51m0n

We do tea, coffeee, and lots and lots of yakking about basses, and anything remotely to do with basses, and music, and stuff. And make lots of noise.... It is good

Thats a fine approach until wherever you turn up doesnt have a decent PA that can handle bass. Then you are completely and utterly screwed.

[quote name='simwells' timestamp='1336504359' post='1646626'] I would recommend Exact Audio Copy for ripping to FLAC, I spent a while comparing and was a fan of this over the others due to the exact accuracy of it and it's ability to cope with damaged and scratched CDs though it's certainly not fast with them! [/quote] +1 this is a good tool for just that job

Whatever you do dont forget the camera for this part! Very interested to see this one as far as we are allowed to (Northwood IP being something you cant spill just anywhere I would imagine). Very close to rubbing my thighs over this

Oh one other vocal track to listen for that I just realised I hadnt mentioned, the second lead line. He's repeated the vocal, but almost spoken, its quiet like a mouse next to the main sung vocal, this trick is superb, its like he's quietly talking you through the lyrics really up close and in your ear at the same time as singing it out loud. Its a fantastic trick, I got Kit to do something similar on her EP, it really really works to just enlarge that lead vocal, and can be so subtle that no one even hears it without it pointed out to them.

I've a knackered back after an incident with a bass cab over 20 years ago (bloody HH 2x15s!) The only thing that has helped (and I used to train a lot way back when) has been osteopathy. Within a day of it orginally happening I saw an osteopath who managed to get it all working ok in half an hour, and the pain went completely in a couple more. Brilliant! I still see an osteopath these days, but largely because I live the vegetative life of a programmer in the day, and he keeps me mobile. Before seeing him (over five years ago now) I would slowly but surely lock up tight as a drum, to the point of struggling to breathe, over a period of some weeks. GPs were useless and just said take pain killers, which neither killed the pain of the condition, nor lead to any easing of the muscular spasm causing it. This would usually alleviate over a couple more weeks, eventually allowing me to move freely for awhile before the cycle repeated. One day it just got so bad that I looked up the original osteopath and asked her to recommend someone, she now teaches osteopathy and had no problems suggesting a local practitioner she knew was dead good. 40 minutes with this chap sorted me out, and to begin with I saw hime every week, then every couple of weeks, then every month, working away at the various issues, and giving me great advice about how I should change my working slouch into something slightly less debilitating etc etc. I know see him every few months or if I cause myself an issue (haven't for a very long time now, touch wood). This works brilliantly for me, and I'm not about to stop!

Yeah, I love hearing statements like:- [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1336487623' post='1646291'] The day I hear an effect that improves the sound of a double bass, I will applaud it. Until then..... :bleuuuch: [/quote] Because so much of what you hear is treated in some way (eq, compression, tape compression, microphone artifacts) and you are saying you dont like the sound of recorded upright, or an upright with anything creative done to it after the fact. Which is why I mentioned close minded. I also enjoy "I am not alone" line too, the Wehrmacht weren't alone, they weren't right either....

Its official, I'm undiscerning. Cool! Can I have a badge and everything please

That is bull.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1336472801' post='1645990'] Not a great fan of effects on electric bass. On double bass it really is gilding the lily. [/quote] Nope, just open vs close minded perhaps?

No mention of Lamb yet? [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pt1Ef_ai_C4&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=AL94UKMTqg-9A3smZ_xx-PtuYilNpWWpNg[/media]

If it is there when the effect is on and no cablet is plugged in then its the device causing the noise, end of story. What a crock of ****!

Is the noise only there when you re playing, or is it there when you arent but the effect is on?

[quote name='Rimskidog' timestamp='1335983523' post='1639163'] Go on then Mr Wolf. Do your worst: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-LHIXeWhNY&feature=relmfu[/media] [/quote] Right then, didnt get any time over the weekend to get this listened to properly (serious family stuff to sort out) so here goes now. Short response, this is going to be a great long list of why you should mix like this Rimskidog is damn fine at his job. Drums are really great, very punchy, phase issues? Not a chance! Is that real room ambience on the drums? And possibly the sound of the snare pushing tape hard, I couldnt say for sure, but it sounds 'real', and very very precise at the same time. Love those drums, the claps are great too, nice and 'loose' in feel but at the same time spot on, you drove the preamp hard for them? They have a sweet 'crunch' to them! See how the bass and the kick become one instrument for most of the song. Thats fitting the jigsaw together that is right there, the attack of the kick preempts the bass, the bass extends the thump of the kick and adds pitch info to it. And the bass absolutely drives the song at the same time. The kick, snare, bass and lead vocal are right up the middle, pretty much everything else is out to the sides. The slide guitar is balanced really cleverly its very 'wide' but its impossible to say which side its actually on. Nice stuff. Note the harmonised backing vocal supporting the main lead, right from the start, panned hard and multitracked and just there. Nice balance. Theres just nothing 'wrong with it', no nasty frequencies, nothing, perfection. That is just sublime mixing of bv's IMO. Now the tricks, each section plays with that bv to lead balance really cleverly, bringing in more bv for the chorus, adding different ooooh bvs during following versus, the big switcheroo is how loud the lady vox get, they almost take over from the lead in the biggest hook 'My baby's cool, she's electric', except they stay wide and the lead stays in the center, just really quiet comparatively - thats damned brave I think. I want to hear that again straight away! There is an absolute mass of vocal on this track, tons of it, all mixed beautifully, lots of double and more tracking going on. Yet if you werent listening for it you probably wouldnt really notiuce how hard the vocal is being worked. There is also vocal eq'ed for effect (classic telephone voice on the 'Shes Electric' exposed female line) that is just really pushing the 'hook' into your head, super smooth blend of the female multitracks on the 'oh, oh oh oh, oh oh oh' parts too. Also listen to the end of each section leading into the next, there is almost always a little something to help lead you in, a bit of modulation effect on the guitar going, or a synthy shroinngggg sound that happens literally a beat or two before the next section. Then there is that weird little run up a keyboard (maybe) briiingggg, like a xylophone beater run up the metal plates. That keeps coming back, its a totally thow away daft little sound, but its such a clever hook as well. And in order to keep that nice acoustic building through the song there is definite panning trickery in places, just the top end of it switching hard left to hard right, just giving more and more movement throughout sections too. Love that sort of thing. Listening again there is a very clever steady build in intensity through the song, more and more parts seem to come in. Yet it actually doesnt even sound really overproduced to me, if you were 'casually' listening you'd just think "what a great song". Not kidding this is a briliant mix. There are tonnes of nice touches, but its made by the arrangement too (great song, with superb hooks and performances as well of course). Spend a couple of weeks over this one chaps, its an absolute masterclass in mixing. Not just pop either, this is how to arrange and mix anything you want to stick in peoples heads. Quality.

That looks like a huge PIA to pour! No wonder they needed to go for a drink the other week

Foobar2000 rips FLAC (and just about anything else too IIRC. Top music playing device for the windows platform IME.

[quote name='Rimskidog' timestamp='1335983523' post='1639163'] Go on then Mr Wolf. Do your worst: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-LHIXeWhNY&feature=relmfu[/media] [/quote] Oh nice one. This I'm going to save for the decent speakers mate, I know its going to be good, but I wont have time for a couple of days (family stuff to attend to) I will give it a proper listen though, promise - been wanting to hear some of yours for a while!

Its a huge topic though, and you're jumping in dry, I'd be worried if you didnt think it were overwhelming, I still think its over whelming and I've been mucking about with recording and mixing for over twenty years now. For every engineer out there there are two or three different solutions that can work for every challenge you face as well, so the amount of learning is never ending, part of why I like the topic so much I guess. I'm happy to listen to anyones mixes, but my mix notes are hideously abrupt, because I write what I think as I listen to something the very first time. Anything else and I find my brain and ears are already compensating for anything that stood out as odd or off in some way, which is the opposite of what you want from mix notes IME. If you can cope with a Mr Wolf style uncompromising attack on your mix without it upsetting you then it'll be fine

Yeah, then we'd all know how often I contradict myself wouldnt we

[quote name='LiamPodmore' timestamp='1335952767' post='1638430'] Si, have you ever thought of starting a blog, where you go through all the tricks and techniques you use when recording (something similar to Shep's, but obviously to do with recording), i reckon it'd be a pretty useful thing for people wanting to know more about what they're doing, as you seem to have quite a lot of knowledge on the subject. It's something i would read, i know that for sure. Liam [/quote] Maybe.....

Of course this is all just technical b*ll***s. The real place a mix starts is the arrangement. The most important thing is turning the individual tracks you are given into a cohesive whole that works in the time domain, trying to get each section to pull the listener into the next section, grabbing attention yet promising something even more exciting around the corner of the song. If the song is rubbish, or the arrangement is rubbish then the best mix in the world wont save you for a second. You're doomed to have your name down next to a piece of unadulterated plop. For far more information on this aspect of the whole puzzle of mixing than I would ever have space for here I cant recommend Zen and The Art of Mixing by Mixerman enough. Its not all about the technical aspects of eqing and compressing (although he covers this stuff perfectly adequately) its all about communication skills. With the listener, the artist, the producer, everyone really. Fascinating book, exceptionally good info. if you are at all interested in mixing, buy it, read it, read it again. Then go practice, mix anything you can get your hands on. More than once.

The workflow is the same always. 1) Use your ears 2) Stop using your eyes, and really use your ears, screens and pretty graphics are irrelevant distractions to the job at hand 3) Did I mention you should use your ears? The process is all about evaluation and analysis of whats there, whats good and whats bad about it, especially when its brought into play with everything else.. 99.9% of getting good at mixing is learning how to use your ears to make the right choices when you are presented with the millions of options you have. I start by chucking every fader up to unity gain and seeing what kind of a mess I'm in (I mix stuff other people have tracked a lot of the time so its always an interesting journey for the first half an hour fiuguring out what is what). Then I group and subgroup things together so I can keep the level of an entire mixed section (ie the drums, the drums and bass) more easily under control. This also gives me a lot of leeway to add fx across sections and subsections of the different parts as well as on specific tracks (so I can parallel compress the drum kit but not the cymbals if I want). I add groups for auxes and start setting up routing to save processing power, plus a lot off good convolution reverbs definitely sound better to my ears when thye are given the sum of many tracks togetherrather than a singel track, esp if you are putting everything in a 'space' - which would be the normal thing to do. Panning is the next thing to take care of, even before eq. If you seperate things in the stereo field then the eq requirements are different. Pan wide, pan hard, dont be afraid of the pan, esp in contemporary pop/rock get as much info out of the center as you can, try and keep things balanced from side to side, a guitar on one side keys on the other, or a complimentary guitar on the other, or a delayed send from the guitar, whatever it takes. I eq out the nasty bits solo'ed in the first instance, but I refer to the mix constantly, so I listen to a kick in situ, try and hear where it clashes with the bass, make a decision about how they interact and then get rid of what is wrong with the kick. Compression where its needed, as much or as little for glue, to control transients, to glue a buss, to thicken a vocal, whatever its for, its different every time. Becoming an epxert with when, and how to use a compressor is as important as eq. Used wrong it will ruin a mix, used right it wil make a mix and no one will realise just jow much is used. It is a huge topic, and you need to really get to grips with it. It is important to realise that compression will not even out a really wide ranging vocal (or anything else) on its own without unacceptable artifacts. I very very rarely really use compression to do that more than a dB or so anyway, instead I use compression to control the enmvelope of sounds to make them fit together better. When it comes to fine level control automation is the way. Its time ocnsuming and can get fatiguing but the mix will sound better for careful automation rather than compression as a level control strategy. You then have the choice of where to control that level, do you automate how you drive a compressor, or automate the comrpessed result. Entirely depends opn the sound of the compressor at that point. Choices..... Spaces. Everything lives in a space, an acoustic space, and you need to find ways to trick the listener into believing the space you are creating. You can use reverbs (many of) on one or many tracks to bring different aspects of space to a track, eq to set things forward or further back, delays to add ambience with the musical pulse. You can add other effects to the ambience you create, phasers, flangers, compressors, distortions, whatever makes it more exciting, more engaging, more 'super real'. I regularly end up with around three reverbs on the lead vocal, one or two on the rest of the track. The lead vocal has to be right there in your face, yet within a space, understanding how to give it some ambience, a touch of a near space and a pleasant tail to that space will lead you to the conclusion that 3 subtle reverbs can allow you to more carefully control that vital piece of the mix throughout the duration of the mix better than chucking a single verb on there. Each reverb will be eq'ed as well, differently because they are doing different tings, and you dont want the verb to eat into you frequency range and smear the track too much. Subtle is usually best unless you are going fo r amajorly clever effect (huge reversed snares or whatever). Delays [i]tend[/i] to eat into that space less overtly, I use delay based ambiance a lot too. For me its more important the more tracks you have to give a sense of space but not eat up those precious frequencies. Panning and eqing the returns is absolutely vital, often I'll use a limiter to clamp down on the transient at the beginning of the sounds before the delay to help keep it in the background, and the mix of any such 'space' effect back into the track is massively important to judge right. Early reflection times on reverbs and delay times for this kind of thing are critical, some fraction of the musical pulse is always a good place to start, then I tend to play with that time to get the feel spot on. I may end up with a mix of 80+ tracks with over 200 vst instances, or only 2, I dont know whats going to happen until I start. I dont try and second guess it either, neither whould you. If there were a rule about this stuff (other than there are no rules) its that there are [i]no[/i] cookie cutter approaches that work, use your ears.

Then an awful lot of Zoom kit and other USB devices come into play.

No because its not got a network connection

£600 on ebay:- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alesis-HD-24-24-Track-Audio-Recorder-2-x-80GB-Hard-Drives-Optical-Cables-/280869900590?pt=UK_Recorders_Rewriters&hash=item416526912e Cant even find a price for a Marantz PDM580 though so I dont know what the target is to be honest