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[quote name='Zoe_BillySheehan' post='486794' date='May 13 2009, 12:02 PM']I always wish i'd took lessons. and sat down and learnt theory properly. I guess it isn't too late though Z x[/quote] I'm 39 this year I'm looking to get my reading up to scratch over the next two years Jazzier walking stuff as well I could teach a willing student the basics to intermediate theory in about 3 months. I could set you up with the right exercises to get your bass neck learnt in under 6 months. Cant make you do it, cant find the time to do as much as I'd like either You are definitely young enough!

Its mainly a technique thing IMO. To pop properly you only have to lift the string off the board far enough for it to hit the last fret when it bounces back. If you are digging in more than this then you are wasting effort, damaging your fingers more than you need to and slowing yourself down. You are also making the difference in volume between slapping popping and fingerstyle greater in all probability. If when you lessen the volume of popping by laying off like this, you thumping is too loud, then give yourself a break and do that more quietly too. Really never ceases to amaze me how hard people think they have to bash their bass to sound good. Way back in the day when people started doing this stuff they had some valid excuses for beating on their gear: (amps were rubbish, paasive electronics werent as good as they are now, strings were flats or tapecore or whatever. Nowadays a very average rig, with a £250 bass will come out of the shop set up better than the vinatge guys gear was, it will be far more sensitive and way easier to play. So make your life easier by playing it 'properly'.

[quote name='Rich' post='486654' date='May 13 2009, 09:39 AM']This is my single favourite youtube vid. The first time I heard this piece I nearly wept. Utterly beautiful and my favourite solo bass piece ever. Adhan is well up there too.[/quote] He makes it all look so unbelievably easy as well. I mean, not only is he changing tunings all over the place, using some frankly bizarre plucking methods to generate those rhythms, but, and its a BIG but, thats a 3 octave fretless board, up the top it must be like a bl00dy violin to intonate If he wasn't such a thoroughly nice bloke it would be very easy to dislike him

[quote name='AM1' post='486510' date='May 12 2009, 11:40 PM']You know when we were talking about that late pop - well I thought we were both talking about the same section after 2 mins..which is why I couldn't find it. Now I listened again - 11 seconds! I know what you're gonna be doing tomorrow evening! Ouch, I sense some even more gruesome exercises coming my way! Your serve, DarkLord![/quote] Nope, 11 seconds in is fine - no pops in there, muted thumps, and I like how they feel all the way through The section at 2:00 m ins IS the place where I can here one late pop. But I'm not telling exactly where. It cant be very bad since you've given up on it now Thats made my day!

[quote name='AM1' post='486408' date='May 12 2009, 09:37 PM']Yes, now that I can see how grossly lacking my LH technique really was, it puts it in context why I was compensating so much with my right hand. But also, the difference in leverage on the left hand is really considerable. This explains a lot about the problems I was having in the last few weeks.[/quote] You'll be surprised. The knowledge that there was something wrong was the breakthrough. Now you have the information to mend your technique. That awareness of how will soon enough take you down a practice schedule that will eventually make the most of your left hand, rather than having it as an anchor holding you back it will become one of your assets, purely because you have concentrated on it [quote name='AM1' post='486408' date='May 12 2009, 09:37 PM']Grossly so - I was getting so down in the last few weeks because of keeping waking up with pain in my left hand fingers the day after practicing. That was becoming a limiting factor - there were quite a few days when I woke up and couldn't even clench my index and middle finger - that's when I was thinking..is this going to keep causing me a problem, I need to figure out what is going on here![/quote] That is dangerous, lay off for a week, or you'll end up like me with recurring RSI if I'm not super careful of my left wrist. Mine came from over extension - driving myself to huge stretches to prove that I could. Regret it now, there were alternative approaches that would have caused less or no damage.... [quote name='AM1' post='486408' date='May 12 2009, 09:37 PM']Oh totally - the breakthrough I had been seeking for weeks and weeks![/quote] Top! Thats what you needed. [quote name='AM1' post='486408' date='May 12 2009, 09:37 PM']Definitely some good material there - but it's easy to fall into "coasting" - it's time to take the next step![/quote] Tah, so much of it is old old old stuff, but it represents some really pivotal moments for me... [quote name='AM1' post='486408' date='May 12 2009, 09:37 PM']I am the opposite, because bass is not my first instrument, I can read proficiently but when I sit down with bass music, I know instantly what the notes are on the music, but I have to keep thinking about where they are on the bass. My fretboard knowledge is limited. Also, I have become very lazy with that because now I can rely on ear playing, actually to the extent where I can play enough patterns over chords that I have got through full rehearsals/gigs without knowing most of the time what notes I am playing! That is really disconcerting after spending years knowing every single note you play! I think the bass is an instrument that can predispose you into becoming an ear player very easily, partly because it is tuned in 4ths and because of the symmetrical pattern potential - for example you will always get a major triad by playing the same three notes in the same intervals on the fretboard...that predisposition of the instrument because of identical intervals, is also in part, detrimental to exploring the realms of music theory/reading. I'm in a halfway house - do I take the full leap into learning the entire fretboard and going mad on reading music, or do I accept the total mindset change into being a "pattern" player/ear player, that doesn't need to know the notes. I asked several people about this and they unanimously said, forget learning the fretboard..if you (re)learn modes, learn the patterns, forget learning the scale degrees. That's very workable in the short term, but I think it will become limiting in the longer term.[/quote] Learn the notes, not the patterns (the patterns come from the notes anyway). Patterns is faster, but [b]far[/b] more limiting in the long run! I wish I had done it the harder way from the start, otherwise reading and any other task directly linked to theory (complex jazz improve) is super tough. Why I'm pants at jazz and walking and reading. You have no excuse I am working daily on getting my reading and fretboard note knowledge as good as my basic technique. Thats my goal, cos then I'll be at a place I want to be again. Time being what it is, its a journey I might not complete, but I'm enjoying it nevertheless, with maturity patience may have come...... [quote name='AM1' post='486408' date='May 12 2009, 09:37 PM']Oh dear - I've spent most of the day rewriting a piece of crap code! Glad Basschat exists![/quote] Story of my life! Iterate your dev/unit testing cycle properly, be a better developer than the swine who left you that unmaintainable garbage you are now faced with fixing! Peace.

[quote name='AM1' post='486366' date='May 12 2009, 08:58 PM']Equally, thank you for the advice! I've just spent two hours working through left hand damping and right hand string crossing and what a difference already! I was totally trying to damp too much with the right hand and my left technique was a mess. Already I can see that even playing two notes on two different strings, I can use my left hand as a pivot and the finger that just played a note then becomes a dampener when the next note is played. I know there's a long hard slog ahead though, this is just the start, but I'm so grateful to you for having the time and patience to explain all of that. Already I can see a major change in my left hand position, but I really have to concentrate to keep my non-fretting fingers close to the fretboard, but definitely a lot less energy and effort going into fretting the notes now. I'm really excited![/quote] Now you are getting it. Try and keep you LH thumb behind your LH middle finger and about halfway up the back of the neck. Gives best leverage. You were playing with half your dampers shot, not good, just like in a rally car Were you seriously over stressing your LH fingers to fret a note? Really pleased for you, this will be another hike to a new plateau for your playing, enjoy the trip! [quote name='AM1' post='486366' date='May 12 2009, 08:58 PM']I will. I know what you mean about changing life priorities - it's very difficult to keep things going sometimes...but don't lose sight of it completely...you can always start off small and scale up...there's still so much more you can do.[/quote] Well hence the recording at my friends studio, working stuff out etc [quote name='AM1' post='486366' date='May 12 2009, 08:58 PM']I've taken that exact same attitude with other stuff I've been doing a long time and it was a road to nowhere for me eventually. It's classic complacency. It's a really dangerous place to get to - because in reaching a certain goal and enjoying the view...there's nowhere left to climb...classic plateau after decades of time and effort. When you think you have reached full potential, there is always somewhere else to go. That, for me, has been the difference, in other disciplines, between being good and being truly great. I could not see it at the time, but I can now. Self limiting attitude is very, very difficult to personally recognise and admit, except retrospectively. Don't make the same mistake.[/quote] Been getting down to some reading work recently. Its more like bike riding than I thought, I'm sooooo rusty and I was never any good, but its nto all gone (not in 1st position anyway!). One day I will show my eldest boy that dad can read the dots (he blows me away at sight reading at the mo, but he started age 6, I started playing at 20, reading at 24!) [quote name='AM1' post='486366' date='May 12 2009, 08:58 PM']Yeah! Same goes for teaching, clearly! But...small steps...don't write it off...think on it.[/quote] Hey I'm a software engineer by day, the analysis side of that helped figure out your issue too. Weird that!

[quote name='alexclaber' post='486321' date='May 12 2009, 08:26 PM']I saw Baby Charles a few weeks back, a funk diva* who sings in a few other bands with part of the line-up works with my lady. Their guitarist is excellent, a real funk monster and they have a great vintage vibe. Personally I think their bassist isn't quite on it - he's a double bassist and doesn't seem to have twigged that on bass guitar the notes sustain much more and need dealing with. Still hard grooving but it was just bugging me that he could have lifted things more if he worked both ends of the note. *In fact, she was asking me about joining a funk band she wants to put together but I'm a little busy right now, so if you fancy a funk entrée do let me know. Alex[/quote] Funny you should say that. Their bassist, Simon, was the guitarist in One Major Close, and the funkiest player I have ever worked with. A real talent. He came up with the basis of the b-line in both the One Major Close tracks on my myspace page before I joined. I just took his ideas to another level. I dont think he's in the same league as a bass player, but it works just fine for them, and I think they have a really unique sound (Dione's voice is fantastically full on). Wouldn't mind an intro, mate, cant hurt to see whats occuring thanks!

[quote name='YouMa' post='486229' date='May 12 2009, 06:27 PM']How often do you listen to the type of music that you want to play,it sounds daft but sometimes people forget to just listen, its very important.Works for me anyway.[/quote] Its funny you say that. I listened to funk almost exclusively for a while. Now I rarely do, but I cant help but play funky

[quote name='AM1' post='486220' date='May 12 2009, 06:19 PM']Oh absolutely, people love this stuff on a live set and I don't just mean musos. You can't fail to feel that funk! When you say you don't know where to start - it's back to that other side of the coin for you - to put all the work into technique, the balance is lost on actually getting it together to make it happen in a live context. When you said to me, I need to go off and do a torturous amount of work on technique - yes, absolutely, but for you, the torturous work has to be off your own back in terms of networking and delving into the scene - and Brighton really is a hub for music, but if you don't tap into it, that great funk won't get out. There's no question in my mind that this is up there with the great groove players and also no question that you should be holding down the low end in an immensely funky band. It seems almost unbelievable that you're not! What a criminal waste! That's an [b]insane [/b] waste of work, talent and natural funk ability. It may be a purist mindset but I think with funk, you either have innately funky phrasing or not and you definitely have it, in spades. There's nowhere near enough great modern day funk of this calibre. Don't underestimate my message here. You should go away and seriously think about what I am saying.[/quote] Well thanks again! For the very kind words. I'm not out there gigging any more as I have a family to look after, and a day job. Getting into which required so much effort in retraining and networking that I essentially stopped playing for over 3 years. Hence I've lost contact with the local scene completely. The last band I was gigging with regularly was One Major Close, and that was exactly what you are talking; about super funky, everyone loved it who saw it. For various reasons it broke up, the remains went on through various incarnations to become Baby Charles, and very excellent they are too! Check them out.... [url="http://www.babycharles.co.uk/home/index.php"]Baby Charles[/url] The time I spent working exclusively on technique was years before that, I'm technically not as accomplished now (by some margin), but I do think my feel is way better, and my ear too. Plus I've learnt the most important thing, once you can do it you dont have to. That alone I think took a long time, and was as a result of the time away from playing. Nothing I love more than playing a truly banging funk set mind, just got to make that connection to a band and find the time to get a set of songs together. Not easy with family, day job blah blah blah Still its nice to know I havent lost me touch innit

[quote name='steve-soar' post='486198' date='May 12 2009, 05:58 PM']Yes and we all came through it a little bit stronger, group hug. [/quote] Classic! Like an episode of The Cosby Show

[quote name='AM1' post='486191' date='May 12 2009, 05:49 PM']This stuff really needs to see the light of day, there isn't enough of this around![/quote] Yeah well us bass players may think so, and the band that did Flute Beast is now kind of "Baby Charles" (guitarist is the bassist now) - who you might have heard of (Craig Charles digs them a lot on his funk show) When we were gigging as One Major Close we never did a bad gig, always rammed places, punters dancing on tables etc. That was with an entirely originals set! But I honestly wouldnt know how to get this stuff out there, you know, ideas I'm having. I just do it for a laugh these days. Dont know where I'd find a band to play this in Brighton...

[quote name='AM1' post='486183' date='May 12 2009, 05:42 PM']It sounds like you're as much of a perfectionist as me, but if you really want me to try and pick it out, I will. But what sounds glaring to you, is probably imperceptible to the majority of listeners! I'm exactly the same though, ultra picky. It's a mixed blessing and a curse but overall not a bad thing! Most of the time![/quote] Oh yeah, hence all the time mulling over technique at a 'Zen' level If I had my time again I'd have worked more on reading and walking, you get paid for that! Feel free to try and pick it out, I dont mind, Its enough that you haven't said - that one there - straight away and been right!

[quote name='alexclaber' post='486174' date='May 12 2009, 05:37 PM']I think in the petite genre of multi-tracked solo bass funk it stacks up pretty well - could certainly teach the esteemed Mr Wooten a thing or two about tone too. Alex P.S. So who else really plays funk bass in this town? We need to get a proper scene happening![/quote] Hold on, you reckon it could teach VW about tone - I read that the other way around first time - clearly I'm far too English! Cripes matey, well thank you! Bl00dy hell.....

[quote name='alexclaber' post='486174' date='May 12 2009, 05:37 PM']I think in the petite genre of multi-tracked solo bass funk it stacks up pretty well - could certainly teach the esteemed Mr Wooten a thing or two about tone too. Alex P.S. So who else really plays funk bass in this town? We need to get a proper scene happening![/quote] Jeez, I need to find a bleedin band who'll have me. I'm so out of touch with the Brighton scene that I have no idea where to look for a band or people interested in doing funk locally (especially not with an old b@stard like meself!) I've been happily trucking over to Chi to record with old mates and do the very occasional gig that I've not even really thought about getting a local band going... Really want to see your lot live though Alex, bit you seem slightly tied up with some new fangled cabs mate

[quote name='AM1' post='486170' date='May 12 2009, 05:32 PM']Haha, is it the pop at the start of the section? I'm not going to be evil enough to try and pick it out, even though you have constructed some hideous DarkLord exercises which have devastated my evenings for the foreseeable! As for sending it off as a potential demo - no, I don't see it as brash, not at all. You clearly really love this instrument (and I can totally see why!) - so share your enthusiasm! What have you got to lose? You've obviously put a lot of work into it and it's a really, really effective demonstration of the sheer amount of tonal possibilities with this instrument. It would be criminal not to do something with this piece of work![/quote] Nope not the one at the beginning. Jeez I must be overreacting - it sounds really glaring to me - it only happens once as they whole section is not copied and pasted fortunately. Its a pig to play which is why after an evening of mucking about with that bit, when I got that take with all the nice little melodic runs just how I was aiming for I just went with that one, didnt really notice the wayward pop for a few days, and really dont want another evening to et it as good everywhere else but sans late pop.... Especially now you cant hear it!!!! Maybe I'll PM Gard over at Talkbass about it as a possible demo - if he's interested then....

[quote name='alexclaber' post='486159' date='May 12 2009, 05:23 PM']How very English of you! Alex[/quote] How true! Hmmmm, should I though? Is it that good? Not looking for trumpet blowing, but its kind of just me letting go and enjoying writing something, so not the best it could be, you know.... What if they tell me its poo! How could I face the rejection

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='486143' date='May 12 2009, 05:14 PM']I was quite enjoying the slanging match this morning - From a spectator's point of view it was more entertaining than TV. But then again, there's never anything worth watching on the TV![/quote] ROFL - yeah it was cracking that wasnt it! Reminds me of my youngest - although more often than not his arguments end in a big fat wet raspberry being blown at you - we need more raspberries on the forum!

[quote name='AM1' post='486128' date='May 12 2009, 05:05 PM']That is one seriously versatile bass!! Ha, you just answered my next question before I even asked it! In the verse...the main groove line lies under what sounds like a 2 octave bass part above it..how did you get that almost wah effect? Purely with compression?! Sounds good! Is the late click around 2.27? Tasty fills in the verse! I actually thought initially that the higher register parts in the first track were possibly guitar too, had to listen really closely! You've constructed an excellent demonstration of the versatility of this bass - I think you should send it to Roscoe![/quote] Its a ridiculous instrument. I love it! The Verse (ie the first groove) is just a single track of slapped bass with no pops. The strings were new (when I started, I killed them doing this track over the course of several evenings). Part of why it sounds like it does is that its mainly a slapped B string, which is huuuuuge sounding, and the compression kind of 'glues in' the deep bass and the nice bright string sound. Also the fact that its 100% neck pup has a lot to do with that timbre. Not a lot of people really try all neck pup for a slap tone, I think people are so used to both pups 50/50 when slapping that they never get away from that sound. This bass has classic bartolini soap bars and preamp in it, which must be something to do with the sound. It does have a really great 'grind' to it in that section doesn't it! Realy though, no other fx there at all..... The late pop is not at 2.27, keep guessing If only I can hear it then thats brilliant! I'm not going to tell you exactly where it is though - I'm too vain Don't know if I'd have the audacity to send it to Roscoe as a potential demo, thats kind of brash isn't it?

[quote name='AM1' post='486105' date='May 12 2009, 04:44 PM']I knew it! You, of course, are entirely innocent. Where have you been anyway, you're late to the party! You missed all the funny parts where we hurled childish insults at each other![/quote] Yes, you manged to call nearly everyone a knob didnt you? Masterful, I thought

[quote name='AM1' post='486071' date='May 12 2009, 04:17 PM']Thanks for the link, I'll take a look. Did you use that same bass to record all the bass parts? What's the effect on the higher register parts, it's a bit synthy and an almost wah effect? I'm really surprised that there's flat EQ in the middle 8! No effects at all?? The part that comes in 2.08 is insanely funky! Seriously, that's pure FUNK! I am a slave to the funk - no matter how hard I try to resist and branch into other styles, it lures me back! Sounds like a great bass - but technique is king, as you've demonstrated so well.[/quote] One bass for all the parts - its got a huge number of tones in it - all good it appears! Chorus high register there are two tracks, LHS is a slapped part with the preamp sucking all bass out ans rolled onto bridge pup, sounds like a clav a bit. RHS is 50/50 mix of pups slapped with an envelope filter on it (only effect I used other than the compressor - honest!!) - its a freeware VSTi envelope filteer (Classic Envelope I think its called, part of a large collection). Its an excellent filter effect for the money Chorus Low register is fingerstyle neck pup 100% Verse id slapped, no pops, neck pup 100% Middle 8 has no effects other than a bit of compression (which is on the whole bass group in fact). No eq. Its slapped, the only pops are the little offbeats clicks, they're all muted (one is a bit late actually - damned annoying!). Really glad you like it. It took a lot of work to get that take I'm afraid, I'm really interested in trying to write more melodic slap lines when I can get away with it. In terms of what you can do with bass, and if you want a real laugh, listen to Skatabug, the 'guitar' part is the same bass, right up top register of the neck on the D & G strings, preamp used to remove all bass and mid, put through a comp set just so, added a touch of chorus, no pitch shifting at all. Completely convinced my guitarist that I'd found another guitar player. ROFL!

I would just reiterate - its got NO EQ. Its not just cos its a great instrument. All basses sound better to my ears the less you eq them. No one has said yet anything other than what a great bass tone is in 'What It Is', most people assume its this amp, that cab, loads of eq, clever effects - its not. Its just a nice compressor and flat eq. Try it on your bass. Just be sure to have fairly new strings.

[quote name='AM1' post='486015' date='May 12 2009, 03:12 PM']OK yeah I can see it now. Very free form! Great grooves - this is the stuff I absolutely love! That track "What It Is" - IMMENSE bass sound!!! That's one filthy groove too! How did you get that sound? That sound at 2.08 - yeah! That's what I'm talking about! The sound up to 2.08 is very old style Ampeg-ish but I'm sensing it was not an Ampeg head! Very clever rhythmic syncopation. That's outrageously funky![/quote] Now you're making me blush :blush: Thank you. 'What It Is' is neat isnt it! Right little pant swinger IMO. A little thread on that track - goes into where the inspiration came from (guitarist rock nonsense), and how I got all the bass sounds in some detail:- [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=46803"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=46803[/url] To cut a long story short, thats my Roscoe Century Standard 5 string direct (every part). No mic'ing of amps at all. That middle 8 bit is with all eq flat, and just favouring the bridge pickup a hint. There is no EQ post production, but for the top parts in the chorus I scooped out the bass with the onboard preamp. So I guess you get what you pay for - its the most expensive bass I've ever played (unfortunately replacing it would cost significantly more now the exchange rate has gone bonkers). I got it from Mark at [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk"]http://www.bassdirect.co.uk[/url], and it is an amazing instrument. Cant recommend Mark enough.

Tune up a fifth and be ready to hear a clankkkkkk sound as the E snaps!

[quote name='AM1' post='485998' date='May 12 2009, 03:01 PM']Haha, no way, that's cool! I can't wait to hear the music! Will definitely be interesting coming from a games developer! I found a CPC 464 emulator recently - now my basslines sound even more like 80's computer games![/quote] Being a confirmed ABC Warriors nut, if they get this wrong I will go Joe Pineapples on their collective butts, except for the transvestite thing; I'd look ridiculous, I mean really!

Dont know why you cant see my sig.... [url="http://www.myspace.com/simonnaishbass"]My MySpace Page[/url] Flutebeast is very much a freeformed funk groove, if you know what I mean, none of the fills are worked out at all really. In fact the whole song dynamic came from playing and jamming it a lot....