Ben Jamin

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1340181595' post='1700329'] What happens when iTunes closes down and your hard drive goes skyward ? What exactly will you own? You will have basically paid for the temporary use of something. Besides that IIRC the downloading is not actually illegal in the UK. [/quote] If your iTunes application fails to open for some reason then you'll still have all your music files in the iTunes music folder. Music > iTunes > iTunes Media > Music (or something like that). If your hard drive packs up then unfortunately that's your problem really.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340181513' post='1700326'] The only immature argument around here is the one that goes "piracy is always bad". Its just not that simple. [/quote] Well it is. It just happened to have a positive effect in the long term for his particular band. If you killed my brother I'd get inheritance. Cheers. That's a very rare occurrence and it doesn't take away from the fact that people still stole his albums and the record company got nothing out of that. Bear in mind that the albums downloaded were produced with a record company - they're not some new band who have not been signed yet.

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1340181297' post='1700321'] Sometimes I feel I am in a minority of one round here.... [/quote] Sorry! The story with your band is great, but I think you summed it up with the word 'minority' there in that you guys are one of the few who have benefited from it in contrast to the many who have lost out on it.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340177362' post='1700249'] We're just going to have to agree to disagree. If people want to buy your product then making it difficult for them to do so is just lunacy. [/quote] Let's do that then, we're not getting anywhere From my point of view though, buying the product is perfectly easy - it's just pirating will always be easier - that's the appeal of pirating. [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340177519' post='1700255'] Its five minutes of commericals. That you can't skip. Every time you want to watch the film that you've legally paid for. And a big fat anti-piracy advert that as good as calls you a criminal (even though you've paid for their product). It is most definitely an inferior product. [/quote] Gosh, five minutes of my life - gone. That's like one TV advert break or something. The anti-piracy campaign thanks you for buying legally, it doesn't call you a criminal. The legal product (film itself) is always going to be at least of the same quality and in the majority of cases higher quality than the pirate copy because, well, it hasn't been copied/compressed etc. It also has re-sale value.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340176515' post='1700233'] My point wasn't about the legality of it. My point was purely that some people will watch stuff "for free" but never consider paying for it. Thats all. The last time I used iTunes I could only download sh*tty quality mp3s that were locked to iTunes. To get them onto my mp3 player I had to burn a cd from iTunes, then rip it to a format of my choosing. Maybe they've finally woken up and realised how stupid that system was. So you think it makes sense for an industry to provide an inferior product AND treat their paying customers like criminals? [/quote] Yes but the example you gave wasn't free in any way. Free is someone illegally downloading that film, and they won't download random films they don't like. I put music on my phone from iTunes the other day my dragging the files from my iTunes music folder to my phone. Simple. It's not an inferior product at all though - it's a few commercials.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340174613' post='1700217'] This comic sums a lot of it up quite nicely I think: [url="http://theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thrones"]http://theoatmeal.co...game_of_thrones[/url] [/quote] It does. It showed there are a number of outlets for legally downloading and streaming things. A lack of patience because you really want to watch a TV show isn't a justification at all.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340174613' post='1700217'] Yes but my point was that it was free to me. It didn't cost me anything to watch it. I would never have paid any money to watch that film. There has to be a realisation that some people will never buy your product, but they will watch it / listen to it if they can get it free. Those people are not your customers and you'll never be able to stop them so we just need to forget about them and move on. Well for starters they have to stop treating their customers as criminals before they've even bought your product. If people want electronic format music then provide it to them---in a variety of good quality formats. Give them a choice between flac, ogg, high VBR mp3, etc etc. Not some highly compressed DRM-ridden piece of crap like some of the music companies have been trying to push on people. Sony even went so far as to put root-kits on some cds for goodness sake---Dear Sony, if I bought your cd you should not treat me like sh*t. Yours, a customer. The film industry are even worse for this. Buy a blu-ray or dvd these days and you get thanked for that with five minutes of (unskippable) trailers that you have to sit through every time you want to watch it. And then, even though you bought their dvd, you get a lovely annoying ad saying "Don't steal DVDs, its bad, mm-kay". Meanwhile, all the pirates out there who've downloaded it have it in a format that skips straight to the feature with none of the sh*tty, annoying ads. Rewarding people for buying your product with an inferior experience to that you get from stealing it is just moronic. [/quote] You did pay to watch the film though. You pay your TV license right? You pay Sky/Virgin Media/BT for any package you might have? That's you paying to watch that film. The view count of advertisements on that channel etc etc is how the broadcaster makes their money, which pays for their right to show the film. Through this chain by watching that film on TV you have paid the people who own the copyright to it. iTunes provides a vast library of good-quality music and is easy to use. Has really it got to the point where we're justifying pirate over legal because we can't be bothered to sit through a few trailers?

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340147348' post='1700136'] No, I don't buy that. I watched some sh*t film on the TV the other night but I'd never in a million years have paid money to do so. [/quote] The difference is the TV channel paid to show that film whether you liked it or not. People won't download films they don't like.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340146076' post='1700117'] As for the dvds---file that one under "if they wouldn't have bought it anyway then they're not your customer". [/quote] AKA if the convenient option to illegally download it wasn't there then they probably would've bought it.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340146076' post='1700117'] I also don't think it makes sense that record companies make more profits than musicans do. Lots of things in society don't make sense when you look at them in an ideal manner. But you can sit about going "oh this is so unfair" or you can do something about it. [/quote] Why shouldn't record companies make more than the artist? It's just business. The artist signed the contract - the record company puts their music out there and pays them an advance based on how much money they think their music will bring in. The company pays for all their expenses and advertising and takes all the financial risk - the artist gets to do music for a living and if successful makes a fair amount of money whilst they're at it. Fair deal to me? Should the factory workers get paid more than the factory manager? Me doing something about it is stopping using these sites and then posting an article on here and hoping some people will tag along. Until a decent enforceable law gets passed/these sites come down that's the only way it's going to happen.

[quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1340144338' post='1700079'] To be blunt, I don't believe that. For instance I've seen reports that suggest the same people who download the most films are also the same people who buy the most DVDs. Businesses need to change and evolve, or they die. The music business is no different. [/quote] Just because they buy more DVDs doesn't lesser the impact they have on the films they download? I agree with you in that if nothing changes the music business will be forced to change, and not to the benefit of the artist as far as I can see. Morally it's not the business that should change, but the ones committing the crime. Business: "Dear Society, please stop stealing from me, it's ruining my business and the manufacturer's business." Society: "So? Deal with it - adapt." See how that doesn't make sense?

[quote name='Cygnus x-1' timestamp='1340143493' post='1700062'] when I saw the title, I wondered if the thread was about the Uriah Heep classic, lol [/quote] It is, you didn't read to the end of the article did you?

[quote name='phil.i.stein' timestamp='1340143786' post='1700069'] i have, from several BC'ers, here's one BC'er in motion : [b][url="http://alphamaleteaparty.bandcamp.com/"]http://alphamaleteaparty.bandcamp.com/[/url][/b] the 'What are you listening to thread' also yields a few beauties, you just have to find the time. [/quote] Oh I've come across a couple of new artists on Basschat, but there's nowt wrong with talking about someone's music and linking to their Bandcamp. I meant the streaming/download sites such as Deezer, Grooveshark, Spotify etc don't do anything at all to get new artists out there.

[quote name='phil.i.stein' timestamp='1340142955' post='1700037'] the field is more 'even' now. [/quote] Not really, I don't think. IMO people still get the same music, as advertised on the radio, in clubs, on MTV, Vevo. Just for free. As an 18 year old who listens to a lot of music via streaming etc. I have never come across a new unsigned artist on these sites - music available on the frequented sites for streaming/downloading is always popular to an extent.

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1340142898' post='1700035'] I think there is a generational thing here with a sense of entitlement having become the norm. I simply don't understand why making music should be treated differently to other professions in terms of protection. Sure if you choose to make your music freely available then fine, thats your choice (and as pointed out above there are some logical, marketing-type reasons for doing so). But to have it done against your will is a different kettle of fish. There should be a choice on the part of the artist in my view. And the argument that 'the horse has already bolted' does not make it right [/quote] This!

[quote name='phil.i.stein' timestamp='1340142494' post='1700018'] long live free choice. [/quote] By free choice d'you mean, a right to choose if you pay for something or not, therefore [i]a right to have something of value for free[/i]?

Wow I only went out for a rehearsal! I agree that illegal downloading may help artists get out there. But honestly, I have never streamed/downloaded a song, liked it, then bought the album. I have however streamed/downloaded a song and then streamed/downloaded the rest of the tracks from the same site. Convenience. And this is what I imagine most people do (as is supported by the statistics of sales etc etc). 'Spreading the word' seems a bit of a cop-out really to me really. If I steal a bass from a guitar factory, I'll just tell the Police that I was planning to play it at my gigs and at some point a couple of people might think 'Hey, cool bass' and buy one. The bottom line is the vast majority of illegal downloads hinder, not help, artists. The internet and all it's wonders seems to have given us a sense of entitlement/a right to free stuff, when in-fact we should never be entitled to anything for free. Why should we? I also don't see why musicians 'need to change' if they're not the offending party. Google etc needs a smack, downloaders (like myself) need to get a wider sense of responsibility as individuals and en masse, and these sites need to come down and people need to save a little longer and thus appreciate their music and the hard work that went into it more. It's just getting to that point! I guarantee I'll probably go on Spotify at some point by the end of the week... Yeah and sorry that article was looooong!

This article popped on my Facebook newsfeed from both Reverend Guitars and Dawsons Music and I thought I'd post it here for discussion and such because it hit me quite hard. I'm not an obsessive downloader/music streamer but I've used both services before (especially Spotify/Grooveshark for learning new songs/jamming along). [url="http://thetrichordist.wordpress.com/2012/06/18/letter-to-emily-white-at-npr-all-songs-considered/"]HERE[/url] (It's quite long)

[quote name='KingBollock' timestamp='1340052371' post='1698429'] I'm not going to look to find out, but that's probably already on Youtube. [/quote] Yep, my video hasn't got many views though so I don't know if it would come up

[quote name='billyapple' timestamp='1340053066' post='1698448'] I joined wittyretortchat, but they were all a bunch of f***ing ***** [/quote]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1340051194' post='1698398'] PhotoShop geniuses where are you! [/quote] Nooo! That's like saying "wouldn't it be gross if someone excreted, urinated and vomited into a pot, boiled it, stirred it and served it as stew? Say, could the culinary geniuses conjure me up a sample just to try?"

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1340046917' post='1698303'] PS: How about a roadworn 51 RI in mustard with an antigua scratchplate, complicated active electronics, a half fretted maple neck with black block inlays and LEDs and a reverse headstock. Sorry if you're eating your dinner. [/quote] Awww man! Now I've got to clean the sick out of my keyboard!

Guitarist's Reverend Double Agent II FM

I like Warwicks too.