51m0n

Finally finished my final mix (probably) of Bernadette as recorded by Plux and the drummer and guitarist from the Bluesy band I work with, whoi were kind enough to jump in and help out at the last minute when plux' peers let him down. It was done for Plux's GCSE Music Ensemble piece. Wanted to share, and see what you guys think. The arrangement is based upon the one on Standing In The Shadows Of Motown, but Plux kind of aimed somewhere between Jamerson's and Babbitt's versions of the bass part, in other words he played it how he likes it, which was fine. I rarely get to track stuff, which I love doing, so this was a real treat. I've remixed it several times, since the one that got handed in, trying to get closer to the kind of feel and space of a Motown recording. Right now I'm liking this version quite a lot.

Dont look at any of these then:- [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk"]Aladdin's Cave Of Bass Delights[/url] [url="http://www.bergantino.com"]OMG these are the dogs doodahs[/url] [url="http://www.markbass.it/"]Its so light I didnt even know I was carrying it out of the shop, until I got home and the wife left me on account of me having sold the children for an amp....[/url] [url="http://www.roscoeguitars.com/century_signature_series.htm"]Now this is porn with a capital BASS[/url] Dont forget, food is overrated, you need bass gear more! I make no apologies for my highly personally biased list of goodies above Oh and welcome!

He is the absolute epitomy of bass playing, love his insight on playing what the song needs, and immersion in the material. Nice one!

[quote name='Colledge' post='906897' date='Jul 27 2010, 11:50 AM']well this thread is a wake up call... ive used instrument cables loads of times as speaker cables.... speaker currents arn't really that great so i figured i'd get away with it, never had any adverse effects. I figured that the only real difference is better shielding and maybe slightly thinner gauge wires. anyway, +1 on not the cables fault. A few years ago i had some amp problems with the fuse blowing all the time... turned out to be a shorted speaker lead.[/quote] Err wong, speaker currents are easily great enough in a bass amp to at the very least melt an instrument cable, which may or may not have adverse effects on the amp/speaker as well. Remember there are 1200 watt bass amps out there now, but even a 500w bass amp can knacker an instrument cable, especially a cheap as chips nasty as anchovies ickle plastic patch cable (may they all be destroyed tomorrow in a freak yachting accident).... Dont risk it, use speakons with at the very least 13amp mains cable between them, nothing else is as 'safe'.

[quote name='DaveMuadDib' post='905326' date='Jul 25 2010, 10:51 PM']Haha, lots of debate here. So my question is... does this mean my TC stack is rubbish in a live situation or what? :-/[/quote] Not if you like how it sounds

Dont really like the Beatles. Dont really like Mcartney's bass playing style, and cant stand his tone. Of the few Beatles songs I can bear to listen to, Mcartney didnt write them. Oh, and you can try as you like, but you cannot seperate the man from his work, and he is still a right *&^% IMO. I am sure it wont make any odds on his day if he discovers this post either Just my opinion mind you. Of course there is absolutely no accounting for taste and if you like him, his work, his bass playing and it does it for you then thats absolutely fine, good luck to you I say

I liken my tone to a good solid punch to the face. Its clean, very articulate and feels 'fast'. No excess flab (unlike me ) to drag around. I got there with a lot of mistakes on the way, and a lot of experience trying to do FOH in pub venues and dealing with bassists who insist on full fat low end which ends up spilling into every mic on stage and turning the PA into a very effective hum (re)creation device. Result, the entire band sounds like plop. Deep bass in the wrong genre or the wrong venue is a nightmare to control. I was in a band with two guitars and two drummers and a vox/flute for years and got to a point where the bits I played could be heard and not just felt, whilst not completely muddying up the mix. In that cacophany I used to slap, tap, strum and play fast melodic fingerstyle parts, sometimes in a single song. Compressors are a real necessity in that situation, getting the right one and setting it up right took years, and I still am learning! Its also immensely important to control the low end of the guitars, nothing worse than a big smiley face guitar eq to make the bass hard to mix or hear. I like new strings, I love the extra harmonic content whether you have a trebly sound or not, that grind is really lovely to my ears. So I clean my strings after ever gig in a tube o' meths. Fresh on for the gig. Lots of string rotation at chez 51 I go for the flat eq on the amp, slightly favouring the bridge pickup for fingerstyle, if I want to burp through more I give myself more bridge pup (and maybe more bass from the Roscoe pre to make up for the natural rolloff on that pup). Once up at full on volume, if the room can take more bass, I'll bring up some low end, either on the amp, or with the focusrites' bass enhance knob (set to 'huge' as that works upto 100Hz, which allows less of it to be used with useful results), only ever needs a tiny bit though (less than 9 O'clock). I sometimes pull down around 1KHz if its a really bright room, but usually bodies soak that up enough to leave it. The secret to the big punch is the low mids, the right frequncy is super important, and not too much, which is the hardest thing to figure out. Outside of the band my tone is not very pretty, in a mix its exactly what I want to hear, and what I want the audience to hear too - venue permiting! That is, every single mistake, in all its glory, and a few right notes as well on a good night The venue is a bigger influence on any eq than anything else IMO. Until you learn this you are never going to get it right with any sense as to how and why, its all just a big guessing game. In a bigger place you can learn to eq off the reflection from the far wall. Play very staccato notes and listen to what comes back off the back wall, too boomy? turn some bass down etc etc. Its a real skill though, and not 100% accurate, but it can really help in a pinch. Also when you walk into a venue dont be afraid to try and size up the acoustic when its empty, clap your hands, shout, listen for flutter reverb (if you get that all bets are off, unless you expect a lot of bodies in there to soak it all up), get the PA up and some full range music on, walk around, does it sound consistent?, bassy?, bass lite?, middly? are there obvious nulls and peaks in the bass in the room? All of this is valuable info you need to start thinking about to help you tailor your sound to the room. Anything you do when the room is empty must be tailored to the knowledge that as it fills up with punters you will effectively lose treble and upper mid, and if it gets hot and humid then you lose even more. If you dont take that into account then you will give the punters an ill defined rumble and not the articulate warm thud you want. Or the punch in the face I like to provide

[quote name='Musicman20' post='899211' date='Jul 19 2010, 06:13 PM']Ouch![/quote] Hey, dont get me wrong, if it floats your boat thats great, it clearly has a bazillion tones to choose from, and will no doubt be a fine bass, I just hate the look. I'm willing to accept the fault here may well be mine

Sorry that thing is SO ugly I couldnt ever own one, I hate all the straight edged basses and guitars though, they just dont do it for me at all....

Bloody hell Mike! Stop it, you make me feel very very pants indeed love the way you fell back into Cissy Strut at the end. So this Saleem fella, he's a nice bloke, who's reliable and plays that well, can groove and has chops, and is available for you to work with; I bet he lives at the end of the Rainbow as well doesnt he, and can fly, and sprinkles magic fairy dust all over the place too I'm only jealous Love the Homespun album too, (note to self, must add to shopping list in flac format). Keep it up!

My last mix of PLux' GCSE ensemble rendition of Bernadette - wicked ;o)

Yup have had this for a long time (its not a very new version at all), I love it for all its maybe errr flawed . Nina is bonkers, but brilliantly so, reminds me a bit of Wendy O Williams (who was proper certifiable).

[quote name='Bass Culture' post='890525' date='Jul 9 2010, 03:45 PM']I never used to use compression at all but since acquiring my TC RH450 I run the Spectracomp at about 9/10 'o' clock all the time. Gives me a lot of punch to my sound, which I really love. I'd never use a Compressor though, I htink, and on any heads I've had that have had it built in (Hartke HA3500, Trace AH300SMX) I've often had set so low - and then proably only because it was there - that it most likely wasn't 'engaging' most of the time! The Spectracomp on the RH450 does add a certain [i]Je ne sais quoi[/i] though. Mark[/quote] I think the Spectracomp is a three way multiband comrpessor, if you use it you are definitely using compression

Yes Live its very helpful for levelling differences between finger style, strumming, slapping and tapping. Generally set very low ratio, medium to low threshold. I mess with the attack, but keep the release as short as possible (without artifacts). Also engage a limiter to catch peaks when the attack is set long. Generally aiming for levelling with a tad of punch enhancement. If I notice that its affecting my dynamics then I need the amp louder and to be playing softer anyway. If its really all about transparent leveling then I go for the soft knee option, if I'm more about punch then I prefer a hard knee. The focusrite gives upto about 3dB of truly transparent (ie I cant even feel it) compression set up right, it will go way further but it becomes more noticeable both audibly and touch wise. That, of course, is not necessarily a bad thing, just how it is. Studio all of the above applies, plus a bunch of more creative possibilities; extreme compression rations, very long or ver short attack times, release time pumping, anything that works. More often than not this is done at mix down rather than tracking though. I like to track everything clean as a whistle if I have access to outboard gear during mixing. Unfortunately that isnt nomally the case so its compression whilst tracking as a rule.

I think it sounds fine. If your band sounds in rehearsal as you want a recording of it to sound - then record it to sound like that. A lot of hype is put into overdubbing and the art of studio production, magic dust and fairy lights etc, yet the real art is capturing a performance IMO, all the absolute most classic band recordings have done that, and many of the most timeless are so because they value honest to goodness recording of the band as a whole I like it, its quirky and unapologetic about it. This a very good thing IMO, stand out bands, stand out because of their quirks, (the Pixies spring to mind), nice one mate! Technically you could do yourself some help by (and I may be way out of line hear) ducking the bass off the kick on SIlent Running, just enough to hear a little of the transient off the kick (its just lost at the mo). I'd also recommend a proper bit of mastering mate, thats whats missing to my ears if I'm honest. Costs dosh, but done right it really does make a hell of a difference.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='879615' date='Jun 28 2010, 10:07 AM']Thats because it has none of the sensibilities of a real jazz standard, the movement between the chords is non typical in harmonic progression when compared to the run of the mill standard, and the reference (the original bass line) is someone who clearly has no clue about the idiom [b]flailing around like a coked up jellyfish.[/b][/quote] Thanks for that Jake - cheered me up a lot!

They are the absolute canine undercarriage at that price. Very loud (really really bring the beef), push a lot of air with the rigth cabs. Down sides: - Well they are old school tech so not ultra light, but not stupid heavy by any means. Funky tone stack will take some getting used to, its very musical, and just as unintuitive No speakon connectors Little bit bright and hissy until you get around the tone stack thing Remember this is a very very clean tube head, it doesnt growl, parp or grind in any way, its not supposed to, this could be a positive for you though (it is for me). Nowhere near as cheap as they were Other than that its a terrfic bass amp. HIghly recommended.

So glad you all had a great time. Thanks for the encouraging thoughts/get wells, much appreciated! Feeling a little better (might have kept some liquid down for the first time in over 24 hours - phew!). Needless to say the chat on compressors will go ahead when I next get a chance, probably the SE Bash. Again, sorry I couldnt be there, I would have loved to have heard BG's take on truss rods Oh well back to 'real' life. Laters....

Chaps, Really really sorry but for some reason my body has decided to be very (read disgustingly) ill for the last 14 hours. No idea what brought this on. I wanted to see if things had progressed this morning or not, and they haven't. So I'm afraid Plux and I wont make it after all (I wouldnt get to the end of my road, let alone London!). Have a lovely time all of you!

[quote name='xgsjx' post='877329' date='Jun 25 2010, 12:55 PM']But then i suppose like any pedals, it's down to what [b]you[/b] like the sound of that counts.[/quote] +1 Absolutely!

Oh mate, what a fantastic oppurtunity, how many of us will ever get to experience a day like that! Glad you had such a superb time!

[quote name='escholl' post='877045' date='Jun 25 2010, 01:41 AM']Right, well, the point is that if it's clipping the built-in limiter, it's going to clip any output stage -- only with the possibility of distortion. In this sense the RComp works perfectly fine. It might not be the conventional way, but really, try it, it works very well. [/quote] I dont think I explained myself very well. That compressor is automatically designed to do what I am suggesting on its own. You wont gain anything by putting a limiter after it, since it already limits at 0dBfs anyway. Except maybe to get the limiter firing up earlier so you have a little more headroom for limiting to occur in. It is in itself an example of comp-> limiter. The point is limiter-> comp changes the envelope of the signal hitting the comp, which wil lchnage the action of the comp. Its not wrong (nothing is) and if it sounds good to you then great, use it. Its just another validation for using a limiter and a compressor together. All I was trying to say is that the typical usage of a comp & limiter is comp first (*just like in the waves R-Compressor*), since the limiter stops overs caused by lifting the make up gain with a long attack time. If you hit a built in limiter you WONT clip the output stage, you will limit the output at the threshold set for the limiter (or very close to it) - that is the point of the limiter. You can mimic this with two seperate devices too, but you can never get the gain after the compressor higher than the clip point, however you can raise the gain after the limiter if you lower its threshold, which effectively achieves the same thing. Does that make more sense?

[quote name='escholl' post='876826' date='Jun 24 2010, 08:41 PM']Ok, so, to satisfy my own curiosity, I had a bit of a play around this afternoon with a previously recorded bass guitar track. Used a Waves L1, Waves RComp, and an Algorithmix TTDR meter for the metering. I then set RComp to 50ms attack, 200 release, ratio 3:1. I found that putting the limiter after the compressor did indeed allow the large spikes through the compressor, boosted by the make up gain, and then limited by the limiter, as expected. However, the largest signal peaks would overload the input and especially the output of the compressor before being limited, not an issue really with the headroom on DSP plugins but would definitely be an issue with physical circuits. I then tried it the other way round, so limiter, then compressor. The limiter threshold now had to be set a bit lower, to prevent the final output from clipping, BUT it did so without clipping the compressor at all either. It could be driven just as hard now, but without any stage clipping at all. To my ears, it also sounded more natural and smoother overall, but that is probably subjective. So, either is effective, but for me I think I will stick to limiter, then compressor.[/quote] Hmmm according to the manual the Wave R-Comp has a built in L1 style limiter built in to the output, so its not the right tool to use to play with this, as its trying to automate this for you. ANy attempt to push it hard enough to emulate what I'm sayiing and you will be distorting the output. Try Reaper's Reacomp compressor instead... Comp then limiter is the norm in most of the dual function compressor limiter rack units I've ever seen, certinaly how its set up on my focusrite compounder, and I can easily get compression to light up, push a bit harder and push the limiter into action with the peak, without any amount of distortion from overloading the circuit. I can cause this to occur without pushing the input hard. It will always be easier the other way around to not get any overs if you think about it, but you wont get the same extreme effect on the front of the note, this is certainly not an example of 'transparent' compression

[quote name='urb' post='876290' date='Jun 24 2010, 12:17 PM']Aye but by potentially missing the match you save yourself all the heart ache and agony... and if they can't win this game then stuff em - I've spent (i.e. wasted) enough time and energy on our team over the years to let this one go - it's the game AFTER this one that will be the killer - if they get that far. My thoughts on the subject anyway - looking forward to meeting you guys - I hope to be there by 12noon ish Cheers Mike[/quote] I meant the Grand Prix mate, football is for overpaimumblemumblerantrant.....