51m0n

I would just reiterate - its got NO EQ. Its not just cos its a great instrument. All basses sound better to my ears the less you eq them. No one has said yet anything other than what a great bass tone is in 'What It Is', most people assume its this amp, that cab, loads of eq, clever effects - its not. Its just a nice compressor and flat eq. Try it on your bass. Just be sure to have fairly new strings.

[quote name='AM1' post='486015' date='May 12 2009, 03:12 PM']OK yeah I can see it now. Very free form! Great grooves - this is the stuff I absolutely love! That track "What It Is" - IMMENSE bass sound!!! That's one filthy groove too! How did you get that sound? That sound at 2.08 - yeah! That's what I'm talking about! The sound up to 2.08 is very old style Ampeg-ish but I'm sensing it was not an Ampeg head! Very clever rhythmic syncopation. That's outrageously funky![/quote] Now you're making me blush :blush: Thank you. 'What It Is' is neat isnt it! Right little pant swinger IMO. A little thread on that track - goes into where the inspiration came from (guitarist rock nonsense), and how I got all the bass sounds in some detail:- [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=46803"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=46803[/url] To cut a long story short, thats my Roscoe Century Standard 5 string direct (every part). No mic'ing of amps at all. That middle 8 bit is with all eq flat, and just favouring the bridge pickup a hint. There is no EQ post production, but for the top parts in the chorus I scooped out the bass with the onboard preamp. So I guess you get what you pay for - its the most expensive bass I've ever played (unfortunately replacing it would cost significantly more now the exchange rate has gone bonkers). I got it from Mark at [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk"]http://www.bassdirect.co.uk[/url], and it is an amazing instrument. Cant recommend Mark enough.

Tune up a fifth and be ready to hear a clankkkkkk sound as the E snaps!

[quote name='AM1' post='485998' date='May 12 2009, 03:01 PM']Haha, no way, that's cool! I can't wait to hear the music! Will definitely be interesting coming from a games developer! I found a CPC 464 emulator recently - now my basslines sound even more like 80's computer games![/quote] Being a confirmed ABC Warriors nut, if they get this wrong I will go Joe Pineapples on their collective butts, except for the transvestite thing; I'd look ridiculous, I mean really!

Dont know why you cant see my sig.... [url="http://www.myspace.com/simonnaishbass"]My MySpace Page[/url] Flutebeast is very much a freeformed funk groove, if you know what I mean, none of the fills are worked out at all really. In fact the whole song dynamic came from playing and jamming it a lot....

[quote name='AM1' post='485959' date='May 12 2009, 02:27 PM']I sense a fellow purist! [/quote] Then this will interest you I think:- [url="http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=24705"]http://www.2000adonline.com/forum/viewtopi...=21&t=24705[/url]

[quote name='AM1' post='485942' date='May 12 2009, 02:10 PM']Yes I've done quite a bit of work on dynamic control on the right hand, that element is passable, it was the other issues really impeding progress. I can actually see it in my left hand that there's too much movement, this is why I was trying to compensate with my right hand, by damping with my ring finger. A question - when you spent that 4 yrs working on technique..when you now play a piece of music, do you have to individually work out for each note, which fingers you use to damp the other strings, or have you practiced that left hand damping in so many scale positions that it is now automatic no matter which fret/string you're playing on?[/quote] When I play now, 95% of the time its entirely instinctive - has been for a very long time. Dampening is generally just not an issue at all. But every now and the you find a piece that requires a bit more concentration. A good example is Freak Out by Chic. Its not very hard really, but to play it plucking every note to speed it can really matter which finger you lead with (esp if you use two fingers to pluck with) so that the first C on the A string is played with your RH middle finger. Why? Because its longer than your index so makes ascending a tiny bit easier. That kind of thing does require a moments thought, but it shows itself up when you start bringing things up to speed - for me anyway. The you figure out your strategy and carry on. If you are grooving away and free forming a funk line then you never ever think about it. If you go to my myspace page (see sig below) and listen to the track Flute Beast (sorry for the poor recording, it was live off a single mic) that groove is the kind of thing I mean. There is masses of string skipping, muting (the verses are effectively the chorus groove but more staccato) etc going on, no unwanted ringing of strings (promise) and no thought at all for dampening strings with either hand. It just happens... Obviously practicing getting that index finger working better is the real answer, but any little edge you can get helps.

[quote name='AM1' post='485952' date='May 12 2009, 02:19 PM']Hahaha! "When he was ready, it was Nemesis himself who came for him.." [/quote] Wow. A lady who knows her 2000AD. Much much respect

[quote name='AM1' post='485931' date='May 12 2009, 02:02 PM']Oh I will! Thanks for zapping my Tuesday evening, uh and probably every other evening, you evil DarkLord of the bass! [/quote] Deadlock: "You'll learn to deal with Khaos, or Khaos will deal with you..." 'Nuff said!

Not problem, let me know how you get on

I think my first bought new bass was a white fretted one of those (£~£250 IIRC in ~1991) Ridiculously tight string spacing, but very very low action. I'd may be offer him £100 tops for a mint one except there are way better solutions around now.....

[quote name='AM1' post='485864' date='May 12 2009, 01:03 PM']I think you are right!!!! I just watched a video of my playing and there is no way my fingers are all half a cm away from the strings. I do find it quite difficult to keep the other fingers close to the fretboard. So, quite clearly, because I am using that floating thumb technique, I have got away with not cultivating proper left hand technique and this is what is hindering me when I try and do anchor on the pickup playing. Actually, this explains a lot - [b]I am seriously amazed that you could work this out from a forum![/b] I am so, so, SOOO not looking forward to the practice session that awaits me tonight!![/quote] I spent 4 years of my life working on technique first and everything else waaaaay after. I could physically play almost anything i had ever heard at one point (before weird Garrison techniques and double thumping came along). Certainly cant make the same claim now, and I didnt understand everything I could play by any means, but my technique was super solid. I taught people basic to advanced technique and basic to midle-ing theory for 15 years on and off. LH cr@pness is easy to spot and hard to fix (fingers wiggle about miles off the fretboard is a dead giveaway) RH cr@pness is harder to spot (often) and easier to fix (its physically easier to do it right IMO for most people, its quite tricky to work out exactly where its going wrong) One other point, most people play too hard with their RH. You dont have to play pianissimo all the time, but if you play hard to begin with you cant dig in as far when you need to, it wont have the same huge effect when you do, and you will tend to fret to hard, be more tense and play less well as a result.

[quote name='tombboy' post='485846' date='May 12 2009, 12:50 PM']Reading all of this about LH damping and RH doobrie-ing has made me realise how crap I am and that I need to practice more!! Thanks for that Ann-Marie... you patient, fastidious, determined bugger, you! [/quote] No mate, I'm just here to torture you all with promises of cleaner playing if and only if you subscribe to my sick twisted devious torturous practice techniques. Sorry!!!!

damn I'm pants at typing fast - soz

Its will be tortuorous I'm afraid. I used to practice standing in a doorway with my left hand a cm away from the wall where the door would be if it closed. That way I couldnt keep opening my left hand all the time. Eventually you realise how much energy you are wasting by opening you hand except for the fretting finger. Then you realise how this is what has slowed you down all this time. Then you realise that what you need to do is relax you left hand completely Then you realise that this has all been caused by squeezing your left hand too tightly to fret a note. Task: With your index finger fret a note as normal. Then, play crotchets, and slowly relax you finger until the string buzzes, then apply more pressure as gradually as you can until it stops buzzing. Is this significantly less pressure than you normally use to fret a note? Repeat with each LH finger. How much energy have you been wasting? Now relax you LH over the strings like a mute. Place you hand such that you have the tip of you index finger in place to fret a note on the A string, you middle and ring will probably reach the E string. Apply pressure with the index fuinger until the note sounds. Experiment with all other fingers on all strings. You are trying to recondition yourself to use as littel motion and strength as possible with your LH, whilst muting all strings. Now promise me something, [b]every time[/b] you pick up your bass to play in the next year, start with this simple exercise. Really. Then go on to the staccato exercise I mentioned before. Your playing will be 100 times cleaner in 6 weeks.

Sorry to butt in. Just wanted to say what a great read this thread is. I am unreservedly cr@p at jazz and walking of any kind. Its never been my 'thing', and frankly I dont see me ever doing a jazz gig. BUT I am so aware that its a real weakness in my playing and one that I dont really know how to solve. Thanks for such a great set of simple instructions to get the basics of a walking line together. When I get a chance I'm going to really try and get this stuff internalised, if only to this degree, such that I could at leaast get away with it if I ever get a jazzier set of changes, or a song that would benfit from some simple walking. Thanks again for sharing.

Question: When you play a scale are your left hand fingers flapping about or do they all stay within a half cm (max) of the strings even when not being used? Cos if your LH technique is right your LH fingers stay very close to the strings all the time, which is a very natural step from the resting on all the strings. When you push a string down with your index finger your middle finger can reach and damp the string below (in pitch) along with the ring finger and your pinky can help dampen strings above (in pitch). In fact you can maintain LH dampening of all strings regardless of which finger is playing on which string. It is worth anchoring your thumb on the top of the pup and working exclusively on LH dampening playing major and minor scales, in thirds, in 6ths etc in one position up and down. It is a real finger stretcher!!! I am really starting to see this as the bit your are missing!!

[quote name='AM1' post='485812' date='May 12 2009, 12:19 PM']Playing octaves between A and G string - here's where my problem with floating thumb manifests because I would pluck the A string with my thumb resting on E but then move my whole hand so when I pluck the G string, my thumb would then rest on the D string. What I don't understand is if I would anchor my thumb on the pickup, how do I know which fingers to use then on alternate strings (one string apart and two strings apart) and [b]how to damp the string in between[/b]? I have started using my ring finger for damping on the right hand...but have no understanding of whether this is bad or good in the longer term because it's almost in compensation for not damping properly on the left hand. So to answer your question, I'm shifting my whole hand but not because there are notes in between, purely to try and achieve effective damping. But it's slowing speed down significantly.[/quote] Left hand damping as I have described it completely takes care of this. DO NOT underestimate the power of left hand damping!!!!

[quote name='alexclaber' post='485805' date='May 12 2009, 12:12 PM']My approach is a hybrid one - the thumb rests on the pickups, B, E, A or even D string depending on what the fingers are playing but it doesn't always shift, totally depends on the line being played. I also use my thumb and ring finger to pluck at times, so the only digit that's never used is the little finger. Eg. if playing octaves between A and G string I'd rest on the E. But if playing a line that starts on the A string and then travels up to the G I might shift from E to A as required. It's similar to left hand technique conceptually - do you keep your thumb in the same place and pivot the hand around it to reach a note, or do you shift the hand because the subsequent notes all require that shift? Alex[/quote] Mine is very similar (wrt to how I float) except I use three fingers for plucking RMI, in that direction rather than two, cos I find it increases my ascending speed, and my endurance. I use RI for octaves, and if there is a line with 2 16ths on the lower octave one 8th on the upper or vice versa (very disco) then I can use the M to provide one of the 16ths, making it easy to play such lines very fast. Its no good for I Feel Love though . Also sometimes do the thumb IM thing, or thumb IMR (but not Garrison technique). Trouble with 3 finger plucking is widely documented, and I would say it requires a significant investment in time to get the dexterity, but its been worth while for me. I am considering attempting to get the Garrison technique down. But I want to concentrate on reading for the forseeable so thats on hold!

[quote name='AM1' post='485730' date='May 12 2009, 10:51 AM']My problem is using that floating thumb technique for too long, which is actually quite effective at damping but it's slowing string crossing, isn't great for octaves and is hindering me from being able to switch seamlessly to normal thumb anchored on the pickup style. Really grateful for your advice.[/quote] Playing a faster piece you can get away with LH muting a lot of the noise (esp on Octaves for instance - the LH index finger mutes the string in between the two octaves naturally). Playing a fast run up the strings dont forget that you rh plucking fingers mute the string they land on after plucking too. So there is no need or time for floating. Playing slower and floating can keep up fine. And floating makes sense too as you stay in the optimum position that way. Plus the ringing is way more obvious and needs far greater control then. Its definitely a mix of all techniques as required for me. I have always prided myself on my very very clean fingerstyle (its not as fast as it used to be by a long margin, but thats cos I no longer have the time). I got there by completely analysing and deconstructing my right and left hand technique and concentrating on playing very slowly and completely staccato, working out what part of which hand was not muting when it could and modifying my technique to add that extra muting. I recommend you do the same. Stop worrying about speed for now. Play a major scale through all 4 strings slowly, completely staccato though, and figure out what rings. Now figure out what could mute it. What else could be muting? Incorporate it into _your_ technique. Chances are that by doing your own very in depth analysis you will find more opportunities for damping than a teacher will. Look at Gary Willis, totally unique technique because he worked it out for himself, anyone else play like that - not much - does it work? hell yes! Check out early Tribal Tech, he is blisteringly fast and clean as a whistle Since I've been playing a 5 I've had to start the long process of reworking my technique to cover that blasted ringing extra string!

Only ever seen the MM vid on VHS unfortunately. At work now - when I get a minute I'll dig it out if I can find it and give you the title. Sounds like a lot of your issues are to do with not using left and right hand together to damp strings. Do you play 4 or 5 (4 is waaaay easier to sort this out on IMO)? Left hand fingers should be gently curved and lying on the strings above (ie if you fret a note on the D string then your LH index finger can mute the G). Also I find that the tip of my LH index finger, even when fretting a note, can often just touch the string above and help damp it (so in the above scenario, my LH index finger frets a note on the D, damps the G, and helps damp the A). In the mean time my RH thumb is resting on the A to pluck the D, it is positioned such that the back of the thumb is resting agains the E (often firmly) - completely deadening that string too. Thus all strings are dampened. If you fret a note with your middle finger then your idenx can lie flat behind it dampening even more effectively. Take this to its logical extreme playing slow scales in one position across all strings using all your spare fingers as much as possible on both hands to dampen all the open strings as much as you can. Getting this all coordinated at speed takes A VERY LONG TIME The results are very clean though. Slapping cleanly relies on LH dampening even more!!!

Look, what you are talking about (strings ringing, slowness when switching strings) is normal. This is precisely where what I've been talking about (slow right down, concentrate on one tiny aspect and work super hard on that) is what you need to do. You dont need lessons, you dont need someone there to point out what is wrong. You need to be patient. You need to find the exact issue, using the technique I mentioned previously. You need to work slowly but with absolute precision and very gradually speed up. In this way you will find exercises that you target at exactly your weaknesses. You will build 'muscle memory' and familiarity with a way of doing these things that works for you and solves your problems. There is NO quick fix. No teacher will have a magic bullet or actually tell you anything else other than what I have said. They may have some stock exercises - thats all. Lastly remember that proper damping is always a function of both left and right hand technique. One without the other is never as good. DO NOT TRY AND RUSH THIS!!!!! Can you play the classic one finger per fret exercise at 120 bpm 16th notes cleanly. I bet you cant. I find it damned hard personally. Can you play 1 single note 16th notes cleanly at 120bpm? Can you alternate legato/staccato 16th notes at 120 bpm? How fast can you play 16th notes swung hard? 100bpm? 90bpm? Perfectly?? For a full minute? If you want to concentrate on technique, buy an exercise book to record your progress in and a metronome, and treat it like weight training. It will take you about 6 to 9 months in all likelihood, of careful managed exercise to get up to 140bpm swung staccato 16th notes for a full minute. Now try string skipping fifths, now octaves, now ascending scales in thirds, now scales on one string. Blah blah blah blah. You dont need a teacher to come up with exercises like this. They are obvious. You need to start slow. Record you progress in a book, get serious about commiting the time and effort. Dont do more than 15 minutes a day. Stop if you hands hurt or feel uncomfortable. Warning, the reason so few people get that fast and precise is because it is very hard work, takes a very long time and is incredibly tedious. The reason I mentioned Michael Manring's vid is he ignores music theory in his hand exercises and instead works all the permutations of one finger followed by another. Hence he can play anything in any position. If you arent getting anywhere in a year then you need some one on one guidance. Save £10 a week and you'll have enough for 10 lesson of an hour each with a top teacher. If that happens you didnt do it right...... Good Luck!

[quote name='Thunderthumbs' post='485205' date='May 11 2009, 05:23 PM']Like I said, I've a couple of Manring CDs myself, and to be honest I can handle so much of Victor's double thumbing until the notes get lost and then all you can hear is the clickety clack of strings against wood, then it sort of loses its point for me.[/quote] Yup that speed for speeds sake reminds me of Frank Gambale sweep picking extravaganza'a - 'kin rubbish w@nkery - STOP IT!!!

[quote name='AM1' post='484913' date='May 11 2009, 11:12 AM']Simon - hi If you don't ask, you don't get, so I thought it worthwhile to at least try! There's a guy that does free drum and bass lessons in West London, I've seen his adverts in the studio but I won't be back in that studio until later in the month. Maybe he's a serial killer though and the lessons are to lure his victims in! Anyway - yeah thanks for the really useful tips! The intention is definitely to join more bands in more styles once I can play those other styles more convincingly. I know exactly what you mean about funk, it's infiltrating into my fingers all the time, despite my best attempts to stop it! My fingers have got the funk! Anyway - a bit of diversity is definitely good to shake up the mix now and again. What you said about punk - there seems to be a really common misconception that punk is the easiest style to play - well it's as easy as you want to make it, there are some great punky bass players around that easily demolish that misconception. I personally prefer melodic punk basslines rather than typical 3 chord root note pick basslines but try playing flat out punk bass in that style for 4 hours! Not as easy as people think! I live in hope that there is someone who will give up some free time to help in my quest! Cheers AM[/quote] Hey AM, I hope you work something out! I've played enough noise to know punk can be very tricky - it was a very crude generalisation . My first band were very influenced by punk, Jon Zorn's Naked City, and all sorts of thrash stuff as well as funk and dissonant noise; but we had a flutist and two drummers so I don't think anyone knew what it was we played stylistically. It was very very fast and very complicated though so fast we never did a gig that lasted longer than 40 minutes! Just long enough to scare the punters away usually. You will get through this. If it works for you like it did for me, each style you get under you belt and each technique you nail will feel like another plateau, then you strive again for ages before getting up to the next plateau. It does take time. It is not always the case that more practice makes the time taken to reach the next level shorter. Often its practicing exactly the right thing in the right way for the right amount of time that gets the job done best. Working out what to practice, and how is very difficult to master. Break everything down. Easiest way to do this for pure technique and speed issues IMO, is to record yourself attempting to play whatever at a speed where you can do it perfectly. Now go to the point tempo-wise where its starting to go wrong and record yourself there. Listen and compare and take (mental) notes. Sometimes when playing you miss things you hear when just listening. Figure out exactly what the issue is. If its a string skip, a muted thump, your fingering getting out of shape. Now isolate that precise bit. Whatever it is, just slow down and only work on that part, very very slowly. Completely internalize that tiny part of the whole. This is tedious, but get really Zen-like in your approach. Over the course of half an hour by increments of just a couple of bpm, bring the speed up (you have a metronome dont you?). When you can get no faster go back down to the speed where you were originally going wrong and play the whole thing. Now speed up until you are fluffing another part (remember the recording again). Repeat until you are at Mach 10 and we all bow before AM1 the fastest most precise bassist on the site

[quote name='rslaing' post='485029' date='May 11 2009, 01:12 PM']Some real intonation problems there......................[/quote] You do know thats the parody dont you???? Just making sure!