51m0n

Sussex then?

Cool, the thing you'll find with the slightly less basic arpeggios (6th, 7th etc) is that those extra notes are the colour of the chord, a minor chord with a major 6th (2nd chord in the Major scale series) supports the Dorain (2nd) mode. ALl this stuff is linked, but the arpeggios let you concentrate on the colour. It will take you a while to get this all going, but in doing this kind of experimentation and playing about you will rapidly expand the kind of things you come up with. Another brilliant way of changing what you play is to have a chord sequence, then put your bass done and sing/hum or mumble a line to go with it. Record the mumble, then figure it out on bass. In all likelihood it will be far more melodic, and interesting than anything you would come up with with a bass in your hands....

Simple question, can anyone recommend a DB luthier in or around Brighton for setting up a DB?

Yeah, definitely comes across as a realy nice bloke with a truly unlikely story. Enjoyed that a lot ta!

Couldnt get the track to play, so what I'm about to suggest may be useless This is really common IME. What to do? Well, try to work at arpeggios more, get less linear, break out of the box - there are umpteen different threads about effective ways to learn the fingerboard and so on, try some. Stop sitting down and saying I will jam now, instead go learn something new (minor sixth arpegios in two octaves for instance), then spend an hour playing with reordering the notes, so rather than going 1 - 3 - 5 - 6 - O, try 6 -3 - 1 - 5, just anything that stays with that new arpeggio set of notes. Allow yourself to dupicate notes (ie 3 -3 - 6 - 1 -5). This is all helped if you can get the underlying triads recorded to play over (under?) Dont worry what it sounds like yet, just experiment, use different octaves. Next really really really think about staccato vs legato, you are very likely (like most of us) to be fairly staccato, it helps in bands to make things feel tight, and to not be that big drone of mud. But its easy for this to become all you do, so spend some time working around note lengths, not cutting anything short. Mix it up. Rhythmically move away from down beats or straight eights, either go longer or more syncopated, you dont want to get shorter than 8ths, if you want flowing soaring lines IMO... You will probably find this lot generates a few new ideas. From there I'd look at sliding into notes, hammering on and pulling off notes (not all of them, the art is in where and when) to smooth the flow more. Just avoid anything to do with simple box shape scalar movement, thats whats most likely causing your issues... And thats just a single chord. Next try having just a couple of chords to move between.... Good luck!

[quote name='bassicinstinct' post='870572' date='Jun 18 2010, 10:31 AM']Should really have remembered this as I use one myself: [url="http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/en/behringer-ha-400/69204"]Behringer HA400[/url] Bomb proof IME and cheap as chips!![/quote] I'm always dubious about Behringer kit, but even they cant get this too wrong - can they??

A few thoughts/truths for you:- You can never ever have too much power (thats why god made volume knobs) 500w into an efficient 410 or really good 212 will be enough for almost any pub gig. ANy more and you need a decent PA. Some rooms are acoustically awful - nothing you can do about that but move your rig into a better position in the room A rig at ear height sounds better for everyone, a rig on the floor (single cab) is very hard to hear the mids from. Result: you turn up too loud for the audience in the room A rig close to the back wall (back of cab within 1') gets about +3dB boost from the boundary reflections. Use this to your advantage! Deep bass sounds great on its own, turns to mud live and gives the FOH guy areal headache. Being heard is all about the mids... Speaker diameter is not related to cab performance in any meaningful way, neither is port location. It just aint that simple people!!!!!! Any modern amp putting out 500w into 4Ohm will do the job, its then a question of tone, reliability, weight and features (not to mention labels here but...) Cabs are more important than amps, they produce more THD (excepting the case of a deliberate overdriving of the amp), have far more to do with the frequency response of the rig than the amp does, and the efficiency of the cab really does define the rigs real world volume. Go play a bunch of amps and cabs and find something you like the sound of, then ask here if people think its really up to the job, or if there is a better alternative to get the same kind of tone....

[quote name='deepbass5' post='870413' date='Jun 18 2010, 12:22 AM'].....Go for front ported cabs to assist the sound forward, rear ported cabs i think are a cop out by the designers to build a smaller cab that meets the maths. I never think they sound as good.....[/quote] Oh dear, we arent still going around this myth are we.... Have you heard a Berg ae112 or ae210??

[quote name='Musicman20' post='869874' date='Jun 17 2010, 01:33 PM']LH500 plus a decent 2x12 or 4x10.[/quote] Something like an Aggy db212 then

obbm for me too. Basically Dave's cables are exactly what I'd build if I were doing it for myself, but its actually cheaper for me to get them from Dave since:- a. he clearly buys bits in more bulk than me and that makes his leads very competitively priced b. it saves me the time of actually doing the manufacture myself So I pay about what I would for the bits plus a couple of bob and get the lead I would have made turn up with 0 effort. What is not to like about this deal?? It is clearly a win win situation for everyone (woot!) Oh and they are damned good quality cables too....

[quote name='51m0n' post='869827' date='Jun 17 2010, 12:29 PM']A full stack IS overkill, but fun (until you are packing up at 1:00am) What about a Hartke LH500 into a 4ohm Hartke 410? (OK I'm assuming they do it in 4Ohms). That would bring the thunder rather spectacularly....[/quote] Another alternative that defintely does the business is an LH500 into a Barefaced Compact (or 2). Not sure how far beyond your budget that would be though....

[quote name='razze06' post='869713' date='Jun 17 2010, 10:12 AM']Keep the peavey markIV head, and invest in a top quality cab (4x10, 2x12)?[/quote] Whilst I can understand this I honestly think a top quality 410 or 212 will really show this amps failings up - and although they are pretty near indestructible they have never sounded that good to me...

A full stack IS overkill, but fun (until you are packing up at 1:00am) What about a Hartke LH500 into a 4ohm Hartke 410? (OK I'm assuming they do it in 4Ohms). That would bring the thunder rather spectacularly....

[quote name='chris_b' post='869063' date='Jun 16 2010, 02:27 PM']So, as the specs for the AE212 are the same as an AE112 x 2, do I expect it to sound as massive and as loud as 2 AE112's? I know what 2 AE112's sound like and I would really expect the AE212 to sound pretty much the same, so is there a "hype fest" starting on TB? I'm surprised that Bergantino have gone for a 212 as it pretty well duplicates existing products.[/quote] Well we dont know whats actually going on inside it do we? We dont know if he is using exactly the same drivers (I would think he is) We dont know if he has tweaked the port tuning (quite possibly) We dont know if he has found a previously unknown seam of Bergantino's Magic Speaker Fairy Dust (tm) and used liberal doses of it on these new cabs But I doubt theres much more of a difference than there is between the ae410 and a pair of ae210s. The difference is there, but (to my ears when I A/B'ed them) it was close enough to insignificant to be not worth worrying about for my needs. The internal volume will almost certainly be a bit different, but how much of that is impacted upon by more bracing over the larger dimensions I couldnt hazard a guess at... Nevertheless reports on TB have stated that its a properly thunderous thing, and so on and so forth, so our American brethren are certainly starting to get their knickers in a proper twist over it aren't they

According to some Talkbass posts from people who have tried the preproduction versions the ae212 sounds MASSIVE and is hugely loud too. I would try both and see which ticks your tone box hardest. Be prepared for a long old mull! Dont think anyone can comment on whether or not a DB212 will be better or worse until they've compared the 2. The DB series are supposed to be ace cabs, but the Bergs are still the ones that get the "creme de la creme" tag and associated GAS from me

Warranty my bum, you've got 5 or 6 years peace of mind as a result of the Sale of Goods Act 1979. Worked for my washing machine going sploink 2 months out of warranty, should work for your amp to. You have to get independant verification that it has died through no act of abuse, which will cost a few quid, and its the seller who is liable to sort the issue out, not the manufacturer. You may have to make a small claim if the seller is dumb enough to argue the point (they will lose the case, this is a pretty clear cut law), you will then agree a fair price or repair/replacement if that is more viable. Make sure you quote the releavant parts of the Sale of Goods Act every time you speak to any representative of the seller, it really puts the pressure on them, and takes it off you. It could take a few weeks to get sorted. Give it a go! MB kit IS reliable, you've just been very unlucky, there are thousands and thousands of units out there and a very small nuber of failures get reported. Its a pretty good batting average.

You may have noticed I have few if any soft skills. And rarely gig You are therefore in all likelihood absolutely spot on! Hey ho

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='867530' date='Jun 14 2010, 10:01 PM']I suppose in a lot of ways I'm lucky in that I don't have to play with guitarists very often. In the musical areas I play even if there is a guitar, they're forced to be very subtle, which can only be a good thing. I'll be working with my old trio in July and the guitarist is very good, but I will need my earplugs in order to deal with the barrage of nasty noise he'll make. I liked Daz's comment in post #68 - Yes, we are always hearing from people that our basses are just a "guitar" - No, it's not a guitar you moron - It's a bass! And that it must be an easy job - Nope, it's as involved as any musical instrument if you learn to play it properly. It takes years of practise, a good teacher and a lot of experience to become a good bass player. So I hereby declare that anyone calling our magnificent instrument a "guitar" from now on should be deserving of a slow and painful death... [/quote] How about a banjo? My mum always used to refer to my bass as a banjo (mainly cos I'd go all red in the face and steam would come out me ears), is that OK?

That is ace. Really inventive. Loved it!

Thats not silly, its just naughty!

[quote name='dan670844' post='866533' date='Jun 13 2010, 10:07 PM']I still think it could be a porting issue. the whole idea of ports is to help with the lows / make the cab more efficient at the low end. to do this they need air.[b] I used a couple of front ported 2x10's once (they where avatars) all I had to do a gig. On there own they sounded great, stacked they sounded like a tranny radio. There was some crazy air robbing thing going on I guess[/b]. My advice would be try one cab on its own and play with the EQ. See what you get at low volumes. I don't know what 10's you have in your cab but most (except high end stuff) can only handle 70Hz at the low end with any sort of efficiency. So if you want the low end beef you need a matched 15" that can handle 35Hz. But don't loose heart if its an old Peavey, Trace Elliot, Carlsbro or Laney. They where pretty amazing and there isn't much these days with that low punch at a reasonable price point, Different days![/quote] That sounds much more like an out of phase pair of speakers to me. That is internally wired out of phase - yes it can happen! Porting the cab adds that lower octave back - that is the point of it. 35Hz is an octave below 70Hz... The point is cab design defines the cabs frequency range, not driver design (so much). Example:- I have a couple of pairs of old TDL hifi speakers at home, Studio 0.75ms and RTL3s, the .75s have a 6" metal cone, the RTLs have a pair of 8" reinforced paper cones. The RTLs are significantly larger. Which is bassier? Well on first listen the .75s are far deeper, they are a Transmission Line 1/4 wavelength design, massively efficient in extremely deep bass - they go way lower than anything else I've heard, even though they only have a 6" cone! They suffer a lack of low mid detail though. The RTLs have masses of low mid detail: one of the pair of drivers provides for low mid, the other is at the end of a transmission line. In fact they extend about as deep as the .75s but as they are so even it doesnt really sound like they do - they dont rob the mids to show off the bass in other words. The RTLs have a higher impedance but are nevertheless way more sensitive than the .75ms My point? Speaker diameter alone does not bear relevance to the depth a cab can deliver, the timbre of the cab, or its sensitivity. Alex C and BFM have both repeatedly stated that getting hung up on driver diameter and wattage (thermal handling) is missing the point completely.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='865869' date='Jun 13 2010, 12:31 PM']You do have boundary cancellation, which leads to the apparent effect that lows don't become audible until you reach a distance from a cab. The explanation offered there might be wrong. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=38232&view=findpost&p=380903"]Citation.[/url][/quote] Yes, I agree, I even mentioned this! Thus 'throw' is not real, instead it is the result of cancellation with boundary reflections giving the impression of 'throw'. [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='865869' date='Jun 13 2010, 12:31 PM']Speaker diameter does effect the dispersion pattern or a speaker though, and since that would effect what frequencies are radiating around the driver sides and back, would therefore effect which ones are going to be bouncing off the walls there. There is also a correlation between cone diameter and frequency response off axis, which is where most ears will be, so there is an audible difference. [url="http://lowdownlowdown.com/greenboy/DL/tablesfrequency.htm"]Beaming frequencies[/url]. Bigger speakers also tend toward great volume displacement and sensitivity, because they are bigger, so you can get more lows than from an otherwise equivalent smaller diameter speaker.[/quote] Beaming is where the frequencies [b]above[/b] a certain point disperse less well. Look in the table you linked to and that is 1Khz for a 15" and 1.6KHz for a 10" cone. Below that you have less beaming issues. Low frequencies disperse evenly. He was lacking oomph, which is to be found in the lo mids normally, or around 250-400Hz. Where beaming is not an issue. These are the frequencies that [b]do[/b] radiate around the back and sides, and that therefore [b]do[/b] suffer cancellation from rear wall refelcetions out of phase.

[quote name='Count Bassie' post='864361' date='Jun 11 2010, 02:31 PM']Pretty good point- location in relation to ears! I was hearing a band once at a bar in Miami (Churchill's Hedeaway, if any of you "blokes" have spent any time in Miami)- Charlie Picket and the MC3. The bass player (Marco Petit, gone now, sorry) was playing his old Precision through an SWR Bassic 350 / Goliath II cab. Loud and clear, it was the most beautiful wooly sound I'd ever heard. The stage was about 4' off the floor and from a sitting position it was coming right at my head and chest. And it was perfect for the band. Wow. The way you percieve sound as a player and from out front are quite different. And... what you dial into your rig on your own and what it sounds like in the band mix-very different. What can come off as 'ugly' solo'd might really be perfect in the band. I'd consider that adding a lot of low-bass boost can bury your band in murk, and takes more power from your amp to produce. Also, the bass guitar isn't really a "fundamental bass" instrument by nature- it's really producing mids and harmonics, mostly. So rather than trying to produce lows, you want to discover what feels and sounds good in the band's mix. And now I'm going off, I'll stop... But, don't spend any more money- spend some time. Here's a link with some basics that seems solid: [url="http://bassguitarrocks.com/bass-amp-eq-for-beginners"]http://bassguitarrocks.com/bass-amp-eq-for-beginners[/url] Here's an interesting eq experience from an electric/upright doubler: [url="http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2008/Mar/Bass_EQ_Basics.aspx"]http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issu..._EQ_Basics.aspx[/url][/quote] Sorry but the information in the first link is just utter nonsense. No bass cabs 'throw', rather sound gets quieter according to the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law"]Inverse Square Law[/url] in all cases, bass is no different. In other words the volume decreases by half as the distance from the source is doubled. That is an immutable law of acoustics. If you walk through a room and the sound level in the bass raises and lowers this is a result of standing wave nodes within that space, additive nodes increase the volume where reflections from the walls combine with the sound from the source in phase, subtractive nodes decrease the volume where reflection from the walls combine with the sound from the source out of phase. Putting blankets and egg boxes on a wall will change the way bass reflects of it in no way at all. Bass travels directly through these. Egg boxes have no practically useful acoustic properties whatsoever. Studios use serios depths of high and mid density rockwool in corners from floor to ceiling behind acoustically suitable fabric to act as bass traps, not egg shells. The rule of thumb in that link about speaker diameter and distance from a wall is also tosh. There is no such link at all between cone diamter and distance or indeed speaker frequency response. Keep your cab as close to the wall as you can. Bass frequencies radiate in all directions equally regardless of source (ie rear vs front ported). Over a couple of feet to about 10ft is a bad place to put a cab, since the reflection off the backwall will be out of phase with the directly radiated sound from the speaker in frequency ranges very important to your bass sound (ie below 150Hz), precise frequncy of phase cancellation is dependant upon the distance. In contrast putting your cab in the middle of the room is not an issue at all. Except for the audience tripping over it. Bottom line, if you cant hear your cab, start with the eq flat, the cab up high so that its pointing at your head, get the back of the cab within 6" of the back wall. Get the whole band to play, turn up your rig until you can hear yourself clearly. Have a long lead/wireless wander into the room and listen to the balance of the bass. Too much boom - knock back the bass Too honky - knock the mids back a bit Too bright - knock back the top Simple. However remember that if a venue fills up with a lot of soft bodies then they will soak up treblle and mids and reflections in those frequencies. If the in empty venue you sound just right, then you probably need a tad more mids and treble, so knock the bass back a smidge, and turn everythin up....

Nice link, sounds the canine undercarriage doesnt it!

The diameter of the driver is not that relevant to timbre or loudness. Cab design, internal volume, porting etc are far more relevant. Also important is XMAX of the drivers, thermal rating etc. Diameter is about the one thing that isnt particularly relevant to something as gross as overall tonality/timbre/frequency range/volume/sensitivity of a cab. A 410 will usually be larger (thus go deeper) than a 115. A 410 moves more air than a 115 if they all have about the same XMAX. Some modern drivers have significantly higher XMAX than older drivers though, they need more wattage to make use of that XMAX. Quick and dirty supporting calculation (not giving a damn about cone depth): [u]115[/u] 1 * (pi * (7.5^2)) = 176.714587 [u]410[/u] 4 * (pi * (5^2)) = 314.159265 2x210s is usually pretty equivalent to 1x410 assuming the total volume is also equivalent, same drivers in both blah blah. The sensitivity of the finished cab is very important, unfortunately the manufacturers specs are generally utter tosh (they are ususally measured at 1KHz, and are often liberally coated with marketting fairy dust, or lies as I like to think of them). So you just cannot trust them... My 410 is louder (significantly) than Plux's 210, 115 stack. By rights his stack should move more air, (larger cone area), but my cab is more sensitive, and I suspect the cones have a higher XMAX than the older cones in his stack. Timbrally they are actually not a million miles apart however, different for sure, but not chalk and cheese. Another filthy rough calculation... [u]210 + 115 stack[/u] (2 * (pi * (5^2))) + (pi * (7.5^2)) = 333.794219