51m0n

For a bit of perspective, its perfectly possible to produce a great recording with a bunch of sm57s, if you have the know how. Its easier if you have a good condensor or two as well. Its perfectly possible to do a reasonable to good job of micing a db for live with an sm57. Really. No doubt at all, it can be done. What you are after is mics that make getting a great result easier and less hit and miss. Do you need a million mics, no. Do you need individual £3000 mics? No. You need a good set of real workhorses that wont stop you getting good results. Total cost should be well under £5000. £3000 should go a long long way to covering the basics with real quality kit. If you cant make decent recordings with £3000 worth of mics then find another past time! That rules out a [url="http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/u87/1553"]U87[/url] immediately. Dont sweat it though, you can still get amazing recordings with cheaper [url="http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/tlm103-+-shockmount/1552"]alternatives[/url]. But you want to mic your bass for a gig. This is clouding your judgement IMO, live you could use a million different mics to get a bit of DB into the PA, and they would be perfectly adequate, as long as you can place them on the instrument in a way that works fo ryou and allows that specific mic to capture the right part of the sound. The thing with DB live is not the mic as much as the position you can put it in to cope with the inherent compromises. That DPA happens to make this much easier, but it doesn't make it the only option. Maybe now isnt the time to concentrate on your live db mic?

You already know my opinion I think There are not that many mics in that price range that you could really say excel at as many sources as a PR-40 (IMO). If you are worried about the studio first and foremost its an absolute no-brainer to me. I can honestly say its very very good at kick, vocal (smoother than a condensor but still plenty of top, and a really nice other option, worked for me on some voices where a condensor of some quality has not), full kit (ie room mic), DB, Leslie (esp the bottom speaker), congas, loud guitar amps etc etc. I have never noticed any issue with its output gain whilst recording with it. not once. If you are worried about live first and foremost and are willing to spend more on other mics then the DPA is probably the better solution for live (haven't heard it so I cant get too excited, although a lot of people love it). No mic can cover all the bases and applications you may need a mic for however, it's up to you to weigh up your priorities at this point. I'd also lean heavily toward PR-28s for drums (4 or 5 of them depending on the kit size) and the best small diameter condensors you can afford as a stereo pair for overheads. Also look at maybe getting a third for the hats. Then the Cascade FatHead II stereo package for room mics, another variation of vocal mic, and mainly on guitars. That leaves you needing a good large diaphragm condensor mic for you main vocal mic, (oh boy, huge can of worms). Neuman (or a clone thereof) is always a very strong contender, but many consider the ubiquitous U87 overpriced (its a damned good mic but there are a lot of damned good mics), but dont discount the likes of AKG 414... Gets expensive fast does a good mic locker I'm afraid.

[quote name='umph' post='942746' date='Sep 1 2010, 10:17 PM']seems to be alot of underlying valve hate in this thread which makes me sad [/quote] Read what is said again. I dont think anyone said valves were bad, I for one posted a picture of the most godly of all the valve heads (just IMO), what was said very clearly was that to propose that valve amps and Ampeg in particular and an SVTIIPro to be even more particular were the only way to get a really fantastic tone, and if you didnt believe the OP you were a fool, and lying to yourself and everyone else was in fact a load of trollish horsesh*te to be derided as such to the greatest extent posible at every opportunity. Its well recognised and accepted here that there are many bass tones that can be considered really fantastic, some require valves some dont. No worries! Dogmatic claims otherwise are just bogus. 10,000 people at his last gig... Only after three hours of photoshopping, mwahahahahahaaaaaa!

Our work here is done - whose off t' pub?

This (thanks again Herbie FLowers): He's the whole damned track!! And this:-

Really struggling to read your posts Pete, something to do with your avatar?

[quote name='fdavidso' post='942323' date='Sep 1 2010, 04:40 PM']But to rag this back to reality.... are there any cheap lightweight options around - I hear a lot about MB and GB but for us mere mortals who have a couple of hundred max to spend on a top box, what would the recommendations be - Ashdown Little Giant 300? something similar?[/quote] Get a Hartke LH500. No its not a featherweight head, but it is reasonably light. Its a got a big transformer in there, but its a tranny amp with a good clean tube pre and has the power to knock walls over. Oh and get it second hand....

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' post='942284' date='Sep 1 2010, 03:59 PM']Now your GASing me... i had my mind just set to settle for the Midget cause i dont need more power than i can get with this setting and the lower small/weight would be handy. I'm having second thoughts... again... [/quote] Sorry, but I compared the Supertwelve to my rig and its damnably good IMO....

I repent Father Linus, please forgive me my sins.....

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' post='942254' date='Sep 1 2010, 03:39 PM']Not much to say after 8 pages of chearfull chit chat so i'll post my [i]middle of the road [/i]rig... I'm using a Trace Elliot GP12-X (300 TE's W) amp with both 2x10"H and 1x15" cabs and i can assure anybody that it is capable to throw the SVT back to beginning of the road... more defined and better balanced sound BUT still a tad too boomy for me. Oh!... and i'm playing with a TRB-5PII and a SR5, and better not start with the pedalboard... Entering in my 30ies i'm in the process of getting me a nice and light GB Shuttle 9.0 and a Barefaced cab (Midget T or Supertwelve T) to spare my back. I know it is not full-on-valve but i would like to hear that rig side by side with the SVT/Fridge rig, hehe! It would give a nice photo too [/quote] IMO go with the supertwelve - its absolutely killer!

So in this case the amp effectively did the right thing by protecting itself from an impedance change (when the tweeter blew). I'd say having the cabs fail and the amp not dying would be a good thing. If it protected itself by turning itself off its doubly good IMO, its giving you a very big clue that something has gone wrong, and stopped itself being toasted at the same time. I remember a couple of cases a fair few years ago now where PA horns blowing took out the amps driving them. Far from a reason to doubt these 'little' heads, I'd say it was a damned good reason to buy one (casually aimed at Monsieur EBSFreak )

[quote name='jakesbass' post='942081' date='Sep 1 2010, 02:04 PM']Hello Boys... just saying hello cos haven't been around for a while (been busy) and I noticed that most of Basschat was in here anyway here's a nice pic of me playing a really beautiful 200 year old german double bass that was provided by the promoter at my gig in Hamburg over the weekend. I didn't use an amp so sorry for the topic derail [attachment=57893:IMG_0197.jpg] This bass is insured for €30,000 it was a bit heavy but not as bad as an Ampeg [/quote] Digging the monocle baby! Thats a very fine looking instrument, but it doesnt have tubes so it must be a dud. Please tell your promoter to rectify this for next time.... Oh and at this point I dont think its possible to derail this thread, it was derailed on the first post

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='942042' date='Sep 1 2010, 01:41 PM']Is this the same Dave74200 that has shoulder problems? You should get yourself a lighter amp, mate....[/quote] It is indeed, sound advice there WoT...

Linus, mate, I just laughed so hard I need a new truss

[quote name='dave74200' post='941980' date='Sep 1 2010, 01:01 PM']Yep, and leave all you with your 2kg baby amps that you can carry in your man handbag on the way to your next open mic session at the Flying Horse![/quote] Yes - please do! Do shut it on the way out, wont you dear...

[quote name='dave74200' post='941972' date='Sep 1 2010, 12:55 PM']Yawn!![/quote] Touche! Such a riposte. With an argument of that magnitude from such a spectacular musician as yourself I can see I really should change my opinion of the magnificently versatile SVTIIPro head, that I have seen hundreds of. Truly it is said that only a big Ampeg head and a fridge can actally deliver the tone of the righteous man. At this point there needs to be a bit about striking down, fureious vengeance etc etc.... Really, tell me who is the band you play for, where was this fabuous 10000 punter gig you so recently played? Has you neck stopped hurting on your [i]strumming[/i] arm side yet? Troll.

[quote name='dave74200' post='941957' date='Sep 1 2010, 12:46 PM']I rest my case![/quote] Err care to explain how you can rest your case at that point?

[quote name='dave74200' post='941941' date='Sep 1 2010, 12:33 PM']So why don't all bands use stuff they can get in the back of a car and save on transport and road crew costs?[/quote] Oh dear. Well there is the endorsement system, for which artists are paid to appear to use certain gear (believe me they often dont use what you see n the stage - smoke and mirrors!) There is the element of the big show spectacle here too. You are aware that it is possible to buy Ampeg 810 cab fronts (3" deep pretend cabs) and marshal stacks too, they stack real nice in the van, a roady can fill your stage with them in 5 minutes, and the haulage on them is peanuts compared to actual rigs. Just one amp somewhere (not necessary line of sight ot the audience) is mic'ed and the FOH and monitors are fed from that amp alone. There is the fact that certain companies are very prevalent in certain countries, and it is cheaper to use the in house kit than pay to haul gear.

[quote name='dave74200' post='941935' date='Sep 1 2010, 12:30 PM']The issue is, there's no real standard on here is there. I could be having a debate with people who are pro musicians or people who can barely play the bass or have a sh*t sound anyway. Who knows? My original post was intended for anyone who has a big heavy valve amp and is thinking of selling it for something more portable. I regretted it big time and think they would too. My last crowd was 10,000 and I need a big rig, and love the tone it gives me. I searched every other make and model and couldn't find anything that came close. That's all.... was just a bit of advice, didn't realise it'd ruffle so many feathers![/quote] Oh right, so I see, well, feel free to follow the link to my myspace page, and with your heightened awareness and golden ears listen to the first track "What It Is", and tell me what the recording chain was, did I use a valve pre, head, mic a cab or not, what cab and mic was it? Can I play or not? What post processing was involved to get the timbres you hear? Was it recorded to tape, or digital? Then post me a link to your band website, and I'll critique your work too. What fun!! Rest assured there are some very very pro players on this site, some semi-pro players, some hobbyists (some are as good as the pros) and some people learning and trying to get better. We have a real community oif bass loving types of all standards, with equiptment ranging from starters to the very very highest of high end imaginable. Some of the latter dont have a valve in their signal path, some do. They all sound the absolute canine undercarriage to me though. What would I know though...

[quote name='dave74200' post='941924' date='Sep 1 2010, 12:20 PM']I disagree sir. Everyone notices. Many won't care as you obviously don't, but they'll notice. I saw a local band who all used little combo amps, the bass player had a one speaker amp, and they sounded really bad. The PA engineer described his job as, 'trying to polish a turd'![/quote] More trolling rubbish! You arent comapring like for like hear for a start. Secondly a decent PA is all about FOH sound, the engineer could care less for a big rigf then - the spill from big cabs is very detrimental. A small miced guitar cab (say a 6 to 15 watt single 12" coned combo) is plenty for a aguitarist to hear himslef, and will break up beautifully, mic it and let the sound guy put that to FOH and monitors. Similarly with bass, a 112 at the right height is enough of a monitor if you are doing the big PA thing. Mic'ed or DI'ed is fine, what a sound guy doesnt want is a stupid great 810 getting in the way and spewing out hideous amounts of rumble into the kick mic, snare mic, etc etc etc. You aint done any FOH have you? Good quality amps that deliver just enough volume to satisfy the players and do a slittle else beyond that as possible are the answer to every decent sound engineers dream. This applies up to 40K rigs (thats the biggest rig I have ever personally run). Furthermore, as previously stated even bassists struggle to determine the difference in tone from an Ampeg B1 and an MB LMII, punters dont even know there is a bassist on the stage!

[quote name='dave74200' post='941919' date='Sep 1 2010, 12:16 PM']Oh, I know. I'll give you my band's website so you can all insult me on that shall I?[/quote] Oh yes please, that would be terrific....

[quote name='dave74200' post='941910' date='Sep 1 2010, 12:10 PM']Oh come on. Some of you obviously don't agree with me and I perfectly accept that. I can also see exactly what many of you are saying. Very sensible and worthwhile. But this guy is just talking sh*te man! Nobody on here can tell me that an SVT is sh*t. Some may prefer other tones etc but come on![/quote] Well anyone is welcome to their opinion, and if a bass head cant give me my tone at the volume I need it to, then it is not fit for purpose, and that my friend, is a polite way of saying it is dogs a**e fruit....

[quote name='dave74200' post='941881' date='Sep 1 2010, 11:46 AM']OK. I have the USA SVT 2 pro, an Ampeg classic 8x10 cab, Musicman Stingray and USA Fender Precision. A load of sh*t to be sneered at obviously![/quote] Ooooh a urination competition! My rigs better than yours nerh-ne-ne-nerh-nerh. Can I play too then? Like I said I find the inherent Ampeg tone very limiting, especially at volume, the 810 cab is damnably inefficient, given its size and weight. If you like it though thats fine, if that is the tone you want (classic rock) then great, I'm really please for you. BUT dont tell me that it even comes close to my rig for what I want, you dont see Bergantino cabs behind people on TV cos Jim Bergantino will not give anyone an endorsement deal, he just doesnt do that (not even for Vic W) - his shizzle is truly boutique baby. They are pretty well regarded though, certainly at least as well regarded as an 810. In fact if you want to get a better sounding smaller cab along the same lines you need to get a Bergantino nv610, its considered a modern slayer of that old coffin you dig. The ae410 is very very very highly regarded, and a mosntrous cab, for tone, portability, construction and volume. The versatility and organic warmth of my sa450 is legendary, in a very short time. There have been plenty of tests online to prove that bassists (let alone the public) cant tell an LMII (cut down version of the sa450) from an Ampeg B1, if thats the sound you want to get out of it. But I can get alot more tones from mine, and it is light as a feather.... Oh and I see you P and 'Ray and raise you a Roscoe baby. Game set and match for me from my perspective (clearly not from yours, but that is the beauty of bass tones, there are so many if you choose to look into it). The elements of this rig have a beautiful synergy, they work to gether incredibly well to deliver a vast array of tones, all of which are sublimely clear and beautiful in context. I wouldnt trade my rig for yours if you paid me a couple of grand to, and promised to be my roady and haulage too...

[quote name='dave74200' post='941875' date='Sep 1 2010, 11:43 AM']Hardly any heavyweights of the bass world are there?[/quote] Oh come on now you do come across as a prat! Randy Jackson, Richard Bona, Rocco Prestia, Esperanza Spalding!!!! Go back to playing guitar...