51m0n

cool isnt it! You dont need an ns10 or a ickle drum though, suspending almost any 6 to 10 inch driver in front of a kick will work....

As for the mic being pointin in an odd direction, there are recordings of note where just such a mistake has lead to tones that people have spent yearss trying to recreate. One that springs to mind is the guitar tone on Money For Nothing, apparently total accident, mic was knocked, it was pointing at the floor and they didnt realise until after the take, and try as they might they couldnt repeat the sound again.

Yup, gold spot toward the source on them. Odd. Can you post an example? WRT pup * mic, if you can suspend the mic from the dB in some way then its distance from the instrument will remain the same and you moving around will not cause phase issues to occur throughout the performance. Where abouts is the mic in relation to the db?

Seems a bit odd. Its not a particularly large room Embarrasing question time - are you sure you have the right side of the mic pointing at the bass? You wouldn't be the first or last person to make that mistake with an LDC (check the manual before you answer!). If you are inches away and the room small and is full of clutter I would expect the room to be in the recording but not dominating, unless you had the back of the mic facing the bass of course.... As for pickup + mic this is tricky for db as the instrument tends to move, and this can play havoc with phase against the pup, particularly when close micing.

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' timestamp='1321971728' post='1444939'] Err... I think not ! Punk rock all the way mate ... [/quote] Oh b**ls, sorry! [quote name='WHUFC BASS' timestamp='1321971728' post='1444939'] That's not a bad suggestion as it goes. I've never really tried much else on a bass cab, as the usual mantra that's trotted out is that [i]kick drum mic = bass frequency response that other mics can't get[/i]. As you say, a flatter mic would give you more eq options and any loss of bass response is easily made up when eq'ing. [/quote] With all due respect that is utter nonsense. Look at the frequency plots for:- [url="http://www.akg.com/mediendatenbank2/psfile/datei/38/D1124055c25c068d6.pdf"]AKG D112[/url] (typical kick mic) [url="http://heilsound.com/pro/products/pr40/productsheet.pdf"]Heil PR40 (broadcast vocal mic utilising neodymium magnet tech)[/url] [url="http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=shure%20sm98&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CGwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shure.com%2Fidc%2Fgroups%2Fpublic%2Fdocuments%2Fwebcontent%2Fus_pro_sm98_ug.pdf&ei=NRDDTp6EPIuT8gPaveCGCw&usg=AFQjCNGaFeiPpWmLVZDxF5INu6orDcM-Uw&cad=rja"]ElevtroVoice RE20 (old school broadcast mic)[/url] [url="http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=shure%20sm98&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CGwQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.shure.com%2Fidc%2Fgroups%2Fpublic%2Fdocuments%2Fwebcontent%2Fus_pro_sm98_ug.pdf&ei=NRDDTp6EPIuT8gPaveCGCw&usg=AFQjCNGaFeiPpWmLVZDxF5INu6orDcM-Uw&cad=rja"]Shure SM98 (condenser capsule as used by Flea live)[/url] [url="http://www.audixusa.com/docs/specs_pdf/d4.pdf"]Audix D4[/url] (modern dynamic, not specifically a kick mic, but 'capable' in bass territory) The D112 has no better capabilities wrt bass than any on that list. The SM98 is arguably the flattest down there (difficult to be sure as the frequency response doesnt appear right down to 20Hz though). The D112 has no magical abilities with bass then, just a built in pre eq, with a mid range cut. Add prximity effect to that bass lift and you get very bassy sounds out of them, but not so much sub bass. Hence the use of speakers wired up to mic inputs slapped right in front of a kick to get the sub, (see the [url="http://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical-instruments/drums/accessories/lowfreq/skrm100/?mode=model"]Yamaha SubKick[/url])

Its a tough one Bilbo, but the truth may be, go find, or make a better sounding room. How big is the room you are recording in, and what kind of work have you dont to control the acoustics in there?

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' timestamp='1321966496' post='1444841'] Thanks for the info 51m0n. Some useful pointers there. I usually use a combination of Audix D6 Kick Drum mic and a direct signal from my Trace Elliot's DI output. This signal is always pre-eq so I'm just getting the flat raw bass sound. I usually combine the two and as you mention, once the phase has been checked, I usually get some pretty decent results. I'm with you on the SM57 for guitar cabs. I just don't think there's a better mic that does it. Especially not for the price. [/quote] Yes but you are recording reggae, and in that case the huge boost of low end, coupled with your lack of anything much to boost at 4KHz will make this seem fine. A different genre would work a lot less well. There is nothing you have going on there that you couldnt choose to do at mix time with a different (flatter) mic, and if the sound is working for in context then thats superb, you are eqing with the mic rather than after a mic pre. I still maintain that within a mix you may well find that a less eq'ed mic would give your more options, some of which could sound even better. Just a thought....

Try a Cascade Fathead ribbon with a Lundahl transformer on a guitar cab (or an even nicer ribbon if you can get one), absolutely ace, very often nicer (esp in the top end) than a 57, but the two together can be killer too.

As an aside, if you are after that super tight lean 70's funk kick drum sound and cant afford a Neuman U47, try a 57 or 58 in there, you can get scary close....

[quote name='WHUFC BASS' timestamp='1321963956' post='1444807'] I'm intrigued ! Please tell me more. What mics do you normally use for mic'ing up bass amps ? [/quote] Simple point of this is that each microphone has its own frequency response, think of it like a fixed built in eq on the signal coming into it. Mics have these eqs built in to them specifically to help them achieve certain things, none more than Kick mics, which tend to have massively cut mids and boosted low and and also around 4KHz. If you apply the same eq curve to your kick and your bass then come mix time you will struggle toi get a really good seperation between the two instuments in the mix compared to if they dont shre the same eq (ie different mics). It doesnt mean that you cant wrap the bass sound around the kick to make them sound like two halves of the same whole (look up "common fate") at all, it means you have the choice in how you do that come mix down. You cannot add back that which you have taken away, you could try, with an eq, to fight the natural eq of the mic, but you wont absolutely match the curve of the mic eq (well its so unlikely as to be never), and in doing so you will add noise. Better not to take it away when tracking (see above post about pre-eq) at all, but sculpt at mix down. Furthermore, the most important part of bass guitar in a mix is the low mid, this holds the warmth, the punch, the pitch info (for all that the fundamental is an octave lower), removing that will make the bass [i]tend[/i] to be harder to discern. Should that be the right thing for the mix then go at it with an eq in the context of the mix, not with a mic in the context of the tracking. I like to use a Heil PR-40, Electro voice Re-20 or similar on bass instruments. Both work great on kick and bass, even at the same time, since they leave you to eq the instruments as you need to fo rthe mix at mix down, they dont massively paint you into a corner. I have succesfully used all manner of dynamic mics on bass alongside a DI, I use the DI to provide the deep bass to low mid, and then filter it out and the mic in for the mids, and upper mids where the player/rig/timbre requires it. An SM57 is perfectly capable of doing this, although sennheiser 421s is gorgeous for this as well! As for guitar cabs, you will struggle to beat a decent ribbon mic and an SM57 up close with a good LDC further back in the room IME. As always phase checking is an absolute must.

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1321960836' post='1444767'] Do you mean pre eq processing is fine? I agree it can be fine but if you mess it up then there's no going back hence why it isn't usually recommended [/quote] Doh! Yeah, thats right, pre-eq, what a numpty. There are two ways of looking at all this. Its a philosophical thing. If you are recording the whole band together you can really work the room the sounds, the individual elements to get them really heading where you need them to go at the point of tracking. Especially if you are going to mix as well. Eq as you need to, print effects to their own tracks, Whatever. You need a great deal of skill, foresight and experience to not make a mess of it I agree, but a perfectly tracked session is one where you come to mix and just put all the faders up and bam its done. It rarely if ever really happens, but I have read of mix engineers who have been blown away by how close the tracking got to exactly that. If you are not a skilled tracking engineer then this process is likely to leave you painted into a corner you cant escape from come mix time. And its not a pleasant place to be.

Not to mention the cabinets' internal bracing and dampening, the quality of the cossover (assuming there is a tweeter in there) the nature of the driver (the circumference is a tiny tiny part of the whole story here, Alex Clabber is the man when it comes to this kind of detail, believe me!)

Reaper isnt free, its just very cheap ($60 IIRC), and it runs on Mac as well as PC32 & 64 bit native. New strings are the way to go for almost all situations bar Motown and some reggae (although try a new set of flatwouinds and just use a really nice filter to take out the top, you will get a better sound 9 times out of 10 in the final mix, honest). Post processing eq is fine, if you really know what you are doing. A section on proper eq use (cut first, cut narrow, boost wide etc) would be really good, it mystifies most people how to use a real parametric eq. The fact is for surgical cutting of the pants part of a sound a big ole analogue eq isnt a patch on a good vst eq, but for adding that something sweet and broad a good analogue eq is just fantastic (Pultecs are still traded for mega money for a reason). Finally - dont get me started on how much I dislike using kick drum mics on bass and the kick again (and why its generally a bad idea IME & IMO) - its boring for us all, and will no doubt get everyone all upset again. But it is valid nevertheless especially in a studio....

I very much doubt it right now...

Heat cold cycle on the metal doesnt help make it last any longer either. Back in the day I was into boiling them, but they would become more liable to break than if just left. Since moving over to meths I havent had any issues.

Much better off soaking them in meths for a couple of days, has at least as much effect and doesnt expose the core to water, so far less likely to start it oxidising. I have a few sets of DRs that are over 3 years old now and still sound like they are about a week old, I just rotate the sets in my tube of meths and keep a set on that are fresh enough to keep me happy. Saved me an absolute fortune....

Bad techinique will cause you to compensate in other ways which will eventually take its toll in the form of a real injury. You need to exert significantly more pressure with db than bg- I fairly regularly have a quick go on Plux's and am staggered to be able to find any notes on it at all -that extra pressure is the clue that you could hurt yourself. Get a decent local teacher to give you ac ouple of lessons and you will proceed from there far faster and more safely than if you just have go. There are all sorts of tips for staying in tune, and not hurting yourself that they will give you straitgh away. Plux is playing the Brighton Centre with the Brighton Music Service Big Band in December, he's really starting to swing with that big ole thing, sounds fantastic!

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1321700548' post='1442069'] Completely bonkers, but then I love a touch of eccentricity! Don't know how much use this will be, but a few years back I saw The Pretenders at a smallish gig in Kings Cross. Adam Seymour produced, to my ears, an exceptional 12 string guitar sound, but having just looked at his rig there was no chorus, just vibrato and reverb. [url="http://vintage.guitargeek.com/rigview/332/"]http://vintage.guita...om/rigview/332/[/url] Obviously going to be very different for bass but food for thought none the less. If you do get it up and running, remember from a previous thread, I have a local shop with a reasonably priced copy of Neilsen's guitar!! [/quote] The Alesis quadraverb has a great sounding chorus in it, alongside, reverb, delay, leslie, eq and I cant remember what else. The chorus could certainly well have been a part of the patch he was using, as well as some careful detuning in the pitch shifting.

Chorus is a delay based modulation effect, in order to make it thicker set its delay longer, too long and it will sound like your octave up strings are actually out of time though. Set the modulation either slow and deeper, or fast and shallow - I'd expect the fast and shallow to be able to addd some real 'shimmer' to the sound. Dont overdo the overdrive on the guitar amp, but a little bit of it should help hide the pitch shift artifacts and bring out the harmonics beautifully. Dont biamp, after all a 12 string bass has full range bottom strings.

Well if you leave the compressor on all the time it will be effectively boosting the average gain overall and thats what you need in this case. Whether it has a circuit that automatically attempts to make up the difference between the amount of gain reduction it has added on average and the average input signal level or whether there is a manual knob to do it is irrelevant. I like to have all the controls, a lot of people dont - its too fiddly, I may have to learn how to use it properly, not enough time, are the usual objections at the level of pedal compressors (ie often pretty average sounding circuits). I still maintina that i fyou learn how to use one a cheaper fully feature compressor will serve you better than a more expensive less fully featured compressor. So recommendations from me would be:- Markbass Compressore (vari-mu tube compressor - [url="http://www.ovnilab.com/reviews/markbass.shtml"]review here[/url]) Joe Meek FloorQ (opto compressor) Of interest if you cant face learning how to do this 'properly' as it were:- Effectrode PC-2A is about as good as you could hope for, fairly heavily based on an LA2A, should do the trick ([url="http://www.ovnilab.com/reviews/effectrode.shtml"]review here[/url]).

A compressor can definitely do this assuming it has a make-up gain stage that allows you to bring the level up after the compression. I use a compressor for exactly this reason, set well they are almost inaudible, but make all the difference when it comes to getting that legato tapping bit to keep up with the band. Better yet, you dont have to remember to kick it on, like you would a boost pedal, at the relevant moment, as well as moving your hands for the tapping part etc etc etc all in a millisecond whilst 'rocking out' with the band for the punters visual benefit.

[quote name='gt4ever' timestamp='1321521327' post='1440022'] was the day before when they played 6 BSSM numbers. M.E.N. Arena, Manchester, UK 2011-11-14 Set list Disc 1 01 Monarchy of Roses 02 Dani California 03 Charlie 04 Look Around 05 Otherside 06 If You Have To Ask 07 Can't Stop 08 The Adventures of Rain Dance Maggie 09 Blood Sugar Sex Magik 10 Me & My Friends 11 Factory of Faith 12 Under the Bridge 13 Higher Ground 14 Californication 15 By the Way 16 Chad & Mauro Jam 17 Sir Psycho Sexy 18 They're Red Hot 19 Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere 20 Give It Away 21 Final Jam the 15th was more cali stuff monarchy dani tell me baby scar tissue look around she's only 18 can't stop rain dance maggie hard to concentrate right on time did i let you know under the bridge higher ground californication by the way Drum Jam Around the World Soul to Squeeze Give it away End Jam [/quote] They did Soul To Squeeze live that is my favourite song and bass line of all time. B****r....

Plux may be able to make it - not sure....

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1321462408' post='1439471'] Ha I was wrong all along there is a mic on the very top left 10" speaker I can see it on one of the Youtube clips!! [/quote] How about that! Well there you go, tiny mics are harder to spot exclusive Top bit of sleuthery getting that cleared up though, hats (deerstalkers in this case) off to you for your persistence! Had another look at your original piccie, and the only cone in the set that wasnt completely showing was the one with the tiny mic on it - how unfair is that!