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[quote name='bigjohn' post='735319' date='Feb 4 2010, 05:47 PM']Yeah I know, I'm just being pedantic. My original point was it's a mistake to think the tone of an instrument no longer matters because you can dial in tone, when "good tone" (ie the tone you want) is about maximising the quality of the signal from start to finish and taking control of it through whichever means are best. It's not about thinking "Well, I can't tell the difference, swap it out for an inferior substitute", because, that is the road to sh!t tone. [/quote] If you can't tell the difference, then the substitute isn't inferior!

I really like that!

[quote name='bigjohn' post='735233' date='Feb 4 2010, 04:44 PM']However, if you hear a CD through a really good valve Hi-Fi, you can tell the difference immediately.[/quote] A difference, yeh, but which one is more "true"? I know that analog technology has the equivalent of an infinite sample rate and frequency response, but CDs aren't that far off. Perhaps what you're actually hearing is tonal colouration and compression?!

[quote name='bigjohn' post='735183' date='Feb 4 2010, 04:02 PM']But surely it's all about subtle degrees... lot's of em! If you've got such a heavily effected signal that you could get two entirely different players to sound "the same" without asking them to vary their normal technique, then that's not exactly "tone" is it? What you're doing there is effecting the signal so heavily as to make the subtleties that would normally end up making the two players sound completely different (their "tone") so minuscule in comparison that they need not exist.[/quote] The example I gave did involve getting Flea to stop slappping and play with a pick. However, you're right that i'm talking about drastically effected sounds. It seems like we have totally different definitions of the word "tone".

[quote name='Tengu' post='735158' date='Feb 4 2010, 03:48 PM']Plugging in the insert lead effectively breaks the signal chain at that point so you need to wire your cable in such a way as to send the out signal right back to the mixer. You can do that by using a stereo plug on the mixer end and soldering a link between the tip and ring. At the other end you have a mono jack that is connect just to the tip and sleeve. I hope that makes sense.[/quote] That makes perfect sense ta! I can buy an insert loom, then just open the stereo jacks at one end and solder the rings to the tips.

[quote name='bigjohn' post='735155' date='Feb 4 2010, 03:46 PM']It's not entirely though is it. Tone is also generated by playing style. Give Flea James Jameson's bass and rig, and ask him to play Higher Ground. It wouldn't sound like Jameson's tone. And I spent ages getting the right gear so I find it easy to sound like I want to. The other way round is sounding vaguely like I want to sound anyway because of my playing style despite the gear. Not contradictory at all [/quote] OK, not entirely seperate. Slapping, picking, long nails or short, hard or soft attack, finger position. All these things will affect tone, but to a subtle degree, which is why I say if ALL of your tone is in your fingers, you must have a boring tone! That's just my opinion because I prefer a sound that stands out. If you take the band Tool, I bloody love the bass sound on 10,000 days. I think if you got Flea set up with the same sound, made him use a pick and learn the song, it'd sound almost identical. The timing would be a bit different, but the tone would be 99% the same.

[quote name='bigjohn' post='735133' date='Feb 4 2010, 03:24 PM']Bang on for me too. I like my EQ relatively flat. I can then EQ to whatever room I'm in. I've spent ages getting together gear that to my ears, sounds like I want it to without having to EQ it. I don't want an amp "that sounds great if you boost this or that"... I want it to sound great flat. I want a bass that sounds good when it's not even plugged in and I want pickups that help me transfer that tone into my amp. And I wouldn't say my tone is "boring" I agree with what Mythste said earlier though... I seem to be able (or that I am only able) to make most gear sound like I'm playing it.[/quote] It seems you're contradicting yourself a little? You spent ages finding the right gear, but you can get your sound with any old gear! Playing is distinctive, the style of a player, the way they play. Tone is a seperate thing. So, while I might be able to tell that it's you playing through my 10 distortion pedals and bi-amp rig, it'll still sound like my tone.

I know I can buy insert leads, but if they break the signal it will be annoying. I want the send to go to the computer, but I can't really return from the computer 'cos monitoring that many tracks is a bit processor intensive. Also, I need some of the outputs from the PC. So, what i'm wondering is, is there a simple way to send to the return AND the computer from the same stereo jack? I don't mind making my own leads but would prefer to buy something.

"tone is in the fingers" - lol, yeh, if you have a boring tone.

Clearly, the pedals are the most important thing.

I have a mixer, which has insert points on every channel. I want to be able to use them as direct outputs. I tried last night with mono jacks, hoping that would work, but no. So, I have to use stereo leads, which is fine, but will that cut the signal to the main channel then? Someone must make a lead for this situation, any ideas?

I really wanted to try the boss wah on bass. I heard it do some amazing things on guitar. I use a Wah Probe, but I use it in a blender.

I manage to make two very different basses sound similar through the same effects rig, which makes neither sound much like a bass. So yeh, if I were looking for a new bass, tone would not be the first priority.

Thanks, i'll just buy one and hope

I know in principle you don't want to change the ouput of the GB, but if you got it down to match the jazz, you could then adjust your filters to match the new gain level. Then when the jass is plugged in it should be OK. It seems like Silent Fly might make you a totally clean boost anyway...?

Any EQ pedal should be fairly flat (if you don't touch the faders) also an LS-2 or similar would be fine. Maybe just wait for something cheap to come up.

If you want to use multiple pre-amps, then you have to split your signal before the pre-amps, unless you want one to (over)drive another. If you just want more power, use the amp with the pre you like best, then run a line from the FX send to the FX return on the other amp.

Thanks. Any more opinions? Maybe I can get a PSU cheap.

Most of my sounds worked for both, but I use a LOT of compression.

It's probably still under warrantee. If it's that young, that's what i'd do. Does it have an effects loop? If so you could monitor the FX send to see if it's the pre-amp, and you could feed the FX return from your pedal to see if it's the power amp. Other than that no idea (i'm only in here to see if my thread got replies!).

Basically, some wrotter who last moved my nice presonous pre-amp with PSU plugged in managed to pull the wires out of the plug a bit, shorting them, which I didn't notice before I plugged it in. No reaction from the pre-amp but the PSU stank and was very warm. I don't want to mess about trying to repair the PSU but I don't have anything else to provide that sort of power. Will the pre-amp be fine? If so, i'll buy a PSU.

Maybe you could get the same pre-amp from your GB to put in your jazz?

yeh if a pedal is fine with a loud bass, and not fine with a quite bass, then sticking a booster before the pedal should even out the difference.