51m0n

You can listen to any piece of music in your collection in your head without needing any form of electronic device to help you at all - and its all exactly right in its entirety, and to pitch...

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1339594635' post='1691107'] I think sometimes the human ear just lends itself to more forgiving sounds... Valves...for example.. might round off harsher sounds more naturally or blur them and the ear accepts that as 'better' or more pleasant. [/quote] Nice sounds are nice sounds. We all like nice sounds. Digital is nto by default a less nice sound, if digital is recorded to correctly then it is a way of capturing your nice sounds, it doesnt detract from them. Where I think a lot of the 'digital = harsh' thing comes from is that back when the switch over to digital was happening in big studios (ie very early 80's when the first digital tape machines were beginning to be used, by engineers thrilled that they werent damaging the the sound of the master just by overdubbing to it) the techniques used to capture the sounds were squarely aimed at recording analogue. Recording to tape has a very definite feel, and a sound, and the great recordings made to analogue used techniques that helped make up for shortcomings in tape, for instance they were often recorded over bright (trebly) so that you could then turn that down later, turning down hiss at the same time. Tape speed has a massive impact on the frequency response and sound of the final mix. If you record to digital with all the same techniques and philosphy as you did to tape (because, dammit thats how we have done it since 1950) then you end up with a fairly harsh and nasty sound. Add to this the sudden influx of 8 bit and 16 bit synths as opposed to all the older analogue gear and their very specific super dry sounds then you get a lot of records produced to CD (which no one really new how to master to best at that point) then you get a really really harsh sound. Nowadays I think digital as a recording medium running at at least 48KHz (preferrably 88KHz plus if you have the players/instuments/rooms/mics/preamps/converters/computer horsepower/monitoring chain to make it worth while) and 24bit with all people know about adding interesting colour with preamps and everything else adding 'warmth' or whatever you like before hitting converters absolutely clean is without doubt a methodology for getting a wider choice of final possible sounds than analogue to tape s. But analogue tape still has [i]that[/i] sound

I'm not sure I entirely agree with all of those examples, as blues bass goes Jack Bruce was a long way from the average blues bass player at the time of Cream IMO, it was virtually a second lead instrument when he played it.....

Oh and when it comes to amp based one knob or on off comrpession - do yourself a favour and leave it turned off.

You're looking for the wrong solution to the problem IMO. You dont [i]need[/i] fx, I've played that set list too, and only used a compressor because as the resident BC compressor fetishist I'd never live it down if anyone here ever saw me play without one (or saw me play actually, but I digress). The answer is not really more fx, a good fat sound is a matter of eq, and technique. Not wildly pushed bass, just a dab (3dB) of low mid (at 250Hz ish) will fatten up any sound - careful you dont descend into mud though. Play more gently, but turn the amp up, this will lower the ratio of the transient spike level at the beginning of each note in relation to the rest of the note, alot like a compressor can, giving you a far warmer, fuller sound. you can also use a touch of well set up compression to give your bass a bit more impact when playing like this, and get a really punchy weighty sound, but this isnt really necessary. Filling the gaps effectively when the guitarist goes toward the dusty ended flights of fancy that are his want are more about the [i]arrangement[/i] and the rhythm section as a whole working together to keep the groove fat and and underpinning the guitarist. Also study the rhythm guitar part and modify your bass line at those points that "Captain Finger Lickin Good" wanders off on his own to incorporate some of what the guitar had about it - rhythmically, or a double stop chord or two thrown in, it doesnt have to be alot, or even more notes than before, just a hint of what is now gone. You will be amazed at how far a couple of licks from the rhythm part can go toward reminding the punters (and guitarist) of what was there. Just dotn lose the groove at that point!

Digital is capable of wider frequency range than vinyl, cassette tape. Very high sample rate digital, it can be argued, has better frequncy response than large format tape too, although many people swear by that still due to the other things it gives (yes tape compression is really that nice). Using noise reduction systems a la Dolby even high end ones on multitracks, always sounded like arse to me....

24bit audio has more 'wiggle room' than any analogue circuit short of a straight fat short piece of wire. There is [b][i]no[/i][/b] excuse for clipping in digital with 24 bit recording at all. I can record drums with more than 12dB of headroom at 24 bit, garanteeing no overs, no intersampling clipping, absolutel nothing However the sound of analogue is definite and real if we are talking about tape, then there is a definite and real sound to pushing tape a bit, the saturation and gentle compression that results is definitely really nice, especially on drums. Actully go over the top with it though, and it rapidly starts to sound no better than digital clipping.

[quote name='billyapple' timestamp='1339351150' post='1687288'] +1 X Loads.. A super ace gig, completely hat-stand... Mine's a treble Mr Venom!... I think the pony-tailed rear-head is 51m0n... [/quote] Yup thats me. No not the loon on the bar in stockings (Monsieur Venom at your service), I am the far more pedestrian and hirsute chap on the left with pony tail. Proper proper mental gig, the last time I shook my tail feather was at a New Model Army gig, this was of similar awesomeness in order to make me get in the wee little wobbling wreck(ette) that developed at the end. Of course NMA didnt have a theremin (gotta love a theremin) or a stocking clad lunatic of a frontman, and their guitarist is no where near as easy on the eye! Brilliant brilliant fun, thanks for coming all the way down to Brighton to entertain us so much! Next time I can see I'll need to get the hair sorted into a proper psychobilly quiff, there's enough of it!

Quick work on the new drummer situation old bean, well done!

Excellent listen that, cheers!

Amazing, amazing team behind MJ on OTW and Thriller (and Bad). QJ is a ridiculously amazing arranger, well known stories of him writing out arrangements the night before on a plane to a TV studio without any way of hearing them, and they were perfect etc. Dont forget Bruce Swedien either though, he had a massive massive input into the sounds of those albums, google for "The Acusonic Recording Process", a method invented by BS to allow him virtually unlimited tracks on a couple of analogue tape machines whilst playing the original master tape thefewest possible times before mixdown. Or his selection of ribbon mics for the metallic percission on Billie Jean or Beat It (cant remember which off the top of my head right now, could have been a completely differetn track) as ribbons dont reproduce transients as accurately (the ribbon itself has too much mass to respond quickly to that fast a transient) effectively becoming a physical limiter,. smoothing out the sound and allowing for them to be louder in the mix without dominating when it came to mix time. Another cracking story is that they went through something like 90 mixes of Billie Jean before going back to mix 2 and going with that one! Outside the world of mix engineers and sad pale be-ponytailed sound engineer geeks he doesnt get nearly enough recognition IMO....

Single ply batter heads, no resonant heads on the toms (even the floor tom) or kick. Use some tape and cotton pads to control tom ring (esp floor tom). Tape up the lugs where the bottom head screwed in to stop rattles. Take a tea towel (or two if hes a nutter) and put them [i]inside[/i] the snare (literally take off the snares & resonant head, tape a tea towel in there so an inch is pressed into the batter head, and a couple of inches are going to rest against the resonant head when it is replaced), really you can get a super tidy snare sound, but you have to be very careful with placement of the towel, its time consuming, sticking it in place will kill a lot of volume etc. If this goes wrong halfway through the gig the drummer will impale you on a stick as the entire towel falls onto the resonant head and his £500 snare goes from a nice but quieter [i][b]whack![/b][/i] to a pathetic whup... Use a towel with about 2" to 4" of overhang onto the kick batter head, then mic up the kick (it will be so much quietr that you will be able to do this. Tune the kit to its absolute lowest resonant frequency, it will sound bigger,m but project far less when attempting to get as low as possible for each drum, Bob Gatzenburg does a good series on this on youtube. Do it right and the kit will sound fine, but you get to watch your drummer having a hernia trying to achieve the usual face melting volume from the kit. He will hate it, until you mic it up to get it loud enough. On its own he will struggle to make a dent in a loud conversation at a bar...

Up until the word cheap I was in a general agreement with you. A well set up good quality rack compressor in the fx loop of your preamp should be able to be set to just limit the transients that are causing you grief, and also allow a bit of general compression to get you level general more even without you feeling the effect on your playing style, in other words if you can feel it or hear it then its too much! You need to address the gain issues all the way down the signal chain though, there is no point compressing something after its caused an issue. If you provide a decent signal to the soundguy, compressed or not, he should then be able to take appropriate action to make it work in the mix (assuming he has enough time in the soundcheck).

Sounds like a lot of wiring! You running in any ethernet in there?

Yup I concur, excellent gig, thoroughly entertaining band, brilliant atmosphere and great choons (theremin for the win!)

Super duper! Should be along around ten....

[quote name='lettsguitars' timestamp='1339167497' post='1684782'] What? naked nurses? I'm there! [/quote] Ding dong......

Damn, she makes that look disturbingly easy doesnt she!

Okeedokee!

Sure its not the natural ringing decay of the drum? Bonham's kit wasnt exactly dampened for a start! In fact you'll probably find all the toms ringing sympathetically to the kick drum....

That'd be down the road from me that would. See if I can make it too....

Jeez, thats just not on, and yeah their studio was totalled not long ago at all....

Budget would be a good guide here! But if it were me I would look for an [url="http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_babyface.php"]RME BabyFace[/url] just simply because their drivers are without doubt the best for PC, their preamps are very clean, and their sofware very polished. Not cheap, but not mega expensive as these things go.

Yeah, everyone will be stopping for some reason. Really coming on though, starting to get a bit of a feel for the space, that window wis going to give you a huge view, brilliant!