51m0n

VPF at 2 O'clock!!! Holy cow thats insane!

[quote name='Linus27' post='1341031' date='Aug 15 2011, 07:23 PM']So, I plugged the Stingray into the MB combo and turned the bass and treble dials to off or flat. I then set all the EQ on the MB combo to flat and I must say, it sounded horrible. Dull, muddy, flt, lifeless and really middy or nasaly as I call it The first thing I did was dial the Mid Low down to about 10 O Clock and this really helped but it still sounded dull and flat. So I dialed about 1/5 of treble on the Stingray dial and it added a bit of sparkle. I continued to try different settings on the combo and I finally settled with the following, MB Combo Bass: 12 o' Clock (FLAT) Mid Low: 10 o' Clock Mid High: 12 o' Clock (FLAT) Treble: 12 o' Clock (FLAT) VLE Filter: OFF VPF Filter: 2 o' Clock Stingray Volume: Full Treble: 1/5th on Bass: Off (FLAT) This gave me a smooth warm sound with a bit of sparkle. Its still not perfect and lacks a bit of character and energy but its a start I guess. What I did notice is that when I plugged my Jazz in with these settings but turned the VPF Filter down to around 11 o'Clock then it sounded totally amazing. Lots of punch and growl. Very annoying as I am trying to force myself to use the Stingray rather than the Jazz but with the Jazz sounding this good, its making it very hard to play the Stingray [/quote] Was this in a mix at war volume, or just at home in tthe practice room at sane levels? All that annoying honk will translate to presence in a mix you see. Or rather a lot of it will! Stingrays can be tricky, I've always found a decent jazz with new strings a doddle to get to sound nice. You can do worse than listen to some Bernard and hear how he got Stingrays to be fat and punchy as hell, thats where they really sound the beans for me. Still cant play one though - too heavy and the pickup is the wrong place after all the years spent playing basses with a jazz pup config. Keep fiddling about, a little upper mid may be just the ticket in a mix to get some of that clarity back, careful though!

[quote name='Killerfridge' post='1336366' date='Aug 11 2011, 01:13 PM']B (guitarist mix) does sound horrible, and to make it worse, either our guitarist or vocalist has just uploaded it to our Facebook site yesterday along with a message stating that it was finished . I have since deleted both message and recording. I have a feeling I may have to take them off the admin list for the page We picked the studio purely from convenience, as well as price. No, we hadn't heard anything by him, although some big(ish) names had used him before. It was also a bit of an experiment to see whether a 'professionally' recorded and mixed track would sound significantly better than the stuff we recorded on our own. We were there for the mixing, but due to time constraints (we had to go before we'd finished a couple of the tracks) we didn't have time to hear the mastered tracks, nor retrieve the original recordings - we will be picking the originals up at a later date. The track that was mixed entirely by the engineer sounds atrocious; I may have to upload that for you to all hear! During the mixing I pointed out that cymbals sounded strange, but neither he or the guitarist could hear it - I asked him to take [b]the gating off the overheads[/b], but they both said it sounded fine, so I got overruled. I think this was down to the engineer being deaf, and the guitarist assuming that he knew what he was doing. I also wasn't too keen on the vocals sounding like they had been recorded underwater, but I assumed that was to do with the studio setup, and not the actual track, because when I asked to dial it back a bit, the reverb was taken down by one notch. And also, yes, studio engineer who thinks he's a producer, rather than an actual producer. Thankfully I have access to some willing producers who will have a crack at the original recordings in September . Also, what sort of EQ-ing might you recommend for C (home recording), as it is currently the only one I can play with? Cheers guys, you've all been a great help [/quote] Why the hell were they gating the overheads though??? That is just daft.....

Nice one! You guys are going to have to think about some kind of air con in summer though aren't you?

The SuperTwelve T is going to blow you away. Way better than a Compact IMO, one of the best cabs I've ever heard.

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1340444' date='Aug 15 2011, 11:07 AM']With the amp, the only problem with the LM2/3 is the low mid is set above the boomy area, but I think leaving the amp flat apart from a smidge of bass off is your best bet.[/quote] This is why I went for an sa450, sweepable mids are vital for me to be able to get the eq right, and I dont care if the amp was twice the size again (though not the weight!) I'd still go for it over the LMII/III as a result. From the MB site though:- EQUALIZATION LOW center frequency: 40 Hz; level: ±16 dB LOW MID center frequency: 360 Hz, level: ±16 dB HIGH MID center frequency: 800 Hz, level: ±16 dB HIGH center frequency: 10 kHz, level: ±16 dB VPF (Variable Pre-shape Filter) center frequency 380 Hz (cut) VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator) frequency range 250 Hz-20 kHz (cut) Now 360Hz may seem awfully high for boom, but it is mud city central, and if you cut the mud you can live with more bass (acoustics permitting)....

[quote name='Linus27' post='1340433' date='Aug 15 2011, 10:59 AM']51m0n, thanks that was certainly not tedious but very helpful. One point that I find interesting is the part about dropping the low mid to reduce the boom. I find I have to do this with pretty much all basses on my MarkBass to get a tone I am happy with. My ears really do not like this dial set to flat. The other point is you say set the EQ on the Stingray flat. However, what is flat on a 2EQ Ray as it just has a tone and bass dial and no indent like a 3EQ Ray has? Is flat on a 2EQ Ray with both dial turned half way?[/quote] Low Mid, mate, its the hardest to get 'right'. Too little and you have no warmth, too much (by even a dB) and you are getting properly muddy. I'm supoer finicky about this area too, it has to be exactly right! THing is when you have 2 different eq cicuits they can make some pretty complex curves, and you can get reinforcement in unexpected ares as a result, so the mud can come on really fast (as can the clank). Definitely figure out where 0 is on the ray, see if you can go from there, if it is boost only then turning it off is going to leave you feeling all empty inside for a while, dont worry, the amps eq is more than powerful enough to work around that, dont feel the urge to go straight back to halfway on both. If it is a boost only circuit then I think that bass & treble set at half with some VPF would be a real thudding clankfest with no discernable pitch very quickly in a mix! <Yoda>Powerful is the eq you use......</Yoda>

I havent read the posts imbetween, but from your OP I'd say A=studio, B=guitarist (btw you're right, its way overcompressed and harsh, sounds pants!), so C must be yours, it sounds pretty good as a starter, certainly better than the studios attempt. I think C needs some added top, its still a little dull. The problem will be that the cymbals are rather splashy, and may end up over powering things. Having said that SC is pretty poo in terms of audio quality, so on the wav that may sound fine. I'm unsure fomr your OP whether these were just mixed at the studio or tracked there as well, either way if you have the stems they could be almost certainly be remixed to get a better result, assuming you have enough tracks and not too much spill.

The one with the best metering and most complete control set.....

Cripes, no rehearsal at all? Rather you than me - and welcome to BC, nice to have you!

I know this is a tad tedious, and I dont want ot teach granny to suck eggs, but it surely is as dependant on the room, the strings (age, brand etc) and playing style as much as the cab, the tweeter attenuator setting etc etc. Not to mention the volume at which they are playing, which will have a huge effect on your perception of the sound, and almost certainly be different between bands/players/environments (Fletcher-Munsen curves and all that). So just some settings that have worked for someone else may be a million miles away from what you need. I suggest you try the following:- Set the bass and amp eq and filters all flat. Set the gain so the blue light never quite comes on. Set the master so that the bass (however nasal it seems compared to your usual sound) is at the right level in the mix. Cut the areas you dont like first rather than boost what you do like, try and stay on the amp eq as much as you can, mainly because its not subject to the vagiaries of battery power supply, but also because you want to use this to get your baseline tone, and the less you use the bass eq the more you have left to tweak at that end during a gig. Reset the gain control and then main volume as you make any change. Rules of thumb:- If you are struggling with clacky top end, roll up the VLE and see if that tames it, if you dont like that, try dipping te HF level on the eq instead, the two are very different in how they work. If you use the VPF you will very quickly (ie above 9 O'clock IME) get into too much sub, too much clacky top, so back that right off if you suffer in those areas! If you are struggling with boom then the low eq on the MB heads in quesiton is down at 40Hz, ie right down low. However a lot of what is perceived as boom can be up around 100Hz, so always take a moment to drop that a tad (ie the lo mid) instead and see if that fits the problem area better. With practice you can get the whole process down to about 2 minutes. Be sure to listen with your ears and not your eyes, it doesnt matter where the knobs end up, its the resultant sound that counts! More often than not if you go through this procedure in a full band mix you will end up using a lot less eq than normal and get a far better sound (IME). One other point, if you use the stingray eq to boost somewhere during a gig, watch that clip light on the amp!

Reaper 4.01 (on a Mac no less) Has superb built in vsts (no instruments really though) MyDrumset is a really nice drumset vsti (thats free)

Reaper 4.01 just released, (yes it works on a Mac!) about £25, best software bang for the buck out there.

Yes. Totally...

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiceeee....

[quote name='Skol303' post='1328748' date='Aug 5 2011, 02:20 PM']^ Nice, I like this idea. ^ And this one! As you guessed, it's the dubstep synth that's currently dominating the mix, so thanks again for the tips on how to "tame" it. Less itsy-bitsy tweaking and more brutal chopping is going to be my new approach to this particular track! Thanks again for the help - and also to Rimskidog for the tip about EQ'ing with everything in the mix. Great stuff guys, superb advice much appreciated.[/quote] No worries, and Rimskidog is the don....

I prefer his stuff with Betty Davis...

Sledgehammer Fretless, pick, massive compression = one of the most awesome bass sounds of all time

[quote name='Skol303' post='1327364' date='Aug 4 2011, 04:44 PM']^ Superb! Many thanks 5im0n, really appreciate your input on this. I think I'm probably being to much of a "wuss" with my EQ'ing and gating, judging by your advice. Must admit I've been trying to balance everything - rather than being selective about what I can and can't lose altogether. I'll now approach this with a more 'ironed fisted' method, as you suggest! [PS: Nemesis the Warlock and ABC Warriors... I'm a big fan of those strips myself][/quote] No problem! Think of it like this, whatever you do you can always ease off a bit to get a more open sound, if what you are doing is really taking too much away. Oh, and cutting can be done way harder (more db) and way tighter (narrower Q) than boosting can before the result sounds plop. Espoecially in a mix. Oh yeah, another thing! Hi pass the offenders as high as you dare. Really, I know its bass, but a high pass filter at 45Hz is the least you can do to get rid of really subby issues and will leave all those lovelrly harmonics, your brain will apply those to pretty much any fundamental it hears giving the impression that the original sound is intact [i]alongside[/i] the actual fundamental. So, you're a bassist, which is the [i]dominant[/i] bass instrument in this mix? Distorted bass guitar (nope), kick (nope), or dub synth (almost certainly). So prioritise the low lows from the dub synth, the mids from the bass guitar, the kick should provide slap at around 4KHz and a healthy supportive whallop, in order to do which it must duck the other two (and hard). A good trick if you want the kick to really get noticed is to set a good 15ms of preattack on the compressor doing the ducking so the other instruments noticeably go away just before the kick turns up. In fact you can get a really cool almost pumping effect if you lengthen that and make it part of the groove. Be brutal as hell, those sounds are yours to control, so do it And yeah, Deadlock rocks (although I think Rogue Trooper is probably my all time favourite character from a comic).

I woudlnt change a thing in my sig....

Vicious complimetary eq. So listen to the kick, cut all the gash out of it (ALL of it, -20dB not a problem) Repeat through the bass stuff, the kick can usually take the heaviest eq though.. When you put them all together what combinations combine to bring back the mud (it is often the way the two tracks do and the other combinations dont so much). Now comes the 'art', with the tracks that are overlapping badly, you have to decide which one can lose that information at that frequency. Remember you dont need the fundamental (or even the second harmonic as often as not) for your brain to perceive bass, especially if something else is generating that bass. So go at the overlap with even more vigour, cut from only one out of any pair of signals that causes you pain. You decide which is the must have instrument at that frequency. Gate anything that rings too long (kick is a prime example) - be vindictive, forget sounding organic, you can always relax your iron fist later, but for now get everything totally tight sounding. Pre-emptive gate opening is really good for the fast transient sounds. Now think about what area of the waveforms need to be loudest. So the kick needs massive attack, and much less sustain, the bass can lose its attack for the kick, sidechain that out of the way with a compressor, too much may be just enough. Compress things to not just stop anything getting too out of shape dynamically, but also to cut wholes in the waveform where other instruments need to be strong. A well set up compressor can do wonders for this! Last point mud is more often around the low mid area (200-500Hz) rather than deep bass. Too much deep bass will cause your woofers to leap around and try and escape their enclosures, too much mud just sounds terrible.

[quote name='Al Heeley' post='1325848' date='Aug 3 2011, 04:40 PM']I think there's nothing punchier than a decent 4x10. I use Hartke XL 4 x 10 and a 1 x 12. The 4x10 is nearly as heavy as the peavey and its a pain dragging it around so I built a small wheeled trolley for it, now I just have to just lift it into the boot. Sounds better than the other cabs, pity you have to spend a lot more money than I can afford to get a good really lightweight one.[/quote] I can guarantee you that the Bareface SuperTwelve destroys that Harke cab for punch. I've compared them, and thats what happened. It wasn't any kind of surprise at all.

MB is like crack cocaine, you think you can kick it, but it just niggles in the back of your mind and one day when your guard is down you try one again somewhere, usually for free for the first couple of goes whilst they reestablish your GAS, and then BAM you're in over your head and in need of going cold turkey for a monthy or two to get over it all........

Found an old topic I made comparing the [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=99358&hl=supertwelve"]Bergantino ae410 and a SuperTwelve[/url] albeit driven by different amps, but playing the same music with the same signal chain, at VERY high volume, Alex chimes in about halfway through. It has some clips to listen to as well. May help you a bit....