jakenewmanbass

I'm properly pleased that you both are getting something out of this. You don't need to achieve world class sight reading status, but you'll have fun and learn some stuff trying. Bravo

[quote name='silddx' post='1019279' date='Nov 10 2010, 07:58 PM']I'd like to know what Jake might recommend. I am a professional trainer and been trained as a trainer - I had a lesson with Jake last year and if anyone I've ever met knows how people learn, and what individual's learning styles and requirements are, it's Jake.[/quote] Thanks for that Nige it's very kind of you to give such a qualified viewpoint, high praise indeed. I have never trained as a teacher it just strikes me as obvious that the best way to get people to learn is to discover what interests them so conversation is as important as content. [quote name='silddx' post='1019279' date='Nov 10 2010, 07:58 PM']Maybe there's a book out there which Jake feels more or less accommodates different learning styles and needs? Not dissing anyone else's opinions of course, I'd just like to know Jake's opinion too.[/quote] I simply learned from a basic tutor book for double bass and it really just showed where the notes are and gave exercises and pieces based on the parcels of information contained within the progress of the book. I think note (thats pitches) recognition is best done slowly and consistently trying not to stop for errors, but rhythm reading is to my mind the more challenging so I would advocate spending time on them separately and [i]then[/i] together. When it comes to books, really I think there is no substitute for quantity so just as much of whatever you can get your hands on. The Major's sight reading exercises are really useful (to be found in the theory and technique forum), I like some of the melodies and devices that he uses as when reading them, what you are playing takes form and therefore makes sense. My only suggestion is that as well as his stuff, anyone interested, should also get their hands on heavily idiomatic parts to realise and learn what elements of written music make the idiom (style) identifiable, a good example being the Jamerson Standing in the shadows book as the transcriptions (although some are a little incorrect) really show you what makes the guy sound like he did, which is primarily semiquaver groupings and chromaticism. Understanding those elements upon reading massively helps with the deeper skills of interpreting. I'm away from home till early next week so may not have a chance to check back in on this so if you want any further info PM me. I can pick up messages on the iphone. Finally I would say that learning to read music should be a positive challenge, the goal of which is access to music that you might not have encountered without the skill, so an open mind to styles really helps, just enjoy the fact that slowly (be patient) and bit by bit you can find a new way to interpret a code into lovely sounds. When you play/read something and it starts to take form in your ears it's a lovely feeling. Also try, when looking at music, to imagine where on the bass it would be played. I am of course available for 1-1 tuition and I have had really nice comments from most of the basschatters I've taught, so despite feeling like an over arching bore I must be doing something right

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1017601' date='Nov 9 2010, 02:36 PM']I have no beef with the readers. I would like to be able to read and understand harmony better than I do, but I struggle to find the time where I'm awake enough to concentrate.[/quote] It was really directed at another conversation, and was meant fully tongue in cheek.

[quote name='silddx' post='1017701' date='Nov 9 2010, 03:41 PM']Mmm, it's interesting that, perhaps I've made it all up in my head.[/quote] Point is Nige I think most of the readers here accept you for what you are and expect you are probably a good player, I know you can play (having met you) and I'm sure that you bring something unique to your projects. I have always been of the view that music is for anyone that wants a go, if you want to be really really good then for most mortals learning how to be really really good involves study.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1017694' date='Nov 9 2010, 03:36 PM']Regarding Silddx's reggae-playing comment, I think I have to agree to some point. When I first started playing as a teenager, me and a percussionist started a band. He was part of a local black community, so the band consisted mainly of Jamaican musicians, including his very charismatic saxophonist dad. These guys would often push to play reggae, and I was totally out of my depth. They had grown up with the music and had an unbelievable feel for it that would take years for anyone else to master. There's a thread running at the moment about a rock player struggling to play funk. You are what you eat, and in music terms, you are what you listen to. I too struggle with the concept that a sheet of musical 'language' (ie dots) will contain all the information to miraculously enable the bassist to play the piece with the required feel. If it's a well-known song, then I can understand the concept. But if I were to turn up at a rehearsal with a written score for my new jazz-funk tune, how would the players interpret it if I hadn't told them how I wanted it to sound? Please correct me if I'm wrong.[/quote] It's an interesting point Pete. The basic idea is that a large amount of the information is contained within a score and it takes rehearsal, a conductor/MD or even a producer to have an overview and express to the band exactly how it should be conveyed. There are many examples of classical conductors working their own interpretations from scores that were written by long dead composers. I guess the point is that the dots mean you can arrive without having spent hours memorising music, but can still apply all the skill and craft that your musicianship will allow making for very complete renditions of music that would otherwise require a large amount of time to learn.

[quote name='paul h' post='1017685' date='Nov 9 2010, 03:31 PM']p.s. Non reader. [/quote] Oh well I'll automatically dismiss what you say then

[quote name='paul h' post='1017642' date='Nov 9 2010, 03:04 PM'] I really don't like to be controversial and I am not really trying to be so I hope that this is going to be taken in the light hearted manner it is intended... I haven't read any of this thread but in others... I have been called dishonest for liking relic jobs, by a reader. I have read posts where a reader states categorically, and completely seriously, that jazz fans are more intelligent that everyone else. A reader has also said (and I paraphrase) that playing cover versions, something a lot of us do, is infantile and beneath him. The point is that we are all as bad as each other when we are defending our viewpoints. But readers are worse. [/quote] Well I'd like to think this is the exception that proves the rule. And of course there are narrow minded nobs who read also. I was referring to recent conversations tbh

[quote name='Doddy' post='1017595' date='Nov 9 2010, 02:33 PM']I don't recall ever saying those who don't want to learn were deluding themselves or had lesser aims in life.[/quote] I don't think [i]any[/i] of the basschat advocates of the learned path has ever said that Doddy, that it is a charge frequently held up by the non schooled basschatters (at least those who make these points) suggests that there is a feeling of that amongst them. It's a shame because we all can appreciate good bass playing however it is created, but for some reason our viewpoint is challenged time and time again as being somehow soulless. Read through again to find many examples of criticism of reading musicians but broad acceptance by the readers that there are plenty of good players amongst the non readers. If there were a study into the fairness and objectivity of the charges on these pages then I'm pretty sure that the weight of evidence would suggest that the reading lobby is much more accepting of all comers.

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1017500' date='Nov 9 2010, 01:37 PM']He's one of the best musicians I've ever met.[/quote] Can he read? I'm very sorry it was irrisistible

Some good links here

YAY!!!

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1016317' date='Nov 8 2010, 01:25 PM']That's a good reply, Jake. Fair points...and duly taken. [/quote] Appreciated Pete, I'm not about proving people wrong or making others think my way, I simply like to present evidence that is as I see it... which is hopefully compelling.

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='1016256' date='Nov 8 2010, 12:37 PM']OK Jake, I admit my OP was open to ridicule, especially with the 'versus/for and against/which one is better' tone. I just think that being able to play in time and groove is fundamentally more important.[/quote] I'm not ridiculing your question mate, I'm trying to undermine it's validity, because I really do regard it as invalid. There is no 'best' because there are great musicians of all sorts who have a variety of skills. including reading and a knowledge of theory and great ears and scarily there are guys who have it all in spades. One observation I will make is that not being a reader you will not have come across as many good readers as reading bass players will have, so your pool to draw from as example is limited. [quote name='Pete Academy' post='1016256' date='Nov 8 2010, 12:37 PM']I'm sure as a 'complete' player (and I don't mean this facetiously), you can play me under the table.[/quote] It's irrelevant, I trade on feel Pete, I'm not known as a good reader I just do it because there is work in it. When I played with H gang I learned the entire set, not one chart. Most of my working week does not require heavy reading skills but I think it's critical to have them to a greater or lesser degree. [quote name='Pete Academy' post='1016256' date='Nov 8 2010, 12:37 PM']I simply prefer to hear playing 'from the heart', so to speak.[/quote] That implies that a reader would not be playing from the heart... this is also not demonstrable to any meaningful degree. Remember that all reading is about a quick way to absorb the music and not have to store tons of it in your head, once the first few rehearsals are over it is simply an aide memoir for real players to do what they do best, make great music. Of course you have come across readers with a poor feel... the opposite is also true in many, many cases. There is no 'best way' only good music... how it's arrived at is irrelevant.

Ok Pete some questions for you. Why does one have to be better? What does it prove? What does it establish? What point is there to deciding that, without fail, one is better than the other?

[quote name='risingson' post='1015290' date='Nov 7 2010, 02:21 PM']I played St. George's hall recently in Liverpool which if you're not familiar with is more or less a massive cathedral inside. Very beautiful but our sound was entirely uncontrollable.[/quote] I've played there with a 10 piece salsa band. Other bad venue... ICE RINK!!!!

Flawed question, as it attempts to corner the person answering with a prescriptive notion that only one answer is valid. Speaking honestly and from the heart Pete, if you really want answers to matters musical then you need to be asking yourself why you would ask a question that is fundamentally inappropriate to art. The obvious extrapolation from the evidence within the question is not that you really seek to have it answered, but that you seek confirmation that your own position on the subject is the correct one, and the only one worthy of consideration. You will rarely find anything revelationary or revealing when you limit the potential outcomes of the quest for information with such strict parameters.

Due to a recent listening spree by my son and daughter I'm just listening to a load of Beatles stuff again. I listened loads when I was a kid and absorbed loads of vocal stuff especially harmony singing but never really paid a huge amount of attention to the bass, so it's a bit of a revelation to me (I know it's not to loads of you) that McCartney is actually a dynamite player. Very grounded, very solid and groovy but also fantastically creative.

[quote name='silddx' post='1012055' date='Nov 4 2010, 01:52 PM']Can I still slag off Alain Caron? [/quote] You can slag off whomsoever you choose Nige just remember that the range of responses from those that know and love you will range from to often via and ultimately people will think you're or Now I've run out of smileys I will have to explain that it's all said in the warmest of spirit mate. (now there's novel... using WORDS to convey ideas hmmm!!!)

I always think it's best to reserve one's own view of someone like Janek and his music for a time when you can be sure that you're observations are accurate, mostly because it's so easy to be wrong on the web. I think his achievements are utterly admirable and I'm genuinely pleased for the guy that the very apparent, incredibly hard work he has put in is bringing him success and happiness. I'm sure that he's a nice guy having had a few conversations with him and being a facebook friend, as well as having tons of colleagues in common.

[quote name='patricbose' post='1001956' date='Oct 27 2010, 01:38 AM']hi, I am looking for a bass tutor in westwales. i am based in pembrokeshire but dont mind travelling to carmarthenshire or cardiganshire. many thanks. [email protected][/quote] I lived in Pembs as a kid and had lessons from John Rodge, he lived in Milford and as far as I know he's still there... look him up Jake

[quote name='lowdown' post='1001731' date='Oct 26 2010, 09:01 PM']Seems like today is the day for dragging up posts from years ago... Garry[/quote] LOL I didn't notice.

Hey Garry, I'm also a big Haslip fan, met him at a Yellowjackets gig once, lovely guy, as was Bob Mintzer, I'm also pals with Jimmy Johnson who Haslip is replacing in that band. In a bizarre twist of fate I'm in Berlin from Thurs-Tues

Jeepers, over 2 years old this thread

I like to be out of the centre so Low St Get it

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1000661' date='Oct 25 2010, 11:41 PM']Marcus writes tons of stuff, the entire Miles Davis album Tutu for example.[/quote] I'm well aware of that, my point is that in my estimation the bass albums lack the compositional integrity of some of the better work those guys have been involved in. I'd go so far as to say that BECAUSE someone like Marcus did such great writing and producing work with guys like Miles and Luther that the pressure was there commercially to do a solo project which to my mind, I can see has merit and can be enjoyed by many, but for me personally rarely extends to the same point of some of the great music of the genre.