51m0n

[quote name='Mr.T' post='372653' date='Jan 7 2009, 12:24 AM']Yep, that makes sense. On my old Trace I dropped out about 2 notches of mids (about 6db?)... any more and it would sound great solo but get 'lost' with the band. I am not sure how much gets cut on the SA450 at 10 o'clock on the VPF filter, but I have a feeling it was more. My bass has a pretty powerful EQ, so I am not overly worried about gigging with my new rig... although a run through at rehearsal would have been nice as I like to concentrate on my playing at gigs, not my sound. I used Trace for about 20 years, so was always dialed in by the end of the first tune.[/quote] Generally speaking setting the filters over 9 O clock is getting into overkill territory (yup I mean 9 O clock, dey is powerful juju!). Thats both IMO & IME and also judging by the vast majority of posts on TB (esp by KJung who knows his stuff). Might sound OK on its own but as soon as you go into a band setting you'll struggle. The only exception to this IME is if you are going for a really old skewl tone and want to knock off more top (more VLE), but then you are going to be even more reliant on the mids to get heard. Just a guide....

[quote name='Merton' post='361763' date='Dec 23 2008, 10:25 AM']The N8 is a great practice amp, but that is all. Not enough power for gigs IME.[/quote] +1

sa450 here, into an ae410 (tweeter set at about 25% to 30%), everything pretty much flat, except if I'm going for all kinds of bridge pup burp, in which case I generally add either some lo-mid at around 100Hz or some lo (centered at 40Hz). I've played with the filters verses the eq and at the end of the day with my rig it does all sound good (guess thats why I'm broke ), just as people have said using VPF tends to bury you in the mix a bit more, and VLE above 9 O'clock is too far from what I want to hear. Big caveat is obviously that if the room sounds poo then you could be twiddling them knobs till dawn and you wont fix it with any of the eq available on those amps. My BP-8 has a programmeable sweepable notch filter you set up once, just put it in that mode and sweep the expression pedal till the boom drops out of the room), its can really help with a room that has dreadful acoustic boom. Best thing about it, wish someone would make a floorstanding unit to do just that though!

If you want to get some acoustic control happening in that nice big live room, after bass traps a really good idea is floor to ceiling bookshelves filled with varying sized books on the biggest wall, it really soaks up alot of reverb in a vaery natural way and is often much cheaper than a full set of diffusers etc etc. The many varying sizes of book is the important bit! Seen this done in a fair few studios with decent sized live rooms, the before and after effect is really amazing!

OK, I admit it, I am probably responsible for making Alex go through the crossover redesign. Sorry Alex He lent me his Big One (ooo-er) to try out before xmas and I found it to have a peak around 1KHz to my ears. Not trying to detract from it at all chaps, I was comparing it to my ae410 and using my sa450 flat (just switching the speakon from one to the other) and found that a dip of several dB was required at around 1KHz on the (not very scientifically marked) sa450 to lessen the peak there, it was just way too bright for my ears. Once the mid peak was eq-ed out it is a phenominal sounding cab IMO, and I couldnt stress it out for want of trying (oh how my neighbours enjoyed that afternoon!). It does go very deep, it is stupidly light for such a loud thing, and it will be worth the money IMO. It doesnt do zing a la a really good tweeter/crossover (like the ae410 and not a lot else). It isnt really designed to I think, but it does offer immense articulation and no super bright tweeter hell (err Eden anyone). Turns out that Alex took my thoughts on the chin, and went off to get hold of a bunch of better test equiptment to figure out what was going on. Proper engineer stylee! I didn't post before because I didnt know what Alex intended to do about it - I didnt expect a full on crossover redesign but thats what Alex has decided is necessary to alleviate the issue. In fairness Alex goes for a very full deep sound with muddy skanky old strings (yuck!) etc, I am a polar opposite, I like it all super punchy and so have much much newer strings, this meant that Alex didnt hear this peak and I did. Since he is designing this as a cab for anyone not just himself I think its really impressive that he has taken a step back, redesigned his crossover and added some toggles to allow the built in mid presence to shine if it helps you achieve your tone goal (more likely because he likes it himself I reckon!). I hope to get another listen once the crossover is rebuilt! He also mentioned testing the ae410 to see why its so good, we'll see about doing that later in the year maybe (when the weather wont freeze me solid whilst he assaults my cab with pink noise and test mics).

Got one on of these from Coda and the EQ was faulty Lots of crackley nonsense and dropouts/thuds whenever the pots were sweeped, initially thought it was dirt but it got worse, rather than better with lots of sweepage. Waiting for a replacement. It was supposed to be a crimbo pressy for my son so not too pleased really! What I heard was very loud and clean though, should be really nice as a first 'proper' amp.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='352882' date='Dec 12 2008, 04:36 PM']Or maybe you're just a nutter! I should have added a caveat regarding tapping - I'd forgetten it exists... It would be interesting to hear other examples of where compression works an an effective tool in a live situation (other than for bodging a fix for my nemesis 'Mr Poor Dynamics'). Alex[/quote] Well tapping does in fact exist, and in the case of a rock track with a mix of fingerstyle and tapping where you dont want the fingerstyle to be buried a well set up compressor can do absolute wonders - honest! Especially live as you cant ride faders like you can in a studio (well thats what compressors were designed to deal with anyway). I've experienced this, I used to play in a pretty fast avante garde rock/punk/funk band and we did a track with a ridiculously fast ostinato for the verse b-line that was tapped that went into a fingerstyle chorus. The band comprised of two drummers (one was more of a percussionist, but tended to use a lot of found percussion including an oil drum and aluminium base ball bat ) , two guitarists, and a singer/flutist lady. It was very very very loud, and very fast, and the dynamics were 'loud', 'louder', 'loudest known thing in the universe'. The only way to get the tapping part to work was using some compression, otherwise it just disappeared. I've got a very poor recording of a gig in about '96 at the Concorde (I) in Brighton somewhere. If I can find it I'll try and figure out how to post a bit (unless it is too dreadful to admit too ) Its pretty in your face stuff though!

I disagree Alex. I have pretty good technique - not the best but I dont have the time I once had. Dynamics are no problem, however I like to use alot of different techniques in the same groove/song etc, and certain techniques, no matter how strong your hands are, are quieter than others. For instance if you go from slapping to tapping to fingerstyle, the tapping is almost guaranteed to appear quietest, part of it is the fact you struggle to generate the same amount of string movement, and part of it is the nature of the envelope of the sound - the attack is nowhere near as great, so there is a psychoacoustic part to this as well. A well set up compressor can even this out just enough for you live to always be heard in a mix without destroying your dynamics, even a cheap old two knob DOD compressor will manage that. Compressors will also allow you to modify the envelope to a certain extent bringing out the attack of the tapping more. Followed by a limiter you can prevent the greater attack of the more ferocius techniques (slapping etc) from totally overpowering everything. Getting a compressor set up just right to cover this gamut of techiques is a proper tricky task if you rely on it too much, but if you take the approach that its to help you, and you practice largely without the crutch it can seriously help get the message across to an audience... Maybe I'm just a nutter for using such disparate techniques in a single groove though

In answer to the OP, if you are in anyway using overdrive then the compressor may be unnesessary since overdrive itself compresses dynamics. On the other hand a really good compressor set up well for the player/song/style can really help either to level the output or to thicken up and add gobs of puch - entirely dependant on settings. Otherwise they wouldnt get used in studios. Live is the same deal, used as an effect to add plenty of grunt you cant quite get that sound with eq or overdrive, used as a leveler you might well find you are helping out FOH, but the reasons for FOH compressing bass apply equally to stage volumes. As for the speed you play making a compressor not work, thats just not the right speed of attack and release on the comp, a lot of pedal comps take a very average view of these settings in an effort to minimise the amount of controls, but frankly that just means that unless you play 'average' you arent going to get what you want from the pedal IMO and IME. I recently got hold of a Focusrite Compounder for £150 inc P&P, and its a ridiculously good bit of kit for that money. I guarantee it could be set up to add masses of punch or just level out your signal a bit, regardless of how fast you're picking. Of course the downside its you need to know what you are doing to get it set up right....

Play lighter and turn your amp up....

Yeah thats what I said to ALex when he told me too You are in for quite a journey getting that down mate you really are!!!!! Best of luck with it though :wacko:

NWR is the British Rocco Prestia IMO, then again in alot of ways the Blockheads are are very British take on the whole Tower of Power sound. TOP have the more overtly astounding horn section - not detracting from the Blockheads at all, they are fantastic too! - But I like the more laid back Blockheads rhythm section feel more. But I really do rate NWR on form as every bit as good as Rocco - who is about as funky as fingerstyle can get IMO.... And yeah I've been working on this forever, on a really good day my version sounds pretty spot on to my ears, on an average day I despair though I use a slightly different fingering to DK though (staying up high for the whole verse bit rather than wanderign around as much), dont know which is better, do know he plays it brilliantly tho. Swine

Whats the fan noise like - it looks like there are two of the little blighters in that there empty cavenous resonant box after all! Very interested in one of these for my youngster now. alexclaber, how would this pair up with your cabs do you think?

My bass is on a wall hanger by the bed. I have two kids (4 and 14) and the elder is a bassist and violininst. He gets to practice a lot more than me! I find practicing very calming, but rarely get to do more than grab 5 or 10 mins whenever I get a chance to stand by my bass. Helps stop me go totally rusty. My partner loves having me play bass, I just rarely get to plug it in (its a PIA to set my rig up for anything less than a full practice session IMO) A long time ago practicing and not being able to get something right used to drive me into a rage, now I'm just happy to be playing!

[quote name='Sean' post='274745' date='Sep 1 2008, 05:12 PM']As a more flexible alternative consider using two AE210 cabs, that way you get a modular 4x10 effectively and the convenience of just taking one cab for some gigs and having the full stack for larger ones. This is of course a more expensive alternative but it's so easy to shift and an LMK through one 2x10 is loud enough for most situations but through two it's bonkers. Another added advantage (for me at least, being lazy) is that with the amp on top of the two 2x10s stacked it's higher than on a single 4x10 making it easier to see/adjust whilst standing. I get my 4x10 fix when I want it and I get the convenience of a compact rig when I need that. The Bergantino AE range doesn't have carpet covering, instead it has a sprayed-on tough polymer textured coating and they'll look better longer and won't pick up every single dog hair on planet earth. I just can't bear that bobbled stuff that comes on carpetted cabs, it reminds me of awful knitwear I was forced to wear as a child in the '80s. :blush:[/quote] +1 if you have the cash. The ae210 is phenomial. Just turned out that for me the 410 fit in my car and saved me some dosh Either way you cant lose with the berg ae stuff. It used to be seriously expensive boutique only, but now MB cabs are more expensive I dont think that applies so much! The tough covering is most definitely not impervious IME however. But it does look nice and Jim B and Mark are getting me a touch up kit and metal corners.

The markup over the US price (allowing for say £20 extra for shipping and for 17.5% VAT) is about £170. So they can stick any idea of me buying one up their proverbial. Something tells me I'll never hear one or play with one either. No retailer in hos right mind will ever stock one since obviously no one will ever buy one at that price, especially considewring how much cheaper they are in the USA. It should be retailing here for about £250 if they want to stir up real sales and interest. Obviously they dont want to do that.

+1 for bergs. The ae210 is about 12" deep, so will almost certainly fot (its 8 ohm, though). the ae410 is ridiculously small for a full on 410, but fits in the boot of my 3 series, it just might fit in the back of a corsa....

I would haeartily recommend checking out the Berg AE410 (Mark @ bass direct again), since it sounds amazing and as far as I can tell is about the same price as the MB 410 cabs now. It is a bit heavier but is a stunning box.

[quote name='Mr Fudge' post='253921' date='Aug 3 2008, 08:55 PM']Both my balls are very, very purple.[/quote] Mine went almost black - lasted for over two weeks. Oooooouch!

[quote name='Matty' post='252821' date='Aug 1 2008, 03:03 PM']I think he used an old Mutron3 for most of his stuff.[/quote] Yeah and about two tonnes of other stuff, plus he ran 3 of them from different pickup outputs etc etc. Good luck ever trying to cop the whole Bootsy tone!

Holy cow! Hadnt seen this either, that could be the bog's dollocks! Like the even/odd harmonic generation and sweep eq + Q stuff.