cheddatom

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1334574185' post='1617736'] But if you are playing covers in a pub (which is what the OP is all about) then it's at least 99% the reason. [/quote] I think that's deffinitely true, which is why some below-par musicians get plenty of gigs. There's nothing wrong with that, it's just that I can't stand to be at these performances.

I think an EQ pedal would do the trick

I thought it was well written, there weren't many technical terms.

I didn't mean to be derogatory about covers bands. They can be "good" but their priority is to entertain their audience, where as my priority is the music. Another example is Tool. When I saw them there was almost no movement, deffinitely no audience interaction etc, they were just playing for themselves, and it was one of the most amazing gigs i've ever seen - full of energy.

[quote name='Panamonte' timestamp='1334570594' post='1617620'] Absolutely - back in the day, it took me a while to realise that ultimately when you're up there on stage your job is to entertain - to put some energy into what you're doing, throw some shapes, jump around, look like you're having a good time (I generally am), engage with the audience - essentially give the punters something to look at as well as something to dance to. [/quote] I saw an instrumental band called "animals as leaders" the other day. They didn't really move about much at all. Practically no communication with the audience either. After a 30mins support slot half of the venue were shouting for more.

I enjoyed that. I really need to get online at home so I can listen to these samples

I think it depends what you're trying to do. If you want to play covers in pubs or crowd pleasing pop/rock, then yeh, who cares how good you are as long as the audience likes it. Personally i'd rather be in a good band

[quote name='thunderbird13' timestamp='1334566287' post='1617544'] The point is that listening to music in that critical sense is something which doesn’t come naturally to most people so if they don’t train themselves they listen to the singer , feel the beat and everything else is pretty much filler. [/quote] It took me a long time to grasp this!! I was really surprised when my girlfriend explained that she couldn't seperate out the bass and guitar etc. I think she can now because I talk about mixes a lot, but yeh, I never realised that people don't all listen to music in the same way.

The main reason I hate waiting around before playing at gigs is that the majority of bands you have to sit through are sh*t, and the majority of soundmen set everything too loud.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1334332419' post='1614781'] I warmed pasties on my head. Tastes better than microwaving them. [/quote] it's because of the slower more gentle heating process. Mmmmm analogue pasties. this new digital stuff tastes crap - it's just not REAL [quote name='musophilr' timestamp='1334331344' post='1614755'] I have to say that my opinion of the Line6 backline for live work is not high, from what I've heard of other people using it. [/quote] I think most people who go to plenty of gigs would probably agree, but as I said I think that's because they've been badly set.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1334330169' post='1614734'] Yesterday a band came round to collect an amp for their bassist. The guitarist stood next to two head high stacks of amps, and asks 'do you have any guitar amps?' [/quote] LOL

If you were to say: "The majority of guitarists using Line6 modelling amps for high gain tones sound crap and don't cut through, but they manage a decent tone on recordings" I would have to agree. According to my experience, almost all players of modelling amps don't set them up very well. That it's so difficult for so many is a massive draw-back, and so i'd never argue that modelling amps are better than the alternative. In the studio they'll generally get a hand from the engineer, if not before tracking then after. but, it deffinitely can be done

[quote name='ThomBassmonkey' timestamp='1334326099' post='1614616'] All of the manipulation that happens inside modelling units is manipulation[/quote] As opposed to the manipulation happening inside non-modelling units?! [quote name='ThomBassmonkey' timestamp='1334326099' post='1614616'] The biggest problem for me is that live, high gain sounds never fit in the mix properly, they seem to behave like scooped tones where they can sound great on their own but when they go into a mix they disappear. [/quote] If your scooped tone dissapears, you remove the scoop. If your tone's not cutting through, you change it until it does. I don't understand why you wouldn't be able to turn down the gain and up the mids on a POD

therefore if your guitar rig works in the studio you can guarantee it works live. Logic prevails!

As far as revealing neuances in a "tone" I think we can all agree studio conditions are far better than live.

so you can mic or DI a modelling rig and get a great sound in the studio, but as soon as you mic it or DI it at a gig it's no longer a great sound. That makes absolutely no sense to me. If my sound wasn't working live there's no way i'd use it in the studio.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1334315783' post='1614312'] Recording in a studio and live are two completely different things [/quote] In terms of the sound coming out of the guitar rig, they're the exact same thing?!

take breaks from it. Play it on other systems. Compare it to other mixes you like the sound of on the same monitoring system. Have sh*t loads of patience... That's as far as my amateur advice gets

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1334315266' post='1614298'] [color=#222222]am not saying that there is not a role for digital stuff when recording, just that I don’t think that it is as good live…..[/color] [/quote] If you're amped up through a mic, desk, PA then why would it sound any different to being amped up through a mic, desk, studio monitors?

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1334313767' post='1614239'] Maybe in the studio but not in live situations from what I've been given to understand [/quote] Why would it make any difference? Unless you're not using a PA to re-amp the guitar amp, in which case it's not a comparable situation If you've ever moved a mic around in front of a guitar amp with headphones on monitoring it, you will know the drastic differences in tones you can get just with placement. Obviously you need a decent sound coming out of a cab to mic up. My point is that the difference between a well set up modelling amp and the real thing, is minute compared to the difference between the real thing mic'd on the center of the cone or at the edge. There is a point where the subtleties are too subtle to matter.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1334312293' post='1614198'] There are a lot of people who call themselves sound engineers who couldn't mix concrete! They tend to be the ones who are the most nerdy about gear, mic placements and special techniques - the pros a lot less so.... [/quote] Surely mic placement has the same or more influence on guitar tone than the actual amp

The guitarist in one band I play in uses a H&K half stack. It sounds nice but it's pretty muddy. I've tried to get him to use his 2 x 12" modelling amp but he likes the fact the H&K is a seperate head and cab. the guitarist in another band I play in uses an original POD with floor controller. It sounds absolutely amasing. It does take him a while to create a new sound, but he hardly ever does that. The fact is this guy has been gigging for years with his POD (including touring Europe etc) and he's learned exactly how to handle it. Another thing - it's not just digital versus analogue or valve. How many people would DI a guitar in the studio? Everyone "knows" that it'll sound better amped up and mic'd up. I've been recording guitars recently, DI'd straight from a pedal. I then add some EQ and compression on the computer and it sounds better than any of the amps I have at my disposal. Anecdotes are never going to solve this debate though. I'd love to take part in some blind tests!

[quote name='Wil' timestamp='1334311096' post='1614155'] The kit is getting better all the time (thanks Beatles) but I remain to be converted. [/quote] You're thanking the Beatles for digital modelling?

I think a big problem with this debate is that loads of guitarists will set their modelled sounds at home at practise volumes, and then wonder why it sounds sh*t at a gig.

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1334250184' post='1613287'] And the moral of this story….. [/quote] Your mate couldn't set his digital amp right!