51m0n

Understood, but I consider less full featured compressors as an evil to be fought at all times. I wouldn't be so averse to a 2 or 3 control compressor if they were properly and clearly marked controls (not things like 'glimmer' or 'compression' that are at best unclear and at worst marketing bollocks) and if they had comprehensive metering (so at least 6 LEDs switchable between input/output/gain reduction in dBs, and even better if you could 'zoom' the dB scale, never seen that in a hardware meter though). Anything less and they are unfit for purpose, they are a 'magick' box that is only perceived to be doing something when they are doing so much as to actually damage the player's experience. I have lost count of the number of times I've heard "compressors are rubbish, they crush all my dynamics", which is utter nonsense, what that actually means is "compressors are rubbish, because I can't hear them working until I am doing bad stuff to my playing experience, and I don't understand why". Harsh but true.

@Jus Lukin For sure, we aren't really disagreeing, I just wanted to point out that although the shape of the waveform could be seen to be the same at any one moment, the nature of the way the amplitude is controlled definitely changes the shape of the waveform over time, in doing so changing the frequency/amplitude curve throughout, ergo changing the waveform itself to all intents and purpose. This is damnably subtle stuff mind, and I agree also that the manner in which these things are achieved are truly different, yet to a large degree (especially in the case of subtle tube saturation) the differences in how the dynaimc range changes are made can be largely ignored, and if you ignore the saturation element then the results wrt to dynamic range are extremely similar. But I'm picking at nits because, well ,compressor thread: the rules are I have to unintentionally fosters at least one person off by being overly pedantic or not quite agreeing. Its all meant as fun discussion though, promise

Equate the behaviour regarding dynamic range of a very fast hard limiter (ratio >20:1) with a lowish threshold to a fuzz, and a soft knee compressor with a very low ratio, a medium fast attack, and a very low threshold to a tube amp. Clearly compressors/limiters are not producing the same levels of saturation (an awful lot do produce some levels of saturation at certain settings though, certainly both an La-2a and an 1176 add saturation artifacts, that's why they are 'magic boxes'), and understanding the effect on the dynamic range of these different types of effect, and it is absolutely true that tube amps change dynamic range in much the same ways as compressors can do, and in a more extreme way fuzzes change dynamic range in much the same ways as limiters do. The saturation effects are the differences, and their psycho-acoustic effect makes what tube amps do much more obvious to us. But they both 'compress' the dynamic range. The term is an over simplification, but the result (with respect to dynamic range) is very much the same. Otherwise mastering limiters couldn't get you to within 3dB Crest for an entire track. Crest is the measure of the difference between the peak loudness of a track and the average loudness of a track, the mastering wars were all about getting Crest as low as possible. Overdo this and you rob tracks of punch, dynamics and ultimately emotional content, plus it sounds stinky poo. Didn't stop marketing boys always opting for the louder master for years though, louder almost always equates to better unless you are trained to know the truth of what you are hearing, or have metering to help you. For instance when you apply serious compression to a track you have to change your reverb/delay levels to avoid the track disappearing down a well, that is because quieter parts of the signal are more loudly perceived as a result of the compression, make up gain make them louder compared to the rest of the sound that goes over the threshold of the compressor, the ration of reverb to dry (typically louder) signal changes, a lot. Same with a simple bass signal. Compression will bring out artifacts in your playing that you otherwise wont hear, poor muting, string squeaks etc, whilst 'containing' other issues (thuds on muted strings as you play) dependant on which contain the most energy in the signal as a whole and what the particular compressor side chain is best at 'hearing', or set up to hear, hence the use of low pass filters on compressor side chains to retain dynamics. Compression and limiting give you vastly more control over the effect in terms of envelope and transient manipulation, for better or worse, and this is where they shine. But in terms of dynamic range there are many similarities in simple terms.

This is, in fact, absolutely not the case in any setting of a real world compressor circuit that I can imagine. Sorry. A compressor does not turn the volume of the entire signal down - that is far too simplistic a way of thinking about compression, it is not a thing to eb considered in a given moment, it is a thing that is all about the time domain at the milli/micro-second level. Once it starts being triggered it begins to act upon the input signal. And at some point after it stops it being triggered it stops changing the amplitude of the sound that triggered it. The attack control allows some of the signal through, before the compressor starts to work, the point at which the compressor has turned the signal down by the ratio that the ratio is set to occurs some time after that. With an attack of 20ms and a ratio of 4:1 the compressor will take 20ms to have achieved the majority of that ratio (but not actually necessarily all of it). The manner in which that turning down of the volume occurs (commonly called the attack curve) varies hugely between different settings and different circuits (hard/soft knee, FET vs optical vs VCA vs Vari-Mu vs digital). Likewise setting a release time of 200ms means that 200ms after the threshold is crossed (going below the threshold) a percentage of the level will have returned (though not necessarily the full 100%) the way this returns is rarely a straight line, optical compressors sound like they do precisely because the release curve is, well, really curved! They initially return the volume very quickly, but this speed tapers off over time, the light source does not dim in a simple 1:1 relationship to the input signal. So the compression doesn't. The make-up gain works over the entire signal though, drastically changing the ratio of the transient to the sustain phase of the input signal. Many many compressors on the market also exhibit saturation qualities, the 1176 is often quoted as 'sprinkling some kind of fairy dust' on the sound, especially at extreme settings - guess what, its saturating, which adds harmonic overtones. Like a tube amp, but in a different way. Almost all 'tube' compressor pedals (not the Markbass Compressore), use a tube not to control the compression (a Vari-mu circuit) but as a preamp to a VCA compressor, guess what the tube does in these compressors? It saturates if you drive it hard. This makes people think the compressor is 'doing some magicks', when its not the compressor part of the circuit as much as the tube preamp to the compressor. The compressor does help make the additional harmonics sound a little louder in the overall resultant output signal, by removing some dynamic range. The result is a very very different wave form envelope over time. So much so that you can definitely change the timbre of a sound using compression (really fast attack, ratio about 8:1 or above, threshold medium low, catching all the sound, about a constant 3-6dB of GR will effectively make any percussive bright transient disappear, the entire sound is now perceived as darker). As soon as a compressor compresses it changes the wave form, with a hard enough limiter you get clipping, you can see it in recordings! Some digital limiters are designed to digitally clip (sounds gash to me but what do I know). No tube amp or analogue circuit anywhere can match the utter brutality of digitally clipping, it is the hardest limiting we can achieve. Every single digital audio recorder with an input gain knob and a loud enough input level can be forced to digitally clip. It just sounds stinky poo. And hard limits dynamic range. This I agree with 100%. And in the way people say tube amps compress the signal, that is exactly what they are referring to (well I am). The result is, you get less dynamic range, however within the less dynamic range you get to vary the saturation level with your playing dynamics instead, which just so happens to be very musical, or Mr Gilmour would be just another geezer saturating his amps.

<Blush>

The Stella, as a learning aid, since it is ridiculously full featured...

Reason this is a great pedal comp to learn with? Look at that lovely Gain Reduction meter. Oh my, what a beauty! That and a ratio variable from 0 to infinite. With a similar threshold range. Christ you can even play with the knee and the attack release curves! If someone wants to really really learn about compression then this is the stinky poo. Assuming its signal to noise ratio is decent (no reason it wouldn't be) and it doesn't play nasty with your tone (its supposed to be pretty transparent) then this would be a killer pedal for someone looking to really learn how compression works and what it can do. If you don't already know your beans regarding setting up a compressor then you are not going to get this one figured out in 10 minutes during a soundcheck. As someone who really understands what compressors do, and what the controls are giving you as options I would be willing to bet good money I could set this up for anyones particular needs in under 5 minutes. Easier than setting up a Joe Meek compressor, or a Diamond Pro for me (because all the controls are labelled with exactly what I would expect). Also just to clear something up the Threshold is correct, anti-clockwise is the lowest threshold, i.e. it causes the most signal to be compressed. This is actually the correct way to do it, pedal comps get this wrong all the time, because they label the control 'compression' or whatever and then have to switch around wiring on the pot - drives me bonkers!

Teehee, you should hear the rig matey, last rehearsal was such a blast, gobs of power, and so so clean (nomnomnom). But I digress, I'm excited to see something that is so well specced, if I had any say I would move the ickle switches and knobs well away from the main footswitch though - I am far too likely to utterly trash it all in a stompy moment of madness - other than that it looks like a great clean sounding compressor; I like those LEDs a lot! The bigger version really floats my boat though, because I like having proper control of attack and release (honestly once you 'get' compression you start to realise that the real power is in the attack/release curves).

derrière! There I was happy to have determined that I need to be getting an ovnifx smoothie to replace my rack comp moving forward. Now the bigger one of these really does look rather like my personal wet dream of a compressor (if only it was optical, that would be it, kidney selling time)....

Yeah, its killer, or its higher spec sibling the Babyface Pro, which is also superb!

Every bass is different. The output is different, the way you play them will be a bit different, the envelope of each note is different. Hence you need different compression settings for different basses to sound the same. Or in extreme cases a different compressor entirely...

Personally I have used a rack compressor (a Focusrite compounder) for years and years, but then I had a very specific set of requirements with my rig that it helped out with a lot. New rig now, may even ditch the always on compressor completely, and get a pedal comp for some very overt compression fx in a few distinct spots rather than the always on comp set up I've enjoyed for the last 10 years. In general the single biggest weakness of 90% of compressor pedals is a lack of serious metering: by definition you cant hear compression work when its transparent, unless you are in the mix, in which case you are playing your bass, not setting up a compressor! If you want really transparent compression then I recommend looking at parallel compression, or anything with a blend knob. Parallel compression allows you to 'get away with' heavier compression settings without them becoming so obvious, its all about psychoacoustics, it also can act more like an expander than a compressor. Most compressors with an LPF dont compress the bottom of the signal at all, anything under the LPF frequency is not compressed and so you have to bear this in mind, they are great for transient shaping but not so good at taming wayward low end. Multicomp pedals are the solution to this, but the truth is you need a huge amount of parameter control and metering to get the most out of them - or some kind of computer interface (and therefore a digital pedal) - and masses of experience. Things like the spectracomp are fine, but unless you really know your beans dont go fiddling with the internals. Personally if I want an obvious effected compressed sound then I love optical compressors, they have this gorgeoues bwoooOOP sound to the front of the note when set right, its so funky I love it to death, but its definitely not an always on thing! My favourite is the Joe Meek FloorQ btw. For an always on compressor I like to emulate the compression of a tube amp (not the saturation though), I have explained exactly how I set this up on a bunch of other threads so a search will help you, but basically its a very very low ratio (1.3:1) and a threshold set so its always on, just (this ends up being a very low threshold indeed), attack slow enough to let the transient through, a bit of low pass, a medium/fast release ( I play a lot of 16ths) and make up gain to match on/off output when digging in. This way you cant really feel it, but its always helping atad to even things out, your dynamics are unchanged in the main. I've even run this in parallel with a much faster attack too, it stays really transparent but fattens up the front of the note a bit.

Can, worms etc The key question to ask yourself is, what do I want this compressor to do. If you want a lot of compressor reviews then go here:- http://www.ovnilab.com/ BTW the ovnifx smoothie is a fantastic compressor:- If you want to hear a lot of compressors then this is a good place to start (although it doesnt do all the very best, it does a lot of good ones):-

It's just one more piece in the puzzle. Clearly a tweeter adds loads of top end extension too, but as well as that it helps reproduce the transient more accurately. If that's a sound you dig then it's important 🙂

The transient part of the note occurs right at the start. It is the initial blast of energy put into the string. Very often it is not truly pitched at all, being the sound of the percussive strike you give the string with your finger, pick, or thumb or whatever. It is louder than the following phases, obviously if you think about it, and can be over in just a few milliseconds. However it is a very important part of the timbre of the entire note. It alone can lend a note a bright tone verses a dark tone, psychoacoustics band all that. Cabs without tweeters tend to struggle with fast transients, slapping Vs Fingerle has a much faster and larger transient. This is how you can use a limiter to change the perceived brightness of a note for instance, it can significantly reduce the level of the transient without changing the level of the rest of the note...

Yep, you either like the sound coming out of the lead or you want something different! Guess I'm lucky in that the flatter the better, but I really like a cab that stays as flat as possible and extends as low as my bass goes. I don't want a bump in the bass end or low mids, I don't want a scoop in the mid range or over hyped sizzly top end. Even more important I don't want a cab that can't reproduce fast transients well. If I have all of that in my rig then I can apply whatever I like in terms of EQ, transient shaping, spacial FX, whatever I fancy and it will produce what I expect. It really helps that to my ears my bass sounds absolutely killer, especially in the mix....

Actually I think Mark is better at sales than almost anyone else I have met. Unfortunately for my wallet Firstly, he knows his gear, secondly he is very very adept at 'reading' his customer (well me anyway) and having a really good idea of what might float their boat, and lastly, and frankly most crucially, he just lets you faff about for an hour with a few choice items until you're hopelessly in lust for one of the precious pieces of GASeous lovelies.... Ahem, sorry, where was I? Oh yeah, by that point I'm entirely undone, as is my wallet.... Its pitiful really

First off, my profile pic looks exactly like me, obviously. Secondly, you got out off bassdirect having spent less than a grand? What foul majick is this!! How? I am so glad I live a 2 and a half hour drive away! I remember it when it was literally a shed in a field, it's luxurious nowadays 😁 Don't know about the two younguns but Mark has always been a top chap to me and has some of the nicest kit under one roof anywhere...

Enjoy... https://theproaudiofiles.com/compression-and-timbre/

I am, after all, the Grand Wizard of the Knights Martial a follower of Khaos and believer in getting my revenge in first

Nah, I'd probably be so jealous I applied a pitch shifter to the vocalist's monitor send Mwahahahahahahahaaaaahhh!!!!

Nice office that

XR18 Jack, you know how complex my band's sound is and the XR18 has been an absolute pleasure. Real world points to note: Definitely get an external WiFi router, an old Netgear hobbies will be fine. Better than the internal. Get a decent tablet, if the tablet is woeful it will make mixing very tough cos the UI will lag significantly behind all the info it is trying to display. Do at least a couple of tech rehearsals to figure out what you are going to do mix wise and monitor wise. This is serious kit with bucket loads of power and options, you won't be able to get it right on a gig winging it!! Whatever you end up with back it up to a laptop. It will change at each venue. You can do a 'soundcheck' in 10 minutes tops at a venue and have killer FOH and up to 6 monitor mixes. Awesome bit of kit, ours was closer to 600, if it died I would buy another tomorrow to replace it.

It's testament to that weak derrière Ampeg actually 😉

Yep 😁