51m0n

I 'kin [b]HATE[/b] tear down I've been in bands where I ran the PA and was bass bod. I'd end up tearing down with my girlfriend (nothing to do with the band other than wanting to get home) whilst every other b@5t@rd in the band got the beers in and had a chit chat with their mates. I was livid! Nowadays it should be better, but again the vox and keys typically have to get going the moment they come off stage, and we're left doing the hard work. Drives me right up the wall!!!

[quote name='Linus27' post='479897' date='May 5 2009, 01:49 PM']My current rig with one cab only puts out about 180 watts. With two cabs I get 300 watts. My band has a very loud argentinian latin loving drummer, a percussionist and two guitarists and 3 vocals. At the rehearsal rooms, the 300 watt combos (which must be pushing out 180) have struggled. I also want to go down to one cab (thus the question about a single 2 x 10 or possible 4 x 10) and a larger head, something thats going to push out about 300 watts at 8 ohms and 500 at 4 ohms. 300 should easily be enough but I also have the scope to expand if I ever need to.[/quote] LH500 over a berg ae410 will win that battle....

[quote name='Linus27' post='479890' date='May 5 2009, 01:43 PM']OK, I'll try my best. It was running through the Markbass 4 x 10.... ....I don't think there is really anything wrong with the Markbass Little Mark head, its just a case off only finding one setting I was happy with tonally and any other setting really did not suit me. It may have even been the Markbass cab letting it down. I had high hopes for that also as it only weighs 25kg where the Ashdown weighs 36kg.[/quote] Seems like you gave it a decent work out then! I think you are probably bang on about the cab though, the MB 4x10 doesn't shy away from the mid range at all, and a lot of people dont like its sound as a result. I dont think it accentuates them particularly, I do think most cab manufacturers tend to try and engineer in a little dip in response in the mids to clean thing up a bit, or the crossoveer does it. I think the MB cabs definitely colour the sound, whereas with a more neutral cab I prefer the output. Hence me going for Berg (once I heard it it totally convinced me). To be fair the VLE did exactly what it says on the tin though, And it does it in a slightly different way from a more conventional treble IMO, but if you dont like that kind of sound it will never ever be for you. Its good for dub, blues, old school rock and roll or any time when you cant get to the tweeter attenuator. VPF upto 9' O'clock is IMO like dialing in the head to where a lot of amps consider themselves flat - any more than this and you have lost so much mid info that you wont be heard anyway IME. I would say that the EQ is definitely as powerful as any non-sweepable out there, although I think the choice of 40Hz for the low shelving is nuts, 80Hz would be more appropriate for most situations, and again I personally think this is a bit of a reflection on the cabs... If Ashdown floats your boat then congrats for finding the sound that does it for you! Would have been interested to hear what you thought of the LMII into the Ashdown 4x10 though....

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='479840' date='May 5 2009, 12:57 PM']I have a theory about this - the absolutely ideal personal "sound check" is to play one note. If it sounds good then shut the **** up!! If you need to do more then keep it to the absolute minimum. [b]Showing off your licks while setting up should be a sackable offence[/b] !![/quote] I helped run a big funk band in college. 18 or 19 piece. After one rehearsal that rule was laid down in stone. Next week we fired one person on the spot for the first transgression (the rule had been reiterated). Never got another unnecessary peep out of anyone for the following 4 months till we folded the band up. Good rule to work with. And to lay down at any audition.

[quote name='Linus27' post='479215' date='May 4 2009, 06:45 PM']HAHA rumbled :) It was more a case of sticking with what I know best. After trying in Andertons The Markbass Little Mark II, Warwick Profet, Ashdown ABM and Ashdown MAG back to back, I found the MAG (which I already own) sounded great and suited my tone but the ABM range was just so much more tonally and much more adjustable. So it is the perfect upgrade from the MAG. [b]The Markbass just sounded horrible and very limiting tonally[/b]. The Warwick actually sounded pretty good but worse than my MAG. I think the Ashdown tone just really suits me. I am very fussy and struggle to get a nice tone out of the Stingray and so far the Ashdown tone has been the best. Saying that, I borrowed an Ashdown Little Giant and despite sounding very good, did not sound better than my MAG. It had less scope tonally. So, yes I could try the Hartke but I thought it would be better to try some of the others out first rather than waste Paul's time. If the Ashdown ABM sounded no better or worse than my MAG then I would be trying the Hartke for sure. As it sounded better, then like I say, just sticking with what I know.[/quote] Errr how on earth did you manage to conclude that an LM II is tonally limiting???? Really I cannot imagine how you came to that conclusion. I expect the filters werent off, but maybe the amp was bust. Honestly, I've never heard a better amp for my needs so to hear someone dismiss it like that is pretty weird to me, the eq section is super powerful, and the filters are a great solution to 90% of player's needs. I'm certainly not trying to suggest you should all be using MB gear but I am interested to find out why you thought it was so poor, in what way was it tonally limited? My son gigs with a Berg HT210 vertically, with an LH500 on top, works a treat.....

Really important you get the most basic bits down first. Strap length, left hand (not squeezing to hard) right hand not plucking to hard, no hard break angles on wrists. Check their bass over - high action is a bad thing for a 14 yr old beginner, sort it out if necessary (and you can). Great starting riff is Hey Joe - first the roots then the little walking lick. Its trivially easy and will in 10 mins make them feel like they can play a classic song.

Couple of hours tops. Working out where everything goes is the biggest issue. Lots of monitors, reasonable PA (we can go really big but dont have to normally). Then there the drummer - whose PA it is, because him and I do the majority of the PA he is then left with his kit to set up afterwards/during the end of the PA set up. Which means this all takes longer. We dont rush mind, but we dont stop either. Otherwise we're knackered in time for the show, which is not good! Soundcheck is a luxury we never seem to get to, which annoys me, since usually we dont get a soundcheck as we end up waiting for someone to turn up who wasnt involved with the heavy gear. If we do a soundcheck it takes about 15 mins. If the venue had its own (decent) PA we would be set up in about 20 minutes I reckon, ready for a 15 minute soundcheck On the other hand if I'm depping I can be there from car to stage and ready to go in 10 to 15 minutes tops...

Relax - Frankie Goes To Hollywood One note.....

[quote name='alexclaber' post='477103' date='May 1 2009, 03:27 PM']a lot of airflow must shift from[b] laminar to turbulent [/b]at that speed hence the big leap in fuel consumption.[/quote] You're such a nerd Alex

[quote name='bumfrog' post='477057' date='May 1 2009, 02:33 PM'] think you've described half the bands / venues I've been in with that list [/quote] Oh don't worry I've played in them too! IMO the more you can do to control your part of the operation and the more parts of the operation you have some control over (obviously the acoustics are only improvable often by bringing a big crowd!) the better yo can make things. If you have a great sound guy and PA, if you keep you kit in great working order, if you know your parts, if you use sensible tones/fx live to get the best of any venue, if you control your volume, if you perform with gusto and aplomb then 9/10 you'll sound great. And I hate hour long soundchecks too, 15 to 20 minutes is more than enough for anyone in a smaller venue. I'm aiming these comments at the people who play in little venues (ie most of us) as we dont have the luxury of a bunch of blokes to soundcheck everything for us. So its even more important to get control over this stuff yourselves such that when you get to play you have the best chance of sounding really good to the punters in the shortest possible time frame.

[quote name='bumfrog' post='476971' date='May 1 2009, 01:11 PM']Please don't take this the wrong way, it's not having a go. But you do sound like an IT guy As in you know exactly what to do and what needs doing, but then you sound (apologies if i'm wrong on this bit) like you are getting frustrated/annoyed with those people who don't have the same knowledge as you. I understand that when you reach a certain level of knowledge as it were that people then tend to start getting anal about stuff, but what tends to happen when people get to that stage is they tend to forget that actually there's quite a lot of people out there who play just for the fun of it, and really aren't that bothered about having the best sound they can as it really doesn't make any difference to them. Yes, I do agree with the sentiments of this thread about how things sound a lot better if people know about eq'ing, using fx properly etc, but to a certain degree, I find that once you start getting obsessed with those things they can get in the way of actually enjoying the playing, if you get my drift. Also purely from a spectators point of view, one can start to let things like that get in the way of actually enjoying the music and performance. Yes, I would love that every gig that I go to have well balanced sound, nicely seperated instruments etc, but that (in my experience) is the exception rather than the rule - as a few people have pointed out, the drummer, I feel, is the benchmark for this. Most gigs I go to, the drummer is too loud, so the sound people can't get the vocals up high enough to be heard over everybody competing with the drummer without it feeding back. I guess all I'm trying to say is to those that get annoyed by these things, watch your heart rate dudes, it's not worth busting a gut over EDIT:- Just out of interest, if anybody has any guides or advice about all of this stuff for live playing, I'd be most appreciative of some guidance [/quote] Yup, I'm in IT. Yup I think I know my stuff in Sound Engineering too. Thanks for noticing. I like to talk to people before they come to a studio and give them enough knowledge to make their time there as productive as possible so that they, and I get the best result. It certainly reflects on me as much as them if the result isn't as good as it could be. If they then don't take on board the advice given then that is [b]definitely[/b] frustrating - think about this, if they play that result to someone who thinks the sound is rubbish and then tell that person where it was recorded, its a very bad advert. Now I don't think anyone I've ever recorded has actually sounded rubbish myself. But it may not be exactly what they wanted and so they may think it could be better. So they will then go through the whole 'Well we wanted it to sound a bit more blah blah blah' to whoever is listening, and that too reflects badly on me and the studio. So actually it does really matter that they take this stuff on board completely because not only will they not get what they want, but I will get a negative response to my work because of it. And that in essence is incredibly frustrating, especially if they didn't do some simple things as requested to help me give them a great result in time and in budget. And all of this can equally be applied to a gig. And no no gig [u]has[/u] to sound rubbish with a bad mix. Not ever. It is a result of:- * poor musicianship * bad decisions regarding tone/fx * poor/broken gear * poor sound engineering * poor preparation * lack of knowledge * more often than not too much volume * poor acoustics (which could in almost all situations be improved, usually quite cheaply) Or a combination of all of the above. You go ahead and carry on getting by and not obsessing for as long as you like, I really don't mind, its entirely your choice. I'll go on my merry way making people I work with sound as good as they possibly can whenever I can, because I love to. The OP was after some tips though. Just the other day a friend of mine came over, and I played him a demo of a track I'd just done with my Squire VMJ fretless. I didn't tell him that track was my band, and he promptly wandered off to make a coffee. When he came back I asked him to listen again and he was sure it was a commercial release not a demo at all. In fact that was why he gone and made coffee in the first place, cos he didn't think what I had played could have been the demo I'd mentioned a few days before. He was staggered at the quality. Thats a tick in the win column in my book...

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='468065' date='Apr 21 2009, 08:03 AM']I don't know if the palatino is any good for arco - might be worth a look. [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_eub_500_sb_electric_upright.htm"]Thomann sell a rebadged version[/url] for around £320.[/quote] Crikey if that works for arco that might be the answer... Of course all you bods in the now are going to tell me I'm off my loaf at this point aren't you

[quote name='Lifer' post='476907' date='May 1 2009, 12:19 PM']If you're on a public road then you can't be sure there's no-one around. You could be the drifting champion of the world but if someone less 'skilled' than you pulls out (maybe because they can't judge speed) in front while you're 'learning your limits' you're gonna be in trouble. Similarly you could meet someone learning their limits coming the other way[/quote] To be fair you dont have to be drifting or exceeding the speed limit for that to be an issue any time you get in your car and frankly the drifting champion of the world would be safer in that situation (ie drifting his arse off when something unexpected happens on a public road) than you would be if you were driving within the speed limits.... Thats Nobuteru Taniguchi, drives now in Super Taikyu and is one of the best drifters in the world. He's driving an A86 Trueno (very average road car) and clearly has some of the best car control you'll see anywhere. I'd rather it was him coming toward me hanging the back out a bit than almost anyone else in the world, cos he'd sort it out in no time!

[quote name='OldGit' post='476934' date='May 1 2009, 12:37 PM']I am sure you know this but it's because recording is a totally different game to playing live. So different that it shoud be considered a whole different skill. Most people have never had to think about any of the things you are talking about . I've done sessions where none of this was considered or mentioned - well not to me anyway. How about giving bands some guidance when they book - back to the leaflet idea again, or a web page - say a list of "things you can do to mak ethe session go better, to end up with a better end result and to save time and money" That shoudl encourage them to read it Sad an FAQ with "What can I do to help the producer" as one of the questions .. Then they can think about bvs, effect chains, arrangements, etc before they turn up and at least you could say "did you RTFL?" (read the f'n leaflet)[/quote] Yeah been there done that. ALways still do with a new buch in the studio. Try and tell them they would be best off going into the reheasal studio 4 times over the nexrt week to work it all out and tighten it up before recording, sort out tones, examples, mixes they like etc etc, bvs, overdubs, and lastly do you use a click? Usuually they get to the studio and still arent sure. So they slow the process down. Its fine if they have the budget, hopeless if they dont

[quote name='maxrossell' post='476899' date='May 1 2009, 12:15 PM']Heh - I just got an email from their keyboard player, who says that she can't really think of anything that she would like to sound like, but she wants her parts to sound full, crisp and clear. I'm kind of wondering what the alternative would be?[/quote] I rest me case. Bloody stupid response. Course she does, even if she only says 'I've got my timbres sorted, but I want the pads to sit in the mix like they do in this track' would be better. Musicians are the bane of engineers lives

[quote name='maxrossell' post='476766' date='May 1 2009, 10:19 AM']Really? That's [i]insane.[/i] I would have thought it would be common sense. Like I'm doing four tracks in a day today (hardly a rare occurrence for any studio bod) and accordingly I don't want to spend hours and hours beard-stroking over the sound of a kick or a snare or what have you. Just tell me you wanna sound like Dave Grohl or Buddy Rich and let's get on with it.[/quote] No really, I've had spotty guitarists saying 'But I'm an individual - I dont sound like anyone' then obviously try and be Kirk Cobain. Its so tedious, Wastes all their time, and you end up compromising whilst tracking cos they cant explain what they want, then having to try and make up for that at mixdown - we all know that that way madness lies, especially on a budget! In my very personal opinion the only changes to tracking that you should consider by the time you get to mix down is bvs and thats only cos so few bands give them a second thought! They tend to spend hours contemplating their navel about which distortion pedal should go where in their fx chain but never give aq moments consideration to bvs. I recently had a chance to do a spot of drum programming for a remix of a Chaka Kahn/Mary J Blige track (no really!). We got the vocal as a stereo pair (not too helpful) but it was mind boggling how much effort had gone it to it. Yet conversely the structure was a mess (some peculiar bars of 9/8 and 7/8 IIRC), and it lacked a good hook, but the detail and attention on the vocal interaction and layers of harmony was just incredible! Sadly what we put forward never got considered for release as the guy didnt like the direction we were going (very classic Motown backing band thing - he couldnt see where it was going to end up or ran out of cash for the project, either way he shelved it), but it was all a bit last minute anyway. Still worth some involvement just to hear the vocal raw. I wish vocalists and bands would consider bvs as important as lead - they really are....

Get everyone in the band to play as quietly as they can. Not turning down - just playing really soft for all the verses in each song. Have a competition to see who can play the verse the most inaudibly. I've managed to get a band that was rocking out way over shouting levels down to under a normal conversation level - yes the drummer is the key! Then let everyone play the verses a little louder so they dont feel so constricted - the groove will flood back - but not louder than loud conversation ie you can still talk to each other. Then go as loud as possible in the chorus, or better yet drop some full volume stabs into the verse. You play like that live and the audience will jump a mile on each chorus'set of stabs. Works every time and you get a reputation as being brilliant. If you exaggerate this stuff when rehearsing it becomes easy quickly and you can do what you like in a live situation....

[quote name='maxrossell' post='476556' date='Apr 30 2009, 11:55 PM']Ah, man, I have no idea how helpful that would be. Everyone has different gear, everyone wants a different sound. I'm mixing this record tomorrow and the assignment I've given the band is to bring in records that give examples of how they'd like their instruments to sound, just so I have some idea of what they're aiming for. I reckon it would take far better men than me a very very long time to put together a comprehensive guide.[/quote] +1 Getting a band to bring in stuff they want to sound 'like' as a starting point is so useful, yet you're the only person other than Bob Birthright who I've ever heard suggest or do this. It save hours of arguments I find. Top tip for all of you lot next time you are going to track or mix a demo.....

[quote name='RhysP' post='476171' date='Apr 30 2009, 04:45 PM']Jeff Berlin takes a lot of crap for the things he says in print but I think Jackson is far worse.[/quote] Too true.

[quote name='liamcapleton' post='476058' date='Apr 30 2009, 02:49 PM'][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAiRfPNQdJY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAiRfPNQdJY[/url][/quote] Yeah thats the fella.....

A band needs:- Players who are proficient enough to pull off what they are attempting with ease (aplomb even) Players committed enough to put in the work to get up to scratch with the material Players with a good idea of interaction with an audience Players who understand how to make the band as a whole unit sound good in a live situation Players with enough sense of the team to let their sound be a part of the inevitable whole. If you are missing any of those then you will be less good than you could be. The punters may not be able to identify why you arent as good as the band with all the above, but they will know which band is better.

[quote name='chris_b' post='475802' date='Apr 30 2009, 10:54 AM']The guy's expressing a personal view and you lot just heap insults!![/quote] His personal views are unfounded, sensationalist and clearly an attempt to garner attention, and further more he isn't offering any positive response, he is just happy to spout that the end is nigh, and sit down and wait for it. That stinks of attention grabbing soundbite crud. I have absolutely no respect for that attitude. He therefore deserves insults in abundance IMHO. Shame, I really do wish he would shut up and play. He's not at all bad at that.....

I prefer to levitate....