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Funny you should say that Chris, my partner in the studio is a full on ProTools nut. He loves it. I always want to be able to work OTB (out of the box) all the way. We have a compromise, in that we track to two HD24s, and transfer to the mac for mix down. Its slow but it means he can work his way and I can work mine when I''m there. In fact the desk is really just a big monitor mixer to be honest, hardly anything goes via the desk to the HD24s, its all seperate mic-pres and channels. Shorter signal path, better results you see! I love working off a desk, far more than a mouse and keyboard. However with the right DAW, a nice controller and the right key strokes set up (and macros if they are supported) not to mention track templates and so on, you can work faster in a DAW than with a desk (it takes some practice). Not to mention the use of instant recall of mixes and so on, the use of as many instances of any vst you need (with todays powerful machines), the nearly unlimited routing capabilites of Reaper. So why do I want to use a desk? EQ mainly, nothing beats a real physical paramteric eq, its way easer (for me) to find the sweet spot with a physical control than dicking around with a mouse. There is no lag at all either. I started on a desk (a 24:16:2 studiomaster IIRC) and tape (Fostex G16 I think), so my mind is there when I'm doing this stuff. Having said that my day job is all about software and user interfaces, so I am reasonably at home with computers and DAWS. I just dont have enough time to learn 300 keystrokes for Reaper (not without unlearning 500 for vi!), and set up every kind of track template I may need.... There is nothing wrong with trying that compressor on the 2-buss, that particular compressor has a valve preamp (running at a full150VDC I think) as well as a valve in the gain control element (so its a 'real' tube comp), which means even if the compressor is not actually running you are still going to be running signal through a tube, which will do its 'thing' to the audio anyway. I just wouldnt see this as a mastering step at all, its part of the mix process still. On another note - you're making me blush chaps, thanks for the kind words! Oh and it wasnt a wet fish facial slap, just a little reality check...

Crikey, I'm on fire today aren't I

[quote name='Beedster' post='1027761' date='Nov 18 2010, 11:25 AM']LOL, our singer bought his vocal mic in the other day, claimed he knew how to set it up and did exactly the same thing! He sounded about a mile away whilst the guitarist's breathing and muttering under his breath was loud and clear. C[/quote] Oh forgot this one, classic, seen variations on this with AKG 414s, Neumans, and my favourite a Heil PR40 - its an end address mic (ie like an SM58) but looks like a big side address valve mic, so people sing into the side of them - oh how we laugh....

[quote name='Beedster' post='1027754' date='Nov 18 2010, 11:22 AM']There have been some great posts in this thread and many thanks to you all for them. The post above however will be printed and is going on to the studio wall just to the left of my computer! Thanks once again folks C[/quote] Awww shucks

I would take a moment to get realistic about your ability to master your own mixes right now. Really. 'Proper' mastering is a massive step up in terms of room treatment, monitoring, outboard gear from where you are now. But this doesnt mean I think you cant get some great results - just remain a bit realistic. However I would suggest doing it mainly with plugins. Thats not to say that that TL Audio compressor isnt a nice bit of kit (Ivory I would guess, we have one, good kit, can be a wee tad noisey, but thats usual with valve compressors). I would hesitate to use more than a dab of it on a mix buss, can sound really nice on the drum buss though... I would really recommend the Bootsy/'Variety of Sound' plugs for mastering:- BootEq - for general eq'ing, very musical eq this, not a scalpel though! Density II - is a blindingly good 2-buss compressor, really brilliant, and opens up options for M/S processing too Rescue AE - nice processor for manipulating stereo spread And dont forget his FerricTDS tape emulation, which is nothing if not subtle, but does a definite 'something' nice. As for a limiter, as long as you arent looking to go mad (why would you - it sounds rubbish) something like GMax is fine. Just use it to take the very top of the peaks off, just a couple or three dB. Alongside these I use ReaXComp (Reaper's mulitband compressor, excellent interface, as many bands as you want) and ReaComp (Reaper's compressor, very very very good, immensely configurable compressor). Oh, and the best bit, all the Variety of Sound plugs are free, as is GMax, and you already know about Reaper (best £25 I've ever spent on software). I've used the above and got really credible mastering results. However I have also compared my best efforts with those of a pro mastering studio, with all the real gear, and they win (naturally), they get a bit more level, and can achieve certain things that I cant, without going back to the original mix. Nevertheless the results I've got sound great to my ears, and well worth the cost, and have never disappointed anyone listening.

Getting your routeing in a muddle and piping red hot feedback through the cans at ear destroying volume - this will not make you popular - you will do it one day.... Recording a guitar part, only to think that the sound is a bit 'roomy' on listening back to the best take of the day - only to realise you recorded it with the mic that was over a drum overhead earlier in the day and is now on the other side of the room - this is almost always compounded by the awful realisation that you recorded over the drum overhead track by mistake! Recording a take only to realise that the big swooshy reverb you sent down the monitor for the singer to 'get into it' actually got printed, and is awful in the final mix.... Spending a good hour trying to work out why the singer cant hear themselves in the vocal booth - only to discover they havent put the headphones on / plugged the headphones into the wall socket, the headphone amp is off/turned down / feeding the main live room.... Listening to the opinion of the drummer /guitarist /keyboard player about how to 'capture their sound'... Dont do it, listen to their sound, listen to what they want their sound to be, then go about capturing it using tried and tested techniques, not the way his mate did it in the pub that one time! Turning on the phantom power, and frying the expensive ribbon mic...... DO document every track, setting, mic used, preamp setting, outboard setting, blah blah blah - this can take a long time. Its worth it! DO pay very very special attention to the gain structure throughout, or something will be too hot, or too noisy. DO think twice before using eq / compression when tracking, unless you know exactly what you are trying to achieve, and how to do it. You cant undo it later. DO spend time to get the mic position bang on - it is worth spending some hours over mic position, then documenting that position (digital cameras rule!) so that it is easier to recapture later. Even better is to be abl;e to spend a day just setting the mics up for the best sounds and levels, then record the tracks the next day when everyone is fresh... DO use the shortest signal path you can to disk. DO set the mood: lighting, lava lamps, relaxed fun atmosphere - at least let them believe you are relaxed! DO NOT let people in when other people are overdubbing or the band is laying down tracks - trackig or mixing by commitee is a disaster [i][b]DO NOT EVER hand over a final mix without the cash in your hand first!!!!![/b][/i] DO your best to keep the tracking simple and fast ESPECIALLY with drums track at 24bit with the levels set such that the peaks are no hotter than -6dBfs DO a/b against a commercial cd that the band likes the production of when mixing DO check your mix in the car, hi-fi, ipod to see how well it translates DO HAVE FUN!!!!

Where are you playing in Shoreham (noteable thread derail!)???

[quote name='chris_b' post='1025696' date='Nov 16 2010, 11:53 AM']I guess even pop songs can be a challenge.[/quote] ROFL! Heh, now that [i]is[/i] funny

Nice one Chris! IMO you have a perfectly good set of mics for getting really great results. The key is the dude in front of the desk! I thinkyou're right about acoustics next too, oh and have a look at [url="http://www.silentpcreview.com/"]silent pc review[/url] for tips on making machines quiet.... Can't wait to hear some evidence of recordings happening!!

[quote name='silddx' post='1024741' date='Nov 15 2010, 03:32 PM']Sorry Nik, I have put this up before but perhaps was not explicit enough. [size=5]Would you kindly amend the gear I will be bringing to ..[/size] silddx: Chris Squire Electra Evolution build, Squier Classic Vibe TTS Stratocaster, POD X3 LIVE. Thanks mate.[/quote] More importantly, what hat this time?

[quote name='danlea' post='1023026' date='Nov 13 2010, 11:52 PM']Just give yourself more leeway - if it's a half-decent preamp you should be able to do this without worrying about your signal-to-noise ratio. If you have a compressor on the preamp then feel free to apply some very mild compression straight off, [b]but this is more often used for vocals than for bass guitar[/b].[/quote] Errr, no it isnt! Compression whilst tracking bass is pretty standard fair, but from the OP's original question he may be far better off turning the preamp down to a point where he definitely will not clip the preamp, and just maybe setting up a hard limiter at 0dB (ie at the point of clipping). That should help catch any occasional peak. Plus it wont effect anything under that level at all, since the threshold is so high. You'd need a pretty good limiter to manage that in hardware, I regularly use an series 1 Focusrite Octopre set to as hard a limit as it can manage on the highest threshold, to catch the odd drum transient on the way down to a HD24, and it does a great job. Having said that with properly set up gain staging for the digital workld that just shouldn't ever happen. The truth is that if you are recording 24 bit (you are recording 24bit right?) then you should aim for your biggest peaks being at about -6dB - unless you have appallingly noisey kit. Those transient spikes will then never bother you.

[quote name='silddx' post='1018731' date='Nov 10 2010, 01:21 PM']I was just kidding mate. All of your questions have positive answers except 4), you have only to bring yourself. No equipment is necessary. Bashes are VERY relaxed affairs, where fellow bassists can chat, try eachother's gear, there's a raffle, some workshops, refreshments, etc. You will come away with a warm fuzzy feeling in your heart and have made some new friends. I can guarantee you'll enjoy even half a day there. Cheers. Nigel[/quote] Be prepared to hear a lot of people making a LOT of noise though (equal amount hot air and bass playing), and I should warn you that there may be some slapping going on.... Doesnt matter if you only started a couple of weeks ago as far as anyone there is concerned, its enough to be interested in bass.

[quote name='silddx' post='1018513' date='Nov 10 2010, 10:42 AM']Bloody hell Clarky, that's very generous![/quote] +1 mate, thats a bit staggering!

If you want to be funky listen to funk. Sounds glib, but its the only way. I dont mean have a quick listen to a couple of tracks either, I mean immerse yourself entirely in funk music, listen to only funk for a few months, practice along to it always. Avoid anything that isnt funk during this time. That will make you funky. In the mean time, save you money.... And remember, you gotta wear your sunglasses in here

I like to have really nice kit. Primaril;y because I hate equiptment failures, and IME usually better quality components are found inside the more expensive kit. This hopefully increases the MTBF, but thats just an average anyway (I have a nasty intermediate 'pop' in my rig every now and then at the moment, it drives me insane cos I cant find the cause, I think its somewhere in the pedal board). Secondly because I want an amp that only makes noise when I want it to, the rest of the time I want, nothing. Thirdly because I want a great sound when I eventually get around to playing it. When it comes to fx I have done the top of the range (at the time) multi, and its internal routing was pretty flawed IMO. If I could find a multi that made the sounds I want to make I'd go back in an instant. I wholeheartedly agree with Silddx, being able to completely swap out all the parameters in one hit is a fantastically powerful thing, as is immaculate recall! Believe you me that there is far less subtlety available if you are doing that than turning on/off a single stomp box. With basses I am driven by weight as much as any other consideration, they have to be light or my back plays up. Which is crap, I'd rather concentrate on tone, playability and ergonomics, but I have to put weight ahead of those three. I think I've been guilty of looking down my nose at other people's gear, largely when it doesn't do the job properly as opposed to something to do with the cost of it or the badge on the front. I truly feel sympathy for any player I can see but cant actually hear as a result of them attempting to make real bass noises with some rubbish little combo. I dont think I bought any of my gear simply to have better gear than someone else though - since its pretty subjective above a certain level anyway - I did buy the gear because it was the best fit for my criteria at the time I bought it though.

MyDrumSet Its a free VSTi, treat it as a mic'ed up kit and do what you want to make any sounds you like from his rather nicely tracked samples. INcludes room mics and ambience mics -- makes it very easy to tailor to whatever you want. I've got everything from super dry 70's disco to 'so f****** rock' out of it, just by changing the eq, reverb, compression and mic balance.

You'd certainly get very close with Reaper, not that I'm suggesting anyone buy Repaer instead, but I think it can do pitch changes, slowdowns, eqing etc, plus has a midi keyboard that (with a couple of vsts) makes it dead easy to match the pitch. It can't write out the dots though, can this?

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1012189' date='Nov 4 2010, 03:34 PM']I got a flat tyre on the A64 last week and Chris Wolstenholme pulled over and helped me change the wheel, and then he taught me to play Hysteria, lovely geezer. I tried flagging down that ****er Alain Caron first but he pretended he hadn't seen me, ***hole.[/quote]

[quote name='LawrenceH' post='1011181' date='Nov 3 2010, 06:31 PM']You're still constrained by the mechanical limitations of the cone and voicecoil design. So while you can theoretically throw more power at it to compensate I doubt there is a 10" driver in the world capable of taking anything like the power you'd need to match an 18" cab. It would probably be in the order of thousands of watts and require an enormous displacement.[/quote] Its surprising though. Forgive me for keeping this simple and looking at the area of the circle rather than the cone (since we dont know the depth of the drivers), but an 18" driver has an area about 3.25 times greater than a 10" driver <just put (pi * (9^2)) / (pi * (5^2)) in to google> So if the 10" driver had an excursion limit more than 3.25 times the excursion limit of the 18" driver then they are pretty evenly matched. Given the ropey nature of most old 80's drivers, and a lot of 90's drivers I can well believe that that is either achievable now, or will very soon be. If you move up to a 12" driver then you are looking ar only 2.25 * the excursion.... We all know that current voice coils can take significantly more that 2 or 3 times the thermal energy of older voice coils too.

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1010411' date='Nov 3 2010, 09:35 AM']This sounds great! I like the idea of rolling off the horn and getting a more traditional 'fatter' tone![/quote] The ae410 also sounds surprisingly mellow and old school if you roll off the horn completely and take some treble off. Especially given its always refferred to as having a rather forward upper mid. It can go super 'warm' with the LMII type amps....

To be honest, without more info as to what sort of music you make and what you want your bass to sound like its almost impossible to say which is really 'better'....

If you favour any grind in your tone then IME you cant beat the amp/DI combo approach. But you need a good amp, good cab, decent mic (neednt be anything magic though) and a decent room (although you are going to mic really close so the room is not that big of a factor). The important thing is the phase matching of the sounds. Get that wrong and its plop city....

The Berg HT115 is just a superb cab, 15 or not. Paired with its brother the HT210 its an utterly killer little stack. The HT210 is even heavier than the HT115, its a real workout getting the stack to a gig (you can see the pair of them at the SE Bass Bash if you're coming along), but it just sound so gooood.... I'd love to hear a pair of HT115s though, that would be utterly killer.

Call Larry Hartke? Seriously! [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=686428"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=686428[/url] 2nd post in, is Larry, offering his cell phone number. Genuinely amazing CS.... As an aside PLux's LH500 is pretty darn quiet (more hissy with the Bright switch in but not too bad)