51m0n

Completely agree with you the ae410 is great in a busy mix if you need to poke through. I want to be sitting under everything a bit more though, and it can't quite manage that.

Get them both - simples...

Some of you may know my rig for the last few years, a Markbass sa450 into a Berg ae410. Its been at the SE Bass Bash enough times! And its absolutely class, that 410 is in my opinion the best sounding punchy 410 ever made. However what it doesnt do so well is get right under a band - it just pokes straight through the mix clear as a bell, always. My band now have a keyboardist and guitarist whose rhythm work is intricately funky, playing off each other and around each other in a fantastic way. The sound is compelling, but quite busy, and I've become increasingly aware that I am often detracting somewhat by not being under them enough tonally, and my amp/cab combination can't quite get the tone I want in that regard. So after loving the Barefaced output for years (I helped Alex a bit with the original Big One) and banging on about it ad nauseum to people (here and elsewhere) I've finally put my money where my mouth is and am picking up a Big Twin gen III this afternoon from Alex I tried one at a rehearsal last week to be sure it was what I wanted and it delivered that piece of the puzzle that I was missing, in spades, real depth, an ability to pile on eq without break up at full gig volumes (not that I'd need that much but its good to know the cab handles it) and a wider freuquency response than the Berg, giving a better sense of where the fundamental is. Its a really good match up with my Roscoe (Century Standard 5 strung with Elixirs) which is again tonally pretty tight in the bass, so nothing seems to get woolly down there, just deep and clear. The low B has never sounded so good! The other interesting point is that this cab is more sensitive than the Berg, so at like for like volume/gain settings it pushes more air, or certainly seems to. Not that the Berg is a quiet or insensitive cab, its very loud, just the Big Twin makes those precious watts go even further.... All that is no surprise to me, physics is physics, the Big Twin is a significantly larger cab, being driven with very modern and exceptional drivers that go the extra mile, the ae410 cant hope to deliver as much deep low end as the Big Twin III, but its still a beautiful sounding cab with an absolutely gorgeous tone. Not sure what will become of the ae410, but I think its days are very numbered

What is the latency like on these cheaper digital solutions??

[quote name='Skybone' timestamp='1439988929' post='2847292'] What I used to do if one of the guitar tracks was sounding a bit "weak" was copy it onto another track, so you're basically "double tracking" it. Pan one channel slightly left, the other slightly right. [/quote] All this is actually doing is turning the track up by about 6dB. Its not the same as double tracking at all because there are no microscopic differences in timing and pitch which you get with true double tracking (and what gives it the big sound). If you can find a delay which can have its delay time modulated slightly (easy in Reaper), set it to 3 or 4ms delay and the modulation at between 0ms and 6ms over half a second to a second, slip the copied track early by 3ms and output the wet only on the copied track, then you get something closer to real double tracking....

No compromise - except they got rid of the metering 😠

Wow!

Firstly always record in 24bit - the headroom is more than your device's analogue headroom. Then routinely track (record) with at least 6dB of headroom above the highest peak you see. When tracking drums I routinely leave 8 to 12dB because drummers can easily get over excited and the volume difference can be crazy - same with bass). That way you can be sure you aren#t pushing the analogue side of the device too hard, or even close to clipping. Most cheaper devices have pretty average (at best) mic pres and input circuitry in general, you do not want to get close to overloading them at all, and you don't want them to adversely effect any transients. Then in your DAW use either a gain plugin in and/or some compression or whatever else you feel you need to tame dynamic range and bring the level up on your terms. I guarantee your mixes will sound better just working this way.....

[quote name='mingsta' timestamp='1439100156' post='2839899'] Thanks for the input so far guys. Btw my budget is 800-1000 for the pair. [/quote] Oops....

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1439080254' post='2839879'] Is that a pair or each? [/quote] Each....

Barefaced FR800 800w retails at £1000 great full range speaker, will handle kick easily, sounds superb, weights pants all Should be very high on your list....

Yeah jealous now!!!

Pride in Brighton on Saturday, we played the Worlds End on the route back into town from the park where they have the main celebrations. We had a dep drummer, but he's ace, I've played with him in many other projects, so that was fine. Venue was heaving with sweaty punters having a ball to our material, made a huge impression, got inundated with positive comments, and even had a minor pitch invasion at one point. Were compared to Sly and the Family Stone, Parliament and the Meters by different people talking I guess about different parts of the sets I guess. Lots and lots of love coming our way all evening Venue were chuffed to bits, when we started up there were 20 people in there and a stream of people walking past, when we finished the third track of the first set the place was rammed with people who decided to see what all the fuss was about, ten minutes after we finished the second set (2 and a half hours later) the crowd started dispersing, so we were pretty obviously a decent draw for the evening

I use my 4n internak mics as a drum OH, and use a pair of Line Audio CM3s in the room as a stereo pair. In the mix down there is not much of the OH, I get amazing results because the CM3 is a very very wide cardio and the band are broadly arranged in a circle Mic placement is critical as are room levels.

No it doesn't I record with 4 tracks every rehearsal. They are two stereo pairs in that you set level on the internal mics as a pair and the external mics as a pair. But recording at 24 bit means that pretty irrelevant for the external mics, I separate the stereo wav and treat them independently if that is needed. Results are frankly top drawer...

At least a half of my band's set is not quite repeating structures up to 13 minutes long each. Takes me ages to learn some of them so that I don't get lost, and then we usually tweak them so its back to the beginning

Nice one! |Roy Budd is criminally underated, The Marseille COntract theme is awesome! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ute99FPI-s8

The theme from Knight Rider

Exactly what looks dated about a properly set up 1x12 + tweeter cab with 800w power amp built in that you can easily lift above your head one handed?? Cost is about a grand a cab, most bands would be more than adequately served with just two FR800s imo, the 4 cab solution really was overkill! I didn't get any pictures but I'll ask the band if anyone else did.... I thought they looked fine, I've never had a punter say anything about how a pa looked, but several including the landlord said the sound was incredibly good....

Alex said to me that floor wedges wont happen because they'd be prohibitively expensive I'm afraid.... Double PIA since we blew one of our monitors on the night!

Only time I've ever listened to a word come out of his mouth and didnt think "twunt", shows him in a rather different light actually... Still can't staand Oasis though

On Saturday we had the pleasure of playing The Half Moon in Heathfield, lovely venue, super people, amazing party atmosphere, we were asked back, very memorable evening, blah blah blah... What was really unexpected was to be able to take the latest Barefaced PA rig out to give it a go. This consists of two FR800 cabs and two LR800s - you could daisy chain more if you wanted I guess, but I'm not sure why any band carting their own PA would need to. The FR800s have a tweeter, the LH800s don't, each has an 800w amp built in and DSP to fine tune the audio on the way in to maximise each cab's potential. The LH800s are not subs though, they just help ou the FR800s in the low end to low mids, they push a lot higher than subs do. Thats a 3.2K rig, that one person can easily carry in two trips(!!!!), that fits into a standard saloon car easily. I made sure I had a huge collection of classic funk and soundtrack material on hand to play before and after the band, firstly because thats always a good idea, but also because I wanted to hear the PA and tune it. On the back of each cab there is a recessed button that cycles between four different DSP settings, with different level and eq curves so you can match the PA to the venue. HAving a little play I settled settings that sounded really balanced to my ear and then cranked the PA up to about two thirds of its potential and went for a walk out front. First things first, two thirds of this PAs potential is massively loud, just huge power, easily enough for a very very large pub, or a small hall, we were oputside in a marquee, in the middle of no where so I got away wiuth being very fast and loose with the power when I went for a listen. Most of the PAs I have used - because the subs concentrate so hard on very low bass - are very thumpy, and lack low mid definition, right where the bass should be - subsequently there is little pitch info in the bass but masses of power in the kick drum. And we all hate the kick drum being the super dominant part of what we hear don't we! This PA is very different - its a truly full range and sound ridiculously precise throughout the frequency range - think brilliant hifi or fabulous monitors that can go dangeroulsy loud without crapping out and ruining the sound. They handled everything from Bootsy's mid 90's Keep That Funk Alive (really heavy bass in this) to Ennio Moriconne's Good The Bad and The Ugly, and Roy Budd's Get Carter Theme (the heavy drum mix version), the sound was just compelling, and really beautiful. They certianly go deep where the material is deep, but they dont overlay a huge eq curve on the sound to make everything deep at the expense of clarity. They just sound brilliant. Needless to say chucking the band through them was equally enjoyable, they didnt disappoint at all. the Kick drum was very tight and punchy, but extended deep enough to have 'weight' and power, but never overwhelmed the bass (yes I snuck some bass in the mix - you'd be mad not too!) which sounded glorious. The guitar and keys balanced beautifully without ever competing, and the horns just filled in the gaps with the trumpet sitting over everything perfectly. The contrast with the monitors we had (all ancient tech) could not be more clear, they struggled to throw enough sound into the stage, they weighed a tonne, were bigger than the Barefaced and came with an enormously heavy power amp to drive them - not ideal! And we blew our wedge monitor when it didnt cope with a sustained low bass trombone note in a quiet section. The cone just crapped out IF you are looking for a seriously capable PA that fits into a small space, is unbelievalby transportable, and sounds simply breathtaking, then start saving, this one is (for me) a game changer for band owned PAs....

Saturday at The Half Moon in Heathfield. They put on a really great evening, theming the menu (Soul food night - really smelled amazing, didnt have time to eat any though) to match the band (Mister Super Juice - we play cinematic funk). I got to use the new Barefaced PA (huge thanks to ALex and Bobby for suggesting it, and helping out), a pair of FR800s and a pair of LF800s, so thats 3.2K out front - which was massive overkill due to the weather being a bit grimmer than we'd hoped for and the sides of the marquee staying down. Amazing FOH though, these cabs are relatively small considering they are very full range, and just absurdly light - literally throwable (not that we did) - which you would expect for Barefaced, but the surprise is each cab has its own 800w amp built in and DSP tailored to the cab/crossover/drivers combination to maximise the potential and minimise the risk of damage - think Bergantino IP series. I've run a lot of PAs, some pretty big and many smaller, and I've heard literally thousands, and this is honestly the best PA I've ever heard, but I'm not super keen on massive bowel rearranging low end kick beats (I'm sure it could do it, if you put that sound into it, it just doesnt over power the low end if you dont need to). Playing a vast collection of funk and soundtrack music through it during the break and before and after the band sets the overriding sense was, this is what really nice hifi/monitors sound like, but 100x louder. Awe inspiring detail and clarity, amazing stereo image, lovely tone. They arent cheap, but as an easy solution for any band to sounding utterly superb, they are currently unbeatable. I could fit the entire FOH and my bass rig into my clapped out old 3 series Beemer for crying out loud!!! Totally GAS inducing gear, the band kitty has a new goal.... As for the gig, well first off the people of Heathfield were utterly lovely, the pub is beautiful, food was brilliant, the backdrop (a view all the way to the sea across fields) was breathtaking, and they really know how to have a party!!! We had the first full on dance off we've ever seen develop in the second set, two groups taking it in turns to shake a leg, all in the best spirit possible, whilst we pumped out the funky stuff for them, only topped off by a gentleman appearing through the crowd in full WIlly the Pimp get up to quite literally steal the show! Such a brilliant party atmosphere, wont forget that one in a hurry, and we were asked back at the soonest convenient time. Result!!

It'd be the band I'm in now, but with all of us having a lot more spare time to devote to it, for gigs, recording and writing. I spent ten years thinking about this band as a concept and on the look out for people to make this kind of music with me, now its happening and we are getting some really great gigs, allbeit small venues, but incredibly well received nonethelessm, why would I prefer to be in someone elses band which isnt the one I'm as passionate about??

You can't beat this, the problem is squarely at their door. So just cut your losses before tehy include any more of your hearing....