jakenewmanbass

[quote name='cheddatom' post='156734' date='Mar 13 2008, 02:15 PM']After reading everyone's posts, I suppose that has to be correct. In which case you'd be better off with as much knowledge as possible, so yeh I guess my idea is crap.[/quote] Glass of champagne anyone?

[quote name='Paul_C' post='156722' date='Mar 13 2008, 01:47 PM']You'd be struggling to come up with a scale that hasn't already got a name, TBH.[/quote] absolutely right. I think the Lydian Chromatic concept coupled with modes and eastern permutations and blues etc etc pretty much covers all possble combinations of what to do with twelve notes. I suppose you could construct a scale that has intervals of six octaves plus a semi-tone per note, but then that might be a little pointless.... Not to mention the herds of Elephants, schools of Whales, packs of Dogs and flocks of Bats that might turn up at your door. Are you catching my drift?

[quote name='cheddatom' post='156573' date='Mar 13 2008, 10:59 AM']So after all that experience you're totally convinced that to be a great bassist, you need to learn theory, and practice technical regimes which may not always be musical?[/quote] I have said in earlier posts "not exclusively" there are exceptions that prove the rule. If you are musical no amount of practice will hinder that, if you are not musical an amount of practice can, to an extent, cover that. Added to that, a great performer will make music out of anything. (unmusical technical regimes included)

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='156572' date='Mar 13 2008, 10:57 AM']Have you ever taught someone as handsome as me?[/quote] I feel that to risk such a thing would put me in troublesome waters as the student teacher relationship should remain platonic. You I couldn't resist

[quote name='cheddatom' post='156568' date='Mar 13 2008, 10:45 AM']We're just discussing stuff aren't we?[/quote] Oh yes, and I'm giving you my opinions (and accepting yours) on what I am able to deduce from your line of reasoning. I have taught literally hundreds of people to play bass guitar and double bass from school age through degree courses and up to retirement age. And believe me I've heard many arguments, some compelling and some spurious.

[quote name='mcgraham' post='156562' date='Mar 13 2008, 10:39 AM']I agree with making practice as musical as possible, that way you're maximising your benefit.[/quote] me too

[quote name='cheddatom' post='156555' date='Mar 13 2008, 10:33 AM']If there are melodies that use the movements you've been practising then IMHO you should have been practising those melodies in the first place.[/quote] It seems to me that you will employ any answer you can come up with, to avoid taking on board hundreds of years of very successful refinement of musical developement, some of which has been devised by the likes of people you would seemingly aspire to be able to match for musical ability. By my judgement in a learning sense this puts you at a distinct disadvantage to those that do the work without procrastination, prevarication and refusal to accept the validity of systems that have existed for more than a hundred of your lifetimes.

[quote name='Paul_C' post='156548' date='Mar 13 2008, 10:23 AM']Look ! a kitten ! *runs away*[/quote] LOL

[quote name='cheddatom' post='156545' date='Mar 13 2008, 10:20 AM']Yeh but wouldn't he do just as well practising his quick melodic lines? What's the point in non-musical practice when you can do musical practice?[/quote] I think possibly not as melodies are limited by the motor movements that are required to play them whereas execises have all the possibles in them to give even usage to each movement. Thats why study books exist and in the classical tradition (DB for me) exercises are interspersed with melodies that use the movements you've been practising and sometimes combine the two.

Nice insight, logical thinking and grounded conclusions. I liked it.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='156510' date='Mar 13 2008, 09:39 AM']Why not quite understood? What is there to understand other than what can be heard?[/quote] I meant specifically conventional theory although I realise now I didn't make that clear. To your "what can be heard point" I agree that that is the ultimate judgement.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='156497' date='Mar 13 2008, 09:23 AM']I totally accept your point, but I honestly think that music can be understood to as proficient a level without any theory at all.[/quote] Maybe not quite understood, performed yes. But those that can do it to astonishing levels without study are not the norm, and probably not the best examples to hold up as models of how to do it. (and probably just devise their own methods) I think those unusual individuals are often prodigious and it seems to me, quite competent, or even brilliant by the time they realise there is theory to be learned. If you are not making those around you stare open mouthed at your ability to play within a year or two of getting the instrument into your sweaty palms, then you're probably going to have to knuckle down like the rest of us.

[quote name='7string' post='156430' date='Mar 13 2008, 12:22 AM']There a story which Billy Sheehan told about the monster drummer Dennis Chambers. Apparently, during a clinic, Dennis Chambers said he doesn't warm up and doesn't practice. The audience gasp in amazement. Dennis Chambers says "How many of you have problems with your playing ?". Almost everyone puts a hand in the air. "How many of you practice" Same amount of arms go up "See" he says...[/quote] I take it you see that as a joke? or do you wish there were a grain of truth in it? whichever, if you like that: How many people ever in the history world have eaten salad? answer: lots How many of them are now dead? presumably also, lots. it follows then that salad is definitely bad for you. that employs the same logic as Dennis's quip. And I'm pretty sure it was a quip. the difference being he can really play so he can afford to make the quip. I suspect there some people in this conversation who just don't like to admit that you can get better with knowledge, not exclusively of course, and in my wide teaching experience usually because they can't be arsed to do the work, and often have a quiet resentment for those that do.

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='156340' date='Mar 12 2008, 09:28 PM']I'm not really a Bristolian! I just happen to live here temporarily Wales is where I belong![/quote] wey-uls I was born and partly bred in cardiff and in the seventies I could hear them cheering that amazing rugby team of that era from my garden, spine tingling.

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='156311' date='Mar 12 2008, 08:19 PM']Or you need to spend less time on basschat, staring at the computer screen! I think that's true of a great deal of us, though - drummers and loud cabs will do for our hearing while basschat ruins our eyesight[/quote] yep f***ed i am, got piles from sitting on the stone floor as well well I can't afford a chair when I've got £30000 worth of basses to spend on

[quote name='P-T-P' post='156176' date='Mar 12 2008, 04:41 PM']Actually, you both missed it! I'll claim first use, think Mikey D mentioned it too.[/quote] oops need glasses!!! the headaches have been telling me that for ages

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='156256' date='Mar 12 2008, 06:46 PM']I've done this based on some of my favourite records of the 1970's and Number 1 has to be, and I am gobsmacked no-one else has said it, James Jamerson on Whats Going On.[/quote] oops, considered it and then thought 60s, but of course you're right.... Ref can I amend my list?

[quote name='cheddatom' post='156188' date='Mar 12 2008, 04:57 PM']If this is the case then how is it possible to become better, other than within your own subjectivity? s.[/quote] We all know when we are moved by music or a musician. so go for greater degrees thereof

I think it was Harrison Bertwhistle (can't be sure) that said: "brass bands have their place.... preferably in a field several miles away" whatever and whoever its a great quote.

[quote name='bigd1' post='156165' date='Mar 12 2008, 04:29 PM']We all have seen and listened to musicians who claim to have no knowledge when it comes to theory. Pick up a musical instrument and start to make noises with it, you will find, if you keep trying you will probably start to string together sounds you like, stuff starts to sound good. But by the same method some will not sound so good. This is basic music theory. I started playing brass as my first instrument (Tuba). I have been a musician for over 30yrs. I find most musicians who learn by ear seem to think if they learn any theory it will in some way kill there ability to play what the hear. In my experience all good musicians play by ear, it's impossible not to. The basic thing we want to do when we first start to play an instrument is to make a noise. Although when I am teaching I find one of the things people sometimes forget to do when playing is just that listen to what is happening around them. Am I to loud/not loud enough, does this fit the music we are playing, am I in tune etc. These things apply whether you play reading dots or not, and all come under music theory. Jazz musicians base a solo on scales (as in all music), it is how they manipulate the given scale that makes it improvised (the soloists style), it's the same with a rock solo although using different scales. However you play music be it by ear or from printed music I don't believe one is better than the other (I've never believed that) but I do think they can If you want to improve as a musician you need both. Being able to read and write music helps you under stand what are hearing, share you ideas with other musicians & be able to play any music in print with all the correct notes, but you may need to hear it to help with style. Playing by ear, if you hear it you can probably play it , but not always. The argument as to what is best by ear or learn music theory will go on forever, and never come to a full agreement. I think a mix of both is best and when you look properly at either method they do both use parts of each other with out trying. BIGd[/quote] I think that's well said

[quote name='The Funk' post='156089' date='Mar 12 2008, 03:38 PM']Have I missed someone use the word "enharmonic"?[/quote] you haven't, it was on the tip of my tongue and is the correct way to describe the difference between the two/one notes/note.

[quote name='synaesthesia' post='156091' date='Mar 12 2008, 03:40 PM']Just got notice that RTF will play a place called Indigo2 in London. Not sure where it is but even if I have a gig that night I'd cancel to turn up for this one. 21 July. And to fend of the WTF is RTF posts, its the classic Return to Forever quartet - Lenny White, Al Di Meola, Chick Corea and Stanley.[/quote] Its the second stage in the O2 arena (the dome) I've played there, its a really nice venue.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='156136' date='Mar 12 2008, 04:08 PM']Do we? I must be missing something, snot box!!! [/quote] now you're talking. Arse beard

[quote name='cheddatom' post='156077' date='Mar 12 2008, 03:30 PM']Jakesbass - Is there such thing as a sh*t artist? Does being a musician make you able to judge who is a good and who is a "sh*t musician"? How do you judge whether a musician is good or not? It's all subjective isn't it?[/quote] I'm going to stick my neck out and say yes, since I can only utilise my own subjectivity to comment on what I consider sh*t or brilliant and anywhere inbetween. We live in an age where we have to pussy foot around for fear of upsetting the sensibilities of one person or another. Adds up to homogeny to me and I'd rather have a bit of rough and tumble, that's why I often enjoy BigBeefChief posts. He says it and be damned and lives up to it. Even when (as I often do) I disagree with him.

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='156050' date='Mar 12 2008, 03:10 PM']That's fascinating, but I'm not quite sure I understand... are you saying that if Bach (for example; could be any pre-equal temperament musician) wrote an Ab, it would sound different to a G#? If so, how would one go about playing these different notes on a harpsichord? Or a flute or whatever... or even a fretted bass guitar? If I've understood that article correctly, the 1st fret on a standard tuned G string is half a comma sharper than a G# and half a comma flatter than an Ab? But I always thought we had equal temperament as standard ever since Pythagoras anyway [/quote] quite simply put, on a fretless (just an example it does apply to others) or a double bass there's a bigger gap between semitones than it first appears, and the longer you are dealing with that, the more acutely aware of the differences you become. Thats in my experience. There are of course people who can't even tell when their fretted instrument is out of tune