cheddatom

Heh, I haven't seen that one actually. I have the same model but in blue. If you put a guitar through it and make the pre-amps distort it gets pretty nasty in a way that I like.

[quote name='aryustailm' post='156858' date='Mar 13 2008, 05:12 PM']My point is, it should never be subconcious. You should actively know what you are playing, and not just 'hope' for music to happen.[/quote] I suppose it depends what you're doing. If you're improvising a solo infront of an audience then obviously you'll need to know what you're doing incase you f*ck up and look a c*ck. If you're just sitting at home playing around while you watch tv or whatever, you can let your mind wander while you play. I do this, and sometimes it comes out with some really cool stuff (IMHO). I agree with everything else in your post (and it's a good one!), except [quote name='aryustailm' post='156858' date='Mar 13 2008, 05:12 PM']If you truly have no problem analysing music just by listening, and no problem getting your ideas across, then you should be able to hear something once, and play it back perfectly. (Ignoring speed/physical aspects, just melodic lines/chords/phrases/rhythm).[/quote] That's not true at all. ANYONE can analyse music just by listening and thinking about it, not just musicians. Whether or not they can communicate those ideas is limited by thier language skills. I don't see why you would have to be able to totally analyse every single detail in a peice in one listen. Are you comparing this to reading music or something?

I think that there are rules, but i've no idea what they are. I'd go with personal taste.

I see, that's a great example then! Do you play a piglet with your foot or what?

Heh, that's quite crap. Does your phone not do it? Also, i've just remembered a bit of kit I saw in the "other musically related..." for sale forum. I think it was Tascam, and it was a digital recorder with two built in mics for high quality XY type recording. It'd be more expensive, but that's kind of what you're looking for. I wish I could remember a product name or number or something. You'd do well to find the for sale thread.

I don't see how knowing theory will make you more able to play a teapot, a shirt, or a piglet. I'll give it a watch if I ever find free time though. Speaking of weird instruments - I've been messing with my girlfriend's "thumb piano" recently. The notes don't seem to conform to any normal key (although maybe they should?) but you can still use it to make some fun music. Music theory in this situation would surely be entirely useless, although once you've played it for a bit, I suppose you're developing your own subconscious theory, and if the instrument gets popular then people will start writing about it etc...

Ahh, right, that might be the best way for him to try one then. I'd like to see a pic of yours, I love the shape. If you were local we could have sorted out a try-out. Nevermind!

Is it the same as [url="http://www.firstguitarshop.co.uk/view_product.php?product=OLPTPBAC63"]this?[/url] He won't spend any money until he's tried one anyway, no matter how many times I tell him it'll be fine.

Due to some circumstances out of our control, me and my guitarist could possibly start playing as a duet, with me on drums, and I have suggested him on baritone guitar. He's never played one before, and they're quite hard to find! So: What baritones are there? I swear I saw an Epiphone LP one on Ebay a while ago, and it was really cheap! Where can we find a baritone to actually play in a music shop? (stoke, brum, manchester are our limits) Are the strings on a baritone really thick, like bass strings? Or will it not be much different to heavy guage guitar strings? Ta

the mic on the digital dictaphone wasn't great to be honest. There was a gain control but the quality was always verging on telephone. I guess 'cos it;s designed for voices. Does the Ipod adaptor have a built in mic? Or is it a pre-amp adaptor for the Ipod that you can plug any mic into? That would be good.

What's the longest thread ever? EDIT: How long is a bass chat thread? Does it ever end?

[quote name='jakesbass' post='156738' date='Mar 13 2008, 02:23 PM']glad you realise it's a good natured poke, we have been over some ground in this one some of it a little rocky. [/quote] A good natured poke aye? I'll be round in a bit

In the past I have used a digital dictaphone, and been able to transfer the files into cubase (but there are free DAWs out there) to mess with and/or record over. I think you should go for digital if you do want a dictaphone. If your Ipod is something you carry around all the time, and you can just get an adaptor so that it'll record you, that sounds like the best option to me. I use my phone because it's always with me, and I can transfer the files off if I want, but I never do 'cos the mic on it is so crap.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='156735' date='Mar 13 2008, 02:19 PM']Glass of champagne anyone?[/quote] I'd like a consolation bottle!

[quote name='Paul_C' post='156722' date='Mar 13 2008, 01:47 PM']having knowledge will only stifle creativity if you choose to let it.[/quote] After reading everyone's posts, I suppose that has to be correct. In which case you'd be better off with as much knowledge as possible, so yeh I guess my idea is crap.

I see! I've only used a volume pedal on guitar, and I did this to control the gain on a distortion pedal. It never occurred to me that people would want to turn down their distorted sound without reducing the gain.

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='156630' date='Mar 13 2008, 11:58 AM']in spite of all this, his music still sounds like nothing you've ever heard before[/quote] This guy sounds interesting, can we have a link or something? Your post was very good! I need to take a break from this thread for today or i'll get shouted at for not getting any work done!

Obviously knowing theory doesn't stop you from experimenting with different notes and scales which aren't even described as such by theory. However, to do that you wouldn't need to know any theory either. A person who knows theory MIGHT stick to what they know and have learned as the correct way of doing things and/or the way things have always been done. A person who knows no theory would not be able to stick to standard scales and the like, because they wouldn't know what they are. I'm not saying people shouldn't learn and use music theory. I'm speculating on it's effects upon creativity and development as a musician as a whole.

[quote name='dlloyd' post='156607' date='Mar 13 2008, 11:30 AM']Which is learning theory. Call it 'that thing I play in that song' or call it 'E minor pentatonic', you're still organising musical knowledge in a theoretical way. Having a name that other people understand helps you communicate your idea with other people.[/quote] But if you learn in that way, you might develop weird new scales and shapes, which are combinations of what theory already describes but sound like a totally new style. Just one possibility? In reply to the post before, maybe no-one actually said "stupid" but it was the impression I got from comments like "is entirely illogical to choose to ignore beneficial information" Reading too much into things I guess?

[quote name='dlloyd' post='156591' date='Mar 13 2008, 11:15 AM']A player who genuinely has no theory would just be playing random notes of random length at random times. That would be pretty unconventional in a musician, but I probably wouldn't ask him to join my band.[/quote] The player couldn't hear what they were playing and learn from that? Oh, those notes sounded nice, where were they? Oh, this run of notes seems to form a shape, and I can use that shape with this different song as well. That note sounded crap, I wont use that with that chord again.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='156583' date='Mar 13 2008, 11:06 AM']I have said in earlier posts "not exclusively" there are exceptions that prove the rule. If you are musical no amount of practice will hinder that, if you are not musical an amount of practice can, to an extent, cover that. Added to that, a great performer will make music out of anything. (unmusical technical regimes included)[/quote] I think earlier other people were saying and/or implying that it would be stupid to ignore music theory and unmusical technical regimes. Where this may be true for people who are struggling with getting to grips with an instrument or music in general or just average students (you know 'cos you've taught them!), it's certainly not true in EVERY situation. When you say it's only a very small minority of players who can progress without these things, I suppose i should trust your judgment on that, but I really didn't think that was the case when I started rambling on.

I think I prefer him with a jazz goatee.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='156569' date='Mar 13 2008, 10:53 AM']Oh yes, and I'm giving you my opinions (and accepting yours) on what I am able to deduce from your line of reasoning. I have taught literally hundreds of people to play bass guitar and double bass from school age through degree courses and up to retirement age. And believe me I've heard many arguments, some compelling and some spurious.[/quote] So after all that experience you're totally convinced that to be a great bassist, you need to learn theory, and practice technical regimes which may not always be musical? If the answer is yes, then I guess I have to give in to the experience really. I'm way to young to have settled on my opinions and I have to predict that I will eventually come around to your way of thinking. Just to be clear - I'm not lazy or procrastinating or making excuses or whatever. I put a lot of effort into my music and i'm constantly learning and developing. I may not be practicing uber-technical routines every night, and I certainly can't read music, and I have no desire to re-learn any theory, but this doesn't mean that i'm ignoring everything that has gone before me, and it doesn't mean i'm lazy.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='156560' date='Mar 13 2008, 10:38 AM']It seems to me that you will employ any answer you can come up with, to avoid taking on board hundreds of years of very successful refinement of musical developement, some of which has been devised by the likes of people you would seemingly aspire to be able to match for musical ability. By my judgement in a learning sense this puts you at a distinct disadvantage to those that do the work without procrastination, prevarication and refusal to accept the validity of systems that have existed for more than a hundred of your lifetimes.[/quote] No, I was genuinley just answering your post. I don't get why a technical practice regime that uses motor skill A and B would be better than a melodic bassline that uses motor skill A and B. I really don't get it! I have never refused to accept the validity of music theory! I accept it for what it is. All I am saying is "I wonder if we really need it" or, would a player who didn't have it be a less conventional player? Does less conventional mean good? Do you have to be able to play harder things than you actually need to to be a good player? etc etc etc. We're just discussing stuff aren't we?

[quote name='Paul_C' post='156558' date='Mar 13 2008, 10:36 AM']So you're suggesting playing EVERY melody in every position ? Sounds like a late night to me ..[/quote] I obviously have no idea of what these technical practice regimes consist of! If you do one practice routine to develop a certain kind of movement for a while, you'll have improved using that movement. If you practice a melody for a while that uses the same movement you should also improve by the same amount? I don't get why you would need to practice an infinite number of peices to match the attainment acheivable by these technical practice regimes. Like I say though, it seems I don't know what i'm on about.