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[quote name='dave_bass5' post='468787' date='Apr 21 2009, 05:04 PM']Ah but thats the key phrase, a really good bass doesn't have to be a really expensive one IME. I do get what your saying though but i also think people pay a lot more for different wood and a better looking finish, things that don't really make a big difference your playing and hardly any to your live sound (as in mixed in with the rest of the band) Im not talking £200 basses of course, i think a decent one around £1000 should be good enough for anyone to play. Even with the cost of a decent set up its still less than a £2000 but can still make the same noises (more or less).[/quote] Well I think £1000 is expensive. It may well be worth every penny, but it isnt cheap. I think £200 is cheap. I think over £1500 and you are getting seriously exotic and in all likelihood are paying for some special woods, or customisation, or handmade. Around £1000 will get you a great bass, almost always. It may not be "the one" for you (equally with more expensive) but it will be for someone , and it really ought to have a decent set up, perfectly good electronics and good enough hardware to stay in tune and do the job to a pretty pro level. Up in the £1500 to £2000 area you should expect something more than doing the job even to a pretty pro level. It must have mojo, and function perfectly IMO, or its not good value. That mojo is part of what makes it make you play better than the £1000 instrument... Over £2000 and you probably won the lottery..... IMO....

[quote name='JohnSlade07' post='468735' date='Apr 21 2009, 04:32 PM']Ultimately a more expensive bass is very unlikely to make me a better player and a boutique bass is no subsitute for a great gig crowd wise.[/quote] Well I don't necessarily agree with that. A really good bass really well setup will help you play things you never dreamed you could - the key is largely in the setup. I've been setting up my basses for nigh on 20 years, and really thought I had it down. Every bass player who tried my 4 string thought the setup up was excellent, very fast and super easy to play without excessive string rattle. I thought I new my stuff! Then I got my Roscoe, and the action is totally ridiculous, its unbelievably low, and yet there is virtually no rattle anywhere on the neck unless I play with the grip of an enraged baboon. Honestly, set up like this has to be a lot to do with the fact its a unique hand made instrument, finished by an expert craftsman, and setup up by one too, cos I've never seen anything close! I don't think you can match it with a wood construction instrument using machines except for final assembly, wood is to variable a material to get accurate enough. Plus the wood stock used in cheap instruments is rarely dried properly first and so is almost guaranteed to flex and expand ruining any set up done in the factory. Then there is the electronics. As an example the Ibanez SR300 is my personal recommended cheap starter bass, its a super instrumetn for the price, with Ibanez electronics it sounds perfectly good, but when you compare it to the next couple of grades up Inbanez SR with the Bart pups and pre the difference is easily discernible. For me quality tone off the instrument makes me want to play more often, I enjoy the experience more, a tone that is more harmonically rich, and with greater frequency range tends to make me want to bother to plug in the headphone amp and practice. So it helps me make myself a better player... Question, when was the last time you picked up a > £1500 value bass that really worked for you and played it for a couple of hours to get into it, then compare it to, say, an average £200 bass?? Taking the cash required to buy them out of the equation, which one did you get the most out of???

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='468704' date='Apr 21 2009, 04:18 PM']Yeah, and as the cab is at the end of the chain it makes sense to try and make sure the £1000's you have spent on the rest on the chain actually gets through without sounding like its one of those learner kits from Argos.[/quote] Where it can perfectly reproduce the sound of you rubbish fx pedals, crud interconnects, dodgy leads, rubbish amp, and badly shielded POS bass, with an unplayable action and a filthy pots???

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='468650' date='Apr 21 2009, 03:33 PM']The only thing ive found that i had to spend good money on was cabs. I needed something small but powerful and the Schroeders were the only things i could get hold of. Other than that i think i would be happy with anything as long as it fits the bill.[/quote] Makes total sense, distortion from an amp working within its spec is orders of magnitude less than distortion from a cab, so you can get away with worse quality.

Well I can get a useable sound out of nearly anything at a given volume, within the range of the device in question. The issue I have with cheap gear is that it tends to fail more often (cheaper components), it doesnt go as loud without distorting/misbehaving/sounding less good, it is heavy, it wont take as much abuse, it wont last as long. Oh and in fact it almost always doesn't sound quite as good. Its taken me years to be able to get the gear I have and I love it, it sounds phenomenal, way better than cheap kit at the same volume. And it will last and last (if it doesnt you'll hear about it!) Having said all that my last purchase was a second hand Squire fretless VMJ, and it sings; just recorded with it this weekend, and its totally brilliant, love it to bits, sounds really woody, mwaahs on the top two strings really easily, but the setup makes the E and A sound a little less obviously fretless until you dig in or slide - perfect! £150 Bargain! EQ is overrated for getting a bass sound IMO. There I've said it, now everyone will flame me. I don't care. IME the true timbre of the sound is more defined by pickup blend than anything else. Yes you can add bass to a bridge pickup tone, and it will be as bassy as a neck pickup tone, but they still sound different, and vice versa. Couple this with where you choose to pluck the strings (just taking into account pickups as possible places) and you have four very distinct tones, now add how stiff the fingertip is as you pluck (just consider stiff as vs not at all stiff) and you have 8, then we have how hard you actually pluck (imagine there is either soft or hard) thats 16, but of course there are an infinite variety of graduations between each of these variables. Now thats just fingerstyle! I can EQ til I'm blue in the face and I wont change any of those sounds to one of the others, I just change the frequency plot to get closer - there is a huge amount more to timbre than that frequency plot! Envelope, odd versus even harmonics, balance of fundamental to harmonics, amount of string and fret noise etc etc You cannot eq these things in really. I know Alex will understand where I'm coming from! You don't have to spend what I have to get a very very nice rig (my son has a brilliant rig which cost sell under half as much), but quality is quality, it does sound better, it usually functions better too.

They arent going to either. This bloke is not prepared to compromise or learn anything new or different, he isnt ready in himself to gig, he just likes his social hour each week. Get another band. Now..... Let the band know exactly why you are looking for another band as well.

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='467606' date='Apr 20 2009, 04:31 PM']In that case... Focusrite Compounder!![/quote] +1 Check my sig

[quote name='largo' post='467505' date='Apr 20 2009, 02:59 PM']Thanks for all the advice guys. Quick question, if I set my gain low then won't the sound guy just increase his line level to below clipping at the desk anyway. So no difference? I can slap fairly quiet, but popping ain't so easy. Maybe I should be more aggresive with my fingerstyle !!!![/quote] Well that is the problem - he doesnt know how to set gain. Sound engineering 101: gain stages. Gain MUST be set such that your loudest sound doesn't clip. If your level is then too low the rest of the time then you guys need a compressor somewhere. But if you're peaking that hard it may be a limiter that you really need, to catch the absolute leading edge of the transient.

[quote name='ezbass' post='467486' date='Apr 20 2009, 02:33 PM']By coincidence I played the actual bass this was originally recorded with today. It's a P bass with a J p/up so close to the bridge it's almost touching! Guess what I played?[/quote] Kazoo??? Banjo?? Sax??? Sorry you're going to have to give me a clue here......

Thats cracking stuff there sir! Right up my street. Shame you're in Edinburgh, I'd come and see that live in a heartbeat! If I had to by a critical git I'd say your singer could do with giving it a bit more welly a la Baby Charles' Dione Charles, although not too much, and you could go for a bigger sounding vocal again for a chorus hook (quad tracking and panning would do it, with some harmonies too). Oh, and sweet keys!

Your sound engineer doesnt know his stuff. He should have a compressor inline on your channel He should set your gain according to the loudest transient peak (in this case you slapping and popping) He should compress your signal (v. fast attack though to catch the transient) to bring up the non-slapping stuff, and to control that huge transient peak so that he can:- Bring up your level without it ever peaking or endangering his rig. If he isnt doing this get a better sound engineer, or be too quiet,. Last option, learn to slap quieter.....

In reality I think most producers don't know what sounds like what. They just know a P bass does that kind of music (if they are very well versed), they have no idea what else can do the same thing in a mix - why would they? When they say P, any decent neck pickup (OK best if its either a P or soapbar rather than a jazz pup IME) on a decent bass will cut it, roll off the treble to taste. Then its a question of picking the spot to pluck, for a truer P sound then over that neck pup, but I often find you get a tone that sits in the mix better if you have a bridge pup to pluck over, even when using the neck pup, its that bit tauter and punchier. Of course getting a producer/engineer to let you go through that couple of combinations rather than just taking a beaten up old P out of a bag is probably the diff between getting called again and not....

Cheers chaps, thought that some of you guys might like this, my "worm is turning", track Well I think the guitarist will feel this is like passing a gallstone. Similar to how I've felt with the last couple of tracks they came up with! He's well up for the challenge though, keeps asking me what he should play, so far I've said what he does to me - listen to such and such, let that inspire you. I pointed him to the Craig Charles funk show, told him to a listen to a couple of shows from start to finish, he'll be able to pick out something he likes and do his take on it. I know he can play funky when he's in the mood - he just doesn't unless we're jamming. Yes I do reckon theres room for him, I intended the overdubs in the chorus to be replaced, just leaving the deep bass, for instance, they are supposed to suggest ideas of where I'd like the guitar and keys to go. Trouble is I cant help but really like what they sound like I'm not averse to dropping out some of the fills too if he comes up with something tasty to put in there. This is very much the starter for ten, as such there is way too much bass on there, but until we run it through live its going to be tricky working out how much of it I wont be playing. I'm not changing that middle 8 though, it sounds pretty easy, but its pretty tricky to nail (took an evening to write it and then get that take!) and I really enjoy playing it (plus I love trying to do melodic slap stuff because its pretty unusual, my all time favourite slap line is probably Forget-me-knots). My drummer is going through a huge Steve Gadd phase at the moment, although not in the songs they've been writing, so this will definitely give him a chance to give it some, again he really cant wait! The different tones are all achieved with the onboard preamp. Absolutely no eq anywhere in post tracking mixing, no compression or other fx whilst tracking, as raw as I can get it. So we have:- 1) Verse: 100% neck pup, all eq flat, plenty of compression after the fact on mixdown though! 2) Chorus deep fingerstyle: 100% neck, eq flat, plucking over bridge pup (dont get carried away or you lose some bottom end and smoothness) 3) Chorus slapping (fakeclav): 100% bridge pup, -100% bottom on eq (rolled off so as not to crowd the deep bass) 4) Chorus env filter: 100% bridge pup (I think), bass rolled off about 50%, env filter is a classic env filter vst (which is free) 5) Stabs, various overdubs at different pitches, some bridge pup, some neck pup, some fingerstyle some slapped - I got well into it - sorry! 6) Middle 8: Slapped, 5% favouring the bridge pup, just enough to bet that slight nasal quality, eq flat. All the bass tracks are grouped and going through a fairly mildly set broadcast compressor to help squish them into one nice overall sound. Mainly though its the sound of a Roscoe Century 5 with stock d'Addarrio strings (pretty much killed them in the time it took to get this down unfortunately). Its a sweet sounding bass though, which is why I ended up put so much of it down, really enjoyed finding all the tonal variations on this! Thanks for commenting chaps!

Wow - not a lot then!

I cant even talk and play.... And no I dont look at the fretboard (well maybe more with the 5 at the mo, and the fretless is lined so I find myslf cheating on that too - shhhh!)

[quote name='escholl' post='465367' date='Apr 17 2009, 06:48 PM']i just want to add to this that output xformers distort signals in the time domain as well as the frequency domain (it's inevitable) -- so reading on the site where it says "[using transformers in the output section] is done to achieve the warmth and presence of a tube amp while maintaining the clarity and fast attack of a solid state design" it was a case of palm-->face for me. other than that though, everything he says about the amp design is spot on.[/quote] Hey I never said I agreed with him - personally I think the idea sounds like rot, and another thing to go wrong, and extra weight to carry; but if you dig it, can afford it and lift it, and it sounds like your dream rig, then good luck to you, and I'm really pleased for the OP that he got his dream rig, I know what that feels like!

You mean you cant transpose on the fly.......... Tough break there, good luck!

[quote name='mike257' post='464879' date='Apr 17 2009, 12:11 PM']The comparison between Oasis and Extreme is a perfect case in point. I'm not a massive fan of either band, but I can respect both of them. Certainly nobody in Oasis is half as capable on their instrument as Nuno and co, but you won't see 60,000 people in a field singing their hearts out because they feel so uplifted by 'Get The Funk Out'.[/quote] Actually in Japan you would....... They were huge there!

[quote name='Linus27' post='460940' date='Apr 13 2009, 01:19 AM']I can't turn the amp up. This is at home and so this is playing softly for me. If anything, I need to turn it down :)[/quote] You are missing the point!!!! Turn the amp up twice as loud, now play 1/4 as hard: result, half the volume and almost zero effort.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='465152' date='Apr 17 2009, 03:43 PM']It's certainly a very appealing preamp! Unfortunately adding all that EQ whilst maintaining signal integrity is very expensive, hence the vast price difference between it and the U5 (and similarly between the U5 and Avalon's other preamps). I'm unfamiliar with the effects of output transformers on tone - I'm just aware that if they're not large enough they can form a bottleneck due to the magnetic fields from the two coils failing to couple fully at high power - and that with the high output impedance of a valve amp you have to have an output transformer to shift over to the low voltage high current drive that a speaker needs. But when you have a solidstate power stage you already have the right output impedance so Jonas must prefer what an output transformer does to the tone. I notice the amps are relatively low power (compared to other standalone power amps, they're not much different to typical bass heads) and thus wonder if he likes the sound of a transformer coupled solidstate power amp running beyond its linear zone? Alex[/quote] What I heard was that he believes that the output transformer does more to get 'that' tube sound than the tubes themselves in a power stage. Lots of arguments follow as to the validity of this idea, and being something of a tubeophobe its not a quest I've ever really been on.... Having said that I certainly wouldn't turn my nose up at a rig like that! Its really beautiful, who put that grinning buffoon in the picture though?

Blimey, I am really NOT a Smiths person, but thats the best thing I've heard by them, and I really like the b-line too (I can live with out the oh so tremelo guitar nonsense mind! )

So me and me band have been having a bit of a difference of opinion musically. Mainly the drummer and guitarist start all the songs off, drummer comes up with lyrics often and then they come up with most of the rest between them, I get called in to create a b-line after the fact. Trouble is they are 50 odd miles away from me location-wise and have a tendency to always rock out, bless em. Much talk is made of a desire to get more groovey, even funky, and yet left to their own devices it always ends up being a rockfest. Nothing desperately wrong with that, but thats not really where my strengths lie (cos I get a bit bored, and tend to think more syncopated as a rule). Anyway the last couple of songs they rejected my proposed b-lines repeatedly until I went a bit mental. You know the sort of thing, 'This isnt my bag, and I'm fed up with not playing anything I like :('. Seems I threw a bit of a gauntlet down, since the reply was, here's some lyrics, lets see what you can come up with....... So I locked myself away with my Roscoe 5 (first real chance to record something I want with it) and came up with something. The nice thing is that the bass sounds pretty lush to me, and thats with very little post processing, just some tasty compression (other than that accident with the envelope filter in the chorus). The scary bit is this is 11 tracks of bass, but thats cos I want to be a horn section too Drums are MyDrumKit vsti, f you're interested. So here it is, what do you lot think???

Well I just got a 2nd hand fretless VMJ from Uzzell and its the nicest Fender/Squier I've ever had the pleasure to play. I'm no Fender fanboy or expert, but I am staggered at the quality and feel of this instrument for the price. They are VERY low output though (even for a passive bass I think)

[quote name='Rich' post='463901' date='Apr 16 2009, 01:23 PM']that TLA 5051... *drool*[/quote] They're pretty fine arent they, get to play with the TLA stereo tube comp a lot in my drummers studio, do like them!