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[quote name='TimR' post='457955' date='Apr 8 2009, 11:29 PM']What amp do you have. Set all your controls to a neutral position (usually 12 o'clock for the tone controls) then adjust each one to see how the sound is affected in that particular room. Return each one to the neutral before moving to the next one. Then go back and build from scratch. Don't start with everything set as they where when you where at home. Start afresh.[/quote] +1 Set your amp gain and volume up to keep up with the drummer with everything eq wise flat and compression and effects off. Now start to tweak, cut whenever possible rather than boost (really - it does make a diff) Here's the tricky bit, do the same with the guitars (yup flat, and low distortion, cleaner the better, add as little gain as you can get away with and allow the guitarist to play - he'll hate it but the band will actually sound better for it) then its again a case of some judicious cutting (not always easy on guitar amps, sometimes you have so little frequency control that boosting is the only option) - try your best not to boost the bass if you can. I've done this on occasion with the last three bands I've had anything to do with. Invariably the guitarists hate it. However the thing to do is to record the band how they like it, then how you like it, leave it a week and play them the two versions, as double blind as possible, hopefully with non band members listening too. Almost invariably the version you set up will sound clearer, especially if you can carve a little frequency out of the bass and guitars for vox. It doesnt last long, but it can help for a while....

[quote name='bassace' post='457795' date='Apr 8 2009, 08:37 PM']Thanks, OG. Something Clarkson would do, in other words.[/quote] No, he uses a paragraph cos he's a t0553r

[quote name='alexclaber' post='457562' date='Apr 8 2009, 04:26 PM']I recently discovered that this site from my uni band was still up: [url="http://www.spiderplant.net/agentorange/html/recordings/recordings.html"]http://www.spiderplant.net/agentorange/htm...recordings.html[/url] The recordings from Nov '99 were done with two PZMs on the kit (one on the ceiling, one in front of the kick drum), SM58 on guitar amp and SWR GP DI'd for bass, all into a Tascam 424 MkII (double speed cassette 4-track), vocals then overdubbed on Cubase. Not a bad sound at all for low tech/cost! Alex[/quote] Exactamundo!

I cannot believe that no one has mentioned our very own poptart's bassdirect..... Wicked place, great range of kit, just be prepared to leave with uncontrollable GAS or a lighter wallet!

Really just get a Zoom H2 or H4 and figure out where in the room to put it to get the right balance. It will be the quickest solution. Second to that pick up a second hand minidisc recorder and a couple of half decent PZM mics PZMs are tragically underrated for this sort of thing. Properly placed (flat on a wall or ceiling) they will completely outperform something like that found in an H2 or H4 since the surface they are attached to becomes part of the microphone. Also they are suppoesed to be always phase aligned as a result of their design.

Well you appear to carry twice as many amps as me Still go for a rack tuner every time, and like you I tune at the beginning of each set (unless drunken muppet stumbles into bass - singers are like that you know!) I'll settle for a rack tuner personally still.

Nope, family life and a good day job....

For what purpose are you making these recordings? Is it a sketch pad, or are you looking to take some of those sketches into the realm of real multitracking - cos the later isnt cheap if you want really good results IME.

If I get a chance I'll pop in to GAK tomorrow - but they didnt have them about a week ago....

[quote name='PURPOLARIS' post='456875' date='Apr 7 2009, 10:05 PM']I use a Tascam US1641, it has 16 channels and takes up 1U rack space. (see photo) It connects to the pc or laptop via USB 2.0 and records multitrack. It's a great piece of equipment for the money. [attachment=23451:07042009360.jpg][/quote] Thats an excellent looking solution! Nice one, might have to mention that for the gig recording solution. What's the capacity?? Doh its just an interface - sorry (twonk!)

[quote name='The Funk' post='456826' date='Apr 7 2009, 09:28 PM']Not really - and I did try. [/quote] Gotcha.... Reread it, and yeah not clear..... OK in a straight feel you've got this:- [font="Lucida Console"]1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & |[/font] In a swing feel you've got this:- [font="Lucida Console"]1-trip let 2-trip let 3-trip let 4-trip let |[/font] Where 1-trip are tied together. To play this effectively at any given tempo you must be comfortable actually playing straight at the tempo of the 2nd quaver ( let in the above) straight. Otherwise you'll struggle and feel rushed, and sound rushed. Does that help???

Oh I'm sure you're right, but I mean I loathe that vocal tossery and if I listened to enough of that track to get into the groove I'd have to throw my lappie out the window in a rage, so I'll ignore it as the nonsense it is...

[quote name='Toasted' post='456134' date='Apr 7 2009, 09:14 AM']Stop posting pictures, dammit. *I am perfectly happy with my HS410* *I am perfectly happy with my HS410* *I am perfectly happy with my HS410* *I am perfectly happy with my HS410* *I am perfectly happy with my HS410* *I am perfectly happy with my HS410* *I am perfectly happy with my HS410* *I am perfectly happy with my HS410* *I am perfectly happy with my HS410* *I am perfectly happy with my HS410* *I am perfectly happy with my HS410* *I am perfectly happy with my HS410* *I am perfectly happy with my HS410* *I am perfectly happy with my HS410*[/quote] You know you are, the HS410 will knock a wall down, dont be so silly!

oooohhhhhhh yuuuuuuuummmmyyyy

Sorry but that tuner is really a gimmick. Anyone blowing half a grand on a wireless will pop 120 on a 'proper' rack tuner that you can see from half a mile away....

Eerrrrr I'm dead spoiled then 2 x Alesis HD24 (Controlled of a RBC I believe) Mackie 32:8 plus 24:8 extension (only gets used for play back really) Focusrite Octopre (mk1) to limit all 8 drum tracks 2 channels for bass (DI and mic) 2 channels for guitar (1 is clean in case we want to 'redo' the guitar tone in the line6 pro) 3 channels for hammond 1 channel for vox A huge selection of yummy channel strips to pick and choose from (focusrite green channel strip, trakmaster, joe meek twinq, and some others that slip my mind) And that would make our rehearsals the same as our recording anything, except we have to work really hard to get decent seperation of the kit cos the live room is the front room of a house. Need to figure out how to do that - suggestions on a postcard! If we want to get serious we overdub whatever we need to, import it all into protools on the big beastie mac and have virtually unlimited everything. We can even swap the drums out wholesale for any kit in BFD2 now (apparently) - which may make some stuff a tad easier.... The whole lot is permanently set up so I dont even take my bass rig, I use the drummers Eden rig - which is, you know, OK Sorry (I feel kind of guilty about this). I do want an HD4 for recording gigs though, since bringing the whole studio isnt viable.... In 20 years of recording I've never heard anything that made me think - should have used 24 bit - and I was working in a studio when the prototype 196KHz 24bit systems were being touted as (and I quote) 'As good as 2" reel to reel'.... We routinely use 24bit cos its the drummers' studio and he likes to fill up hard drives (I think). In all seriousness there is theoretical good reasoning behind what Alex says, but when all is said and done there's nothing in it once the mastering is complete and someone has squashed it down to about a 4 bit dynamic range.

Cant abide all that modern R'n'B warbling vocal gymnastic rubbish myself. Funk is simpler vocally, good chanting sing a long a protesty goodness. MMMMMMMmmmmmmmyeah baby! Sorry for the derail....

Timing is best worked at slow, slower slowest. Thats where it is hard to be totally spot on. Spend an hour or two at 40bpm, then try grooving at 100bpm. You [b]will[/b] be much more accurate. On the other hand, 'stretchy' time (swingyness) between crotchets requires you to be absolutely comfortable playing straight at the tempo of the quick part of the swing. For instance if you are swinging then the second quaver is actually as long as a triplet, thats significantly quicker than straight time, and to swing comfortably you need to be very happy at the straight tempo of that shorter quaver. Not really explaining this too well I know, did anyone follow what I meant?

Personally, I dont think learning the drums (and I've done a bit of this) will help anywhere near as much as learning a counter rhythmic percussion instrument. Drums lay it down and groove, bass can either work that same pattern - more rock/punk/jazz (albeit swung) - or work around and through it (more funk) At college we had a percussion class for a term. It was excellent, and really helped me understand counter rhythmic groove options. We used every kind of percussion instrument we could get our hands on and in groups were directed by an excellent drum/percussion teacher. We later got to apply what we learned with our first instruments. Which is where it all came together for me. Totally enhanced my understanding of rhythm and groove, and informed my playing to this day. Since that education I have found that I spend a lot of time working the time between each quarter note, to impart as much swing/groove as is required, I rarely follow the drummers lead exactly. That and an understanding of how 'stretchy' that time between crotchets is in terms of push/pull and swing is what creates groove. IMO etc etc

Quite a bit of The Meters stuff is in a blues(ish) form in fact, and it dont get any funkier! Dr John (Right Place Wrong Time) is close (no 5 chord IIRC), in fact any New Orleans blues is so funky it hurts, although rarely a 12 bar it still definitely got a blues thing going on.

If I'm recording my own stuff I definitely listen to it in near isolation - cos I like to know its right. But thats the advantage of doing things in your own time. A lot of this is actually recorded to a budget/deadline, so that kind of thing goes out in favour of the right feel and 'did it go ok for you?' In fact the only time I have heard of people really scrutinising individual tracks in isolation was Stu Hamm being pulled apart when recording for Steve Vai (a bar at a time apparently) - but then Vai was never into groove above precision I guess (and he's clearly a twerp!) This stuff is fascinating, but seems to miss out on something important, and that is what was done to the raw track during mixdown, ie gating out rubbish, and any other clean up that might have occured.... ....cos these sound like raw raw tracks to me! Still a great resource, and Flea is seriously tight sounding in Give It Away, superb groove that (wish I'd come up with it!)

Its a completely different beast now to ten or more years ago - understandable really I only deal in person with them, and they will still be pushed to a cracking deal if you have the right ammo (somewhere else selling much cheaper) No idea what they are like online though

Thanks for the replies. Yes its understood that ideally a real one is the answer - but we dont (no really) have space to store it, and I think cutting it in half to fit it in the car may well result in a detrimetal tonal result! Looked at the wav 4 - was hoping that would be the one to move up to though! Although people do sniff at EUBs, as a practice tool, and to give him something to really get his teeth into I think that given our circumstances (available space, loonie 4 1/2 year old travelling at high speed all day with complete reckless abandon) its the best we can do for him. Its a shame that the Stagg isnt up to it, they are right in the available funds slot....