51m0n

[quote name='ras52' post='1184823' date='Apr 1 2011, 02:53 PM']I've just finished reading this [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guerilla-Home-Recording-Studio-Leonard/dp/1423454464"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guerilla-Home-Reco...d/dp/1423454464[/url] as a prelude to getting back into the recording thang. The author generally advocates applying effects up front and "mixing as you go", principally because although you theoretically [i]can [/i]do it all later, in practice you'll be limited by CPU power etc. And of course you may prefer the sound of your outboard gear.[/quote] I'd disagree with that if you have a remotely modern PC. Even my rather antiquated work PC can run a 24+ track mixdown, and I use a lot eq's and dynamic processing and a couple of really full on reverbs and a killer delay as a minimum, add in tape saturation and gates, and so on and thats a lot of load by anyone's standars, yet I can do it all ITB with that machine. Furthermore, its trivial to run off some stems of heavy groups to work against and lighten the load whilst you are concentrating in a specific other area, and then switch everything back on for the big final render.

[quote name='BottomEndian' post='1184808' date='Apr 1 2011, 02:42 PM']Thanks for that. Much as I expected... and kind of good to hear, because I've got no spare wedge for any outboard now! I'd be tempted to stick a smidgeon of my TC Nova Dynamics pedal on my bass if I was desperate to capture "full" bass notes along with high harmonics (something it seems to do really nicely in multiband mode). It doesn't have the flexibility I'd really like it to... but it sounds class. Another thing I've noticed, coming back to the recording end of things after a while away... I've been playing with BFD to generate drums (and bloody great it is too). The thing is, I'm so used to hearing bleed on drum tracks that I'm mixing it in from BFD, only to gate it out again in the mix, just like I used to. Talk about making it hard for myself... [/quote] I know what you mean, but bleed makes drums sound real, I (being a very very cheap son of a #@~{) use [url="http://www.bluenoise.no/mydrumset.html"]BlueNoise MyDrumSet[/url] precisely because there is bleed on the tracks (its a nicely done free VSTi too). It can really help. It wasnt until I did some work with a pro drummer who ran his own pro studio that I learnt the importance of a bit of bleed, especially the way the kick 'activates' the snares on the snare drum, adds some top end to the kick too, you see. He has a beautiful Yamha Maple Custom, and its tuned absolutely bang on, incredibly easy to mix, bleed and all. Rather than gating hard I just try and knock 4 or 5 dB off with gates, maybe mopre if there will be a lot of compression on the kit after the fact.

With 24 bit there is no need to compress to tape, you can happily record with 6-12dB of head room, which pretty much guarantees there will be no transient lost. However that doesnt mean that you might not like to use some analogue (real) compression on the way into the digita domain, it may be a unit that you like the osund of even if the compression is very very light, or whatever. Whatever sounds better to you really. I routinely compress bass on the way in for instance, and use limiters when tracking drums to ensure that clipping wont occur, even with 6-12dB of headroom (especially hard to guarantee you wont get overs on drums, just ask Cheddatom!). However, the only thing to bear in mind is that if you compress it down to tape, you cant undo it later, so less is generally more... One other thing, a lot of nastier compressors add a tonne of noise (yes even rack ones, I had an LA Audio one that was utterly useless, so I sent that back), worse than well sorted tape by far! Multiple chained compression is a complettely reasonable thing to do, as is parallel compression, group and buss compression, all at the same time if need be to get the mix to work 'right'. Again remember that ratios are multipliers, so a 4:1 ratio followed by a 6:1 ratio is a 24:1 ratio (given the same threshold), so the more compressor stages you use the more careful you need to be not to crush the life out of the source material. Some gentle 'glue' compression on the 2-buss is a must for a good mix for me, and that is regardless of limiting and maximising and all that nonsense.

I'd suggest a Bareface SuperTwelve, cos I've head one powered by an LH500 just decimate a Marshal half stack and loud drummer in a rehearsal room. Mega punchy rig that, and very clean, super easy to use too (very simple eq). Not the lightest amp in the word, but nothing like hawling trace kit about. If you absolutely had to have ultra lightweight amp I'd say the same cab run off an MB head and is equally all out impressive. That cab weighs virtually nothing, and has a built in trolley wheels and handle too, its just a brilliant bit of design for anyone with a bad back. Highly recommended....

Roscoe Century Standard 6 About as light weight and playable a 6 as you will find, sounds killer....

I think it looks very wrong, you should have got an SSL, I tell you what, I'll take it off your hands to help you make the space for one, how about that

Yup, similar to the old SCSI vs PATA choice in the days of yore....

[quote name='Beedster' post='1183146' date='Mar 31 2011, 11:31 AM']I'll add one thing to this thread; don't believe the hype. The more you get into the recording culture, the more you start to believe that analogue is superior to digital, tape is superior to disk, valves superior to transistors, and expensive mics superior to cheap ones. In each domain, it's how you use the equipment that will determine 90% of the quality of the recordings, not what equipment you use. C[/quote] MASSIVE [size=6]+1[/size]!!!

Do not confuse mastering with tracking or mixing! It is a completely different dicipline, and requires a different (though vaguely related) set of skills. Its as different as live engineering to recording (tracking) is. Very few places set up for tracking/mixing have a dedicated mastering suite, and engineers. IME a hobbyist or a pro recordist can do so much with mastering, a mastering pro can usually take it to a different level in terms of polishing the result. I'm not talking about making something sound necessarily more polished either, but rather taking your 'finished' product (mixes) and making them sound like a single album that somehow just sounds better in every way, whilst not really sounding different at the same time. If you dont know much about recording and mixing then dont make the mistake of thinking mastering may be an easier or simpler route, it really isnt! You need seriously good ears to be a great mastering engineer.

In short I guess we are saying what you most need (clearly) is a great deal more knowledge on the entire subject of recording before you should consider building/running a studio.

[quote name='Rimskidog' post='1182749' date='Mar 30 2011, 09:44 PM']It really depends what part of the Market you are aiming at. If you don't try to pretend you are something you are not you can do a lot itb with a decent interface and a range of mics. You'll have to price accordingly though. Main thing you need wherever you are aiming is chops.[/quote] +1 I've had amazing results with some very very limited gear, doing mainly mobile recordings: ie going to a decent rehearsal studio and turning that into a live room for an afternoon, and mixing entirely ITB. Of course I wouldn't charge anything like what Rimskidog can, but then I havent invested anything like what he has either, and wouldn't be stupid enough to say I'm competing with him directly at all. Totally different area of recording, doesnt mean I can't get a great result, but I think its fair to say my workflow (and therefore the band's workflow) is severely restricted by my available kit.

An SM57 is a great work horse mic, and wont break the bank, but it wont capture very deep bass either. They work prticularly well in conjunction with a DI send for anything below 150Hz IMO. Now that may be fine, but the engineer may not want to or have two channels available for bass (we are talking significant mucking about to get the phase right with a mic & DI, but it sounds incredible). The best mic I've heard on bassy stuff (thats toppy too, and has a lot of important mid range information) is a Heil PR40, which will set you back around £400 unfortunately. One thing to steer well clear of is kick drum mics on bass cabs, they are designed to scoop the mids pretty radically, and you really dont want that on bass! ANd dont go spending more for cables than you would for OBBM's from this very site, he uses quality parts and knows how to solder properly, great value kit.

When you gigging near Brighton again mate? Want to see you strut your funky stuff live, but cant easily get very far at the mo... Cant help thinking you'd look like this dude live:- Which is no bad thing!

[quote name='cheddatom' post='1180891' date='Mar 29 2011, 03:22 PM']Heh ^ a totally different opinion. Personally, I played with compressors on the computer for a long time, just messing with the controls. I had a vague idea of what each one did, and I used them to squish and maybe make things louder. None of that experience could replace actually sitting down at uni and reading good detailed descriptions of what a compressor does, and why/when you would want to use it. Obviously, everyone's different [/quote] OK I should have pointed out that you need to be sat there with some detailed desciptions of what the controls are doing too. Good point! But I stand by the fact that you can read descriptions and manuals all day, until you actually play with one for real you cant work out how to use it. The intellectual knowledge of the parameters and their functions doesnt explain how the ear/brain perceive the results.

[quote name='Wil' post='1180865' date='Mar 29 2011, 03:06 PM']Cool, thanks! Despite reading your very informative posts on compressors before, they do still baffle me a bit. I probably just need to get a decent one and play with it to better understand the controls.[/quote] Absolutely! The ONLY way to get your head around what they do, and how they sound is to get one with all the parameters available to you, and good metering. It needn't be expensive either, an Alesis rack mount will set you back just a few quid. It isnt the greatest or most noise free compressor by any means, but it will allow you to learn what compression does. Make up some leads and put it between your CD player and amp in the hifi and then play different music and just fiddle with it, solo bass recordings, percussion stuff, anything just learn to hear the compression coming in, learn what the controls do, and what they soudn like. It would take maybe a couple of hours of playing around to really get to grips with it completely. Then put your bass through it and continue to play, this time deliberately sculpting different envelopes out of your normal bass. If it doesnt work out then sell it on.

[quote name='Wil' post='1180843' date='Mar 29 2011, 02:49 PM']Looks sweet. I could probably use a decent compressor. Wonder how "squishy" it sounds.[/quote] Well if it behaves correctly then that entirely depends on how you set those controls. Assuming you can effectively set the threshold (the only missing control) with the input level (not always true) then if you want some real [i][b][size=1]SQUISH[/size][/b][/i] try this:- input level: high (not overloading though) - this is effectively setting the threhold lower (at a guess!) ratio: 8:1 attack: 12 noon release: 9 O'clock output: set to match the level of the unaffected bass. Then playing with the attack will allow you to get the right amount of squish, you've got to get it right, too short and you will lose the attack too long and you wont hear as obvious a squish...

ticks a LOT of boxes on my "Is it going to be a truly useable tool" list, just missing input and output meters....

I like green That looks like mid 70's Hulk green - awesome!

Love that feeling after wiring in a console when you fire it up and it all just works.... Of course I equally hate that feeling after you finish wiring up a console and it inexplicably all just doesn't work

[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' post='1179625' date='Mar 28 2011, 03:32 PM']The perfect reply really. Not only what to do, but why you are doing it, and all presented in easy steps. Excellent.[/quote] ta - making me blush now

[quote name='phil.i.stein' post='1179783' date='Mar 28 2011, 05:39 PM']thanks for that advice, it makes good sense thinking about it. can i ask a related question on the mic'ing issue ? i have a Barefaced t-midget which i love the 'bite' of. the tweeter is located centrally, i.e. in front of the centre of the 12" cone. where's best to place a mic in this instance. or should i just experiment ? edit - i.e. i would need to balance the tweeter brightness with the more bitey mid-range output of the cone...maybe turn the tweeter right down ? [/quote] Its always a case of experimenting, the sweet spot and angle are dependant on the cab, mic, room and volume. One point to note though is that a DI will provide all the frequencies that the tweeter does, and if you are looking for those you probably arent using a lot of distortion. If you are and like the sound of distortion with the tweeter up then you may find you dont need to mic at all. Usually though IME you dont really want a lot of tweeter in a mic'ed overdriven bass sound (I know of one notable exception to this, that I have recorded, and they want plenty of ultrafizz to mix into the top end of the guitar and synths - worked great for them, but highly unusual). Rememer that volume is related to distance with the inverse square law, in other words if you move the mic twice as far away from a source the signal is 4 times quieter. I nthe case of the midget if you mic closer to the edge of the 12" cone pointing at the center (as a starting point) you would get significantly less tweeter due to the inverse square law and the likely diminished ability of the tweeter toradiate sound almost at 90 degrees to its transducer. MOve the mic in to the center of the cab to add more tweeter top end. Balancing this lot with the DI will take patience, but the result should still be excellent.

[quote name='paulwillson' post='1179748' date='Mar 28 2011, 05:05 PM']thanks alot, perfect reply, will try a dynamic mic and try micing up the cab and using a signal from the DI too. cheers for the fast response. For the record the compression was going before the amp and the overdrive already.[/quote] DONT compress before the amp/overdrive, the dynamics come from the overdrive getting hit harder and grinding more. If you compress first you will lose that dynamic, and you will be compressing more. Compress afterwards, at mix down. Honest it will sound better...

[quote name='chris_b' post='1179294' date='Mar 28 2011, 11:40 AM']That doesn't answer the question.[/quote] No it doesnt, I was being facetious! Alex hits it squarely on the head. Another point is that with certain port designs it is possible to tune the phase of the signal as much as the frequency, thus taking into account the position of the port relative to the front of the cab. Certainly thats required in transmission line speakers, where the 'port' is most of the speaker in fact...

[quote name='sk8' post='1175736' date='Mar 25 2011, 12:32 PM']one of mine is used to cover up for bad technique - my compressor[/quote] Such a double edged sword for that though! Any covering up of dynamic peculiarites it may give you (depending on settings) it will more than pay you back with by exposing every wrong note, fumble, string noise and cock up in more detail than without it. IME compressors make you have to play better (and cleaner) all round, they certainly dont cover up bad playing!

[quote name='algmusic' post='1179303' date='Mar 28 2011, 11:42 AM']Technically, you're wrong.. your amp, which I am a BIG fan of, is really bass monitor. Unless you play in band that has no PA or you play where there is no PA, you amp is really only for you.. MXR or Sansamp and VERY GOOD monitoring will work a treat.. That said, I still rather a little amp behind me.. but the FOH is always hearing your DI I played a big festival and their glorious SWR 6x10 rig, that was supplied, stopped working just before the show.. my trusty sansamp saved the day and sounded miles better..[/quote] Well more often than not when I get to play out my amp is all the bass anyone hears, rarely need the PA to have the bass in it - but then I'm playing in pubs and ickle venues with not the biggest FOH. Teh PA we use could easily handle it for FOH, but very very few portable monitors can do bass justice IME, and I cant justify IEMs