - get yourself Stu Clayton's beginner sight reading book and get stuck in. Most community orchestras never play anything above Grade 3 standard anyway and it's usually quick to get up to speed with proper notation.

You'll only need 10 mins per day sight reading practice and in a year you'll be playing Grade 3 stuff easily.

Get the finance company on it straight away.

Don't wait.

17 hours ago, moley6knipe said:

The thing that puts me off getting new moulds is all my local sites are Boots - thus likely an indifferent 19 yo doing the do 😩

They'll be done by an audiologist who normally does hearing aids.

I doubt there's any teenagers with the qualifications.

However - for anyone close to Banbury, ACS headquarters is there and appointments can be made to get the impressions done there.

18 hours ago, Wombat said:

Are people happy to please share ‘which’ ACS’s they have?

 

I’ve looked at all 7 options and none mention ‘playing bass’.

 

ta!

No - but they do say 'amplified instruments'

Pro17 for me but next time round I'm getting some Pro26 as I've got a bit of an ear problem - well the tubing behind it. Doesn't actually affect hearing, but that low freqs can be painful. 

The attenuation curves are all on the website under the "Downloads" bit for each product.

You can swap the filters in them though so once you have a set you can just buy different filters for different attenuation levels. They also allow a free filter exchange within 60 days of getting them.

ACS will let you repeat order from the same impressions for 4 years. After that you need new impressions as your ears will have changed shape too much.

I just saw the estimated weights on the Alembic site.

Well, that's me out. And to think I nearly just found £15,000 in the takeaway money jar...  

ACS! 

On 12/01/2025 at 21:11, binky_bass said:

A 6 string Classico Deluxe with front and back buckeye is $62,000 according to Alembic's current price list. 

 

That's £51,000 without shipping or import taxes, WITH those it'd be £64,000.

 

Sixty. Four. THOUSAND. 

 

A Series II under the same basis as the above would be £45,000. Pocket change really...

Weirdly I'm less surprised about the Classico as it's basically a double bass, and that's not even halfway up the double bass price scale.

But the rest... damn.

I'd really like a Europa 5 string but that will never happen without a lottery win.

2 minutes ago, pete.young said:

All these pedals are showing as 'out of stock' for me.

They are not live yet.

If I wasn't taking part in the abstinence I would be very interested in that ThorpyFX Field Marshall.

I'm interested in the straight fret shortie 5 string. 30 inch all the way.

That looks great fun - and comes with good pickups this time!

Sandberg California II VS4 Passive.

39.5mm nut. Very comfy and often lighter weight than a Fender.

Or you could get a Jazz bass neck and stick it on your existing body.